peteharvey

I'm not so sure Steve.
Once again, it's the entry level front wheel drive luxury ES factor.

In its final years, the ES is selling about 60,000 units/year in the US, while the GS is selling about 15,000 units/year making combined Lexus midsize luxury sedan sales around 75,000 units/year.
Thus entry level luxury Hyundai Genesis G80's 30,000 units/year is well behind.

Meanwhile the all new entry level full size luxury G90 is well behind aging 4.5LS sales on its 9th and final year if I'm not wrong.

Genesis is doing okay, but I'm not sure if they are doing brilliantly well.
Back in 1989, Lexus matched the Europeans and set new benchmarks in refinement.
Genesis is not really setting any new benchmarks.
Lexus was bland, but Genesis is even blander, while being cheaper looking.
However, I do notice that Genesis are often 1/2 a size bigger than the benchmark, but there really is no brilliance to being oversized and overweight with higher fuel consumption.
_

mmarshall

30K units a year s not bad if you consider that the G80 was only introduced a year ago, at least in Genesis form..and that did not include the units sold earlier under the 2Gen Hyundai Genesis nameplate.


That weight on the G80, like the weight on the Verano and the other smaller Opel-derived Buicks, comes from solid components/hardware and a durable basic platform.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

congrats! I am wondering why it became available with just 2.7k miles on it.

Mr. Burns

The Lexus LS500 absolutely blows away the G90, if you're going with the G90 it's not because it's better, it's because you don't want to spend 90k. At that point you are not the same buyer as a Lexus buyer, and Lexus has nothing to worry about.

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Tesla is what keeps the Germans awake at night. Genesis is an also ran.
LS is closing in on its 10th year at the heel of a new model. The LS500 will destroy G90 sales. Heck Lexus outsold the G90 with the 90k+ LC500 coupe in may, let alone the sedan.

G90 will hit 200 units/mo in its second year, mark it.

But Lexus screwed up a bit too, the LS should have an all electric variant to go after the Model S, that's the future.

SW17LS

I don't have a problem spending $90,000, if I spend that though I'm just not going to buy a Lexus.

Mr. Burns

If you intend to spend it on the better car, it will be the LS500 over the G90.

peteharvey

If I remember correctly, in 2016 Hyundai sold around 23,000 Hyundai Genesis plus around 6,000 Genesis G80's.
That's a total of 29,000 Hyundai Genesis/G80's to 75,000 Lexus ES/GS's.

On 2nd thoughts, the size & weight of the Hyundai Genesis G80 is about right.
It is the current aging 4GS that's become a bit small relative to its new model competitors.
Over the years, Corollas have grown from subcompact to compact.
Camries have grown from compact to midsize.
2018 5LS now comes in long wheelbase only.
It's only just as well that 2019 5GS ups the wheelbase by at least 4", while controlling the weight with part aluminium chassis.

SW17LS

But the G90 doesn't cost $90,000, it costs $20,000 less than that, and that's the V8 G90 vs a V6 LS500, and an LS500 I don't love the look of. Don't love the look of the G90 either, but I love the look of my $20k saved. Spending $90,000+ opens up a lot of other options that are more fulfilling as a luxury purchase IMHO.

"Better" is relative. The S550 was a better car than my LS460 when I bought it, but I don't have an S550 because it would have cost me $20k+ more.

Toys4RJill

Completely agree.

Well said, if someone does not want to spend 90K on the LS500, then move on to something else. Lexus wants to charge you more going forward. That is the power and strength of the Lexus brand.

SW17LS

That's the point, I don't know that they have that strength.

Mr. Burns

The LS460 has a few strengths over the S550 that make it sweeter than just a lower price. The G90 doesn't.

The G90 just has the lower price. It's likely a step down in quality if anything.

The LS500 is a next generation product, it's the car the next G90 will benchmark.

Toys4RJill

Not sure I agree that the next generation LS500 is the complete benchmark. Genesis should just try to make their own identity, for the most part it looks as if they are as Lexus moves away from what it once was. I think a $90K price point is a bit to high for them. I certainly view the Genesis brand somewhere between Lincoln, Cadillac and Lexus, but they are closer to Lincoln IMO than they are Lexus.

SW17LS

The only plus the LS460 has over the S550 is reliability. I love my LS460 but a spade is a spade. Only reason I have an LS460 over an S550 is cost.

As for the G90...plus over the LS500 is the V8 and the traditional soft pillowy ride, assuming the LS500 doesn't have that (which I think will prove to be true). Better service concierge and included service is also a plus.

I would also ask if you've driven a G90.

And in any event, cheaper is cheaper. Even if it has no other benefit than just being cheaper, $20,000 is a lot of money lol

Toys4RJill

I do agree. But Lexus is going the hydrogen route (which I agree with) as its essentially an electric car but in a different way. There will be a Lexus LS hydrogen version which I think they are using the Tokyo Olympics to make the debut.

If Genesis scrapped the gas engines for the G90 and had a full blown electric model, we would be talking Tesla, Genesis, then MB/Lexus/BMW in that type of order.

SW17LS

I think the clamor for electric cars is premature. Most people still would never buy an electric car, myself included. No interest in a Tesla.