You are right Steve; you are in the democratic majority.
That the Tesla Model S styling has merit-based prestige, and that the 4LS's regular rectangular tail lights are stylish, while the S Class' irregular polygonal lights are bland - is most probably in the democratic minority - if we ever did a survey.
However, Burnsie is entitled to an opinion; let the man have his say...

 

Who said he wasn't entitled to an opinion? I however also am entitled to an opinion and we're discussing our opinions...which is the point of the forum.

Personally I think the rear end of the S Class looks great.

 

You keep telling all of us how good your negotiating skills are. Maybe you could get one down at least near near 90K. But, even though I'm not impressed with its sheet metal/door-solidness, much of the rest of this car just may be worth 100K.

 

I agree with you Steve; I think the S Class looks great too.
We're all entitled to an opinion, but we must also be careful not to quote Mr Burn's opinion negatively.
I don't agree with Mr Burn's opinions on S Class vs LS styling, but I let him have his say, without negatively quoting him.

 

You can get $15-20k off of one without much effort, but when we discuss pricing we discuss MSRP. Thin metals are to save weight, you won't find a car today that has metal as thick as what we used to have on cars. Want proof of that? Try to sit on the hood of any modern car. As far as door solidness, I've not shut a door that feels more solid on any modern car so I don't know what the issue is.

Just to comment on "my negotiation skills". The only person who talks about "how good my negotiation skills are" is you, I don't recall ever bragging about my negotiating ability, it consists of emailing 3-4 dealers for price quotes...not difficult nor does it require any skill.

 

Actually, IMO, the Genesis G90 and G80 that you like have more solid-feeling doors than the S-Class....but, of course, underneath the skin, cannot compete with the chassis, ride-comfort, and sophistication of the S-class. There's a reason it costs 100K.

 

i've removed all unrelated discussion about negotiation... please keep the thread on topic.

 

I never tested the G80/G90 doors but I would have a hard time believing that their doors feel more solid than the S class (or even C class) for that matter. I know most Mercedes models use aluminum for the sheetmetal so I wonder if that is the difference.

 

The 2013-20 S Class' new MRA platform features aluminium doors, with near 50% aluminium content in the body structure.
It will be interesting if Mike could test the solidity of the new Lexus LC coupe at his local Lexus dealership, because the new TNGA GA-L platform for the LC coupe also has aluminium doors skins on the outside, but carbon fiber framework on the inside of the doors.

 

I personally didn't feel any issue with the solidity of the S Class' doors.

 

No, they dont bother me either. I'm more concerned with the sound of the clunk than the "solidity" of the door. I dont know how I would perceive solidity. Is it weight? Do you knock on the sheetmetal? lol

 

that's probably an outdated way to test the solidity of vehicles, does not mean that they are less "safe" and solid because of the sound and weight I think.

When I was a kid, I remember old folks praising Volvo doors being the most thick, heavy and solid in feel, as in thick heavy steel, even more so than Mercedes. Cars are no longer built with the same design & materials of yester years. I wonder how you compare present Volvo sheet metal to those old Volvo's, I have not touched one for like 20 years lol ...

 

I've got an LC review planned.

 

Not sure about the Canadian market where you live, but all new American-market vehicles, for decades, regardless of the actual strength and solidity of the sheet metal itself, have required side-beams built into the doors. Most cars in the last 15 years or so have also added side-impact air bags, built into the doors or seats.



So, I agree that thin sheet metal itself is not necessarily a sign of flimsiness or lack of protection in an accident, but it can feel and sound tinny and unpleasant as the doors are shut. And, customer research has shown that door-closings are something that customers tend to notice, though some automakers still don't place a whole lot of emphasis on it.

Probably the most solid-closing doors I've seen are on the Mercedes G-Wagon (Gelandewagen)....but, unlike other Mercedes products today, the G-Wagon, structurally, is a 35-year-old design originally built for the German and Austrian militaries....so it adheres to much tougher military specs.

 

My first three cars were Volvos (when I was 19+). As I recall how the story goes, they had 4 wheel discs in 1975, 3 point safety belts in the year since 1973, but the funny thing is nothing changed from 75 to 93. Hence, the 240 Classic which got sunset'd in 1993 as could not meet the new standards (um how about improving it so it could). I can't think of a better example of a car co. resting on its laurels for decades. They're still trying to play that image today.

I would say ask a PDR man what solid is. On a solid car, he can perform miracles. (hint look at the exterior dimensions of a 335i and a LS430, the latter weighs only 401 lbs. more, wonder how that could be)