Emissions Discussion (split from LC500 Thread)
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Emissions Discussion (split from LC500 Thread)
Rimac still has 2 gear transmission at front and back... if you want good performance you will always end up complicating it.
And besides, we did have big Tesla issue thread, their powertrains are pretty failure prone so far. While "complicated" Prius ones are the opposite.
Maybe one day EV's will be the norm, but so far sales are abysmal and except for Tesla they are purely product of large government grants. Even Tesla is popular in many countries due to huge tax breaks (for instance Norway, their 2nd biggest market is reliant on tax breaks that make it cheaper than regular 5 series or A6).
There will have to be some significant development thats not known today in order to change that.
And besides, we did have big Tesla issue thread, their powertrains are pretty failure prone so far. While "complicated" Prius ones are the opposite.
Maybe one day EV's will be the norm, but so far sales are abysmal and except for Tesla they are purely product of large government grants. Even Tesla is popular in many countries due to huge tax breaks (for instance Norway, their 2nd biggest market is reliant on tax breaks that make it cheaper than regular 5 series or A6).
There will have to be some significant development thats not known today in order to change that.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...usaolp00000618
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Emissions Discussion (split form LC500 Thread)
According to Singapore the Tesla is a net upstream polluter due to the amount of Wh/km used by its drive train:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...usaolp00000618
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...usaolp00000618
Last edited by gengar; May 2, 2016 at 11:18 PM.
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That only makes sense if Singapore has next to no renewable power generation, which I think is the case. Most of the electricity there is from coal or gas power plants.
This is totally a non-issue. An S500 pollutes during the production process and for every single inch it moves, not to mention the huge amounts of power needed for hydrocarbon extraction and refining.
There's also pollution when a Model S is made and if it uses electricity from fossil fuels. On the other hand, using solar/wind/hydro power like in northern Europe, the Tesla has very little emissions.
Wheel to well emissions analysis, do read up on it.
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"As for all electric vehicles, a grid emission factor of 0.5 g CO2/Wh was also applied to the electric energy consumption. This is to account for CO2 emissions during the electricity generation process, even if there are no tail-pipe emissions. The equivalent CO2 emission of Mr Nguyen’s car was 222g/km, which is in the CEVS surcharge band," the spokesperson added."
That only makes sense if Singapore has next to no renewable power generation, which I think is the case. Most of the electricity there is from coal or gas power plants.
This is totally a non-issue. An S500 pollutes during the production process and for every single inch it moves, not to mention the huge amounts of power needed for hydrocarbon extraction and refining.
There's also pollution when a Model S is made and if it uses electricity from fossil fuels. On the other hand, using solar/wind/hydro power like in northern Europe, the Tesla has very little emissions.
Well to Wheel [corrected] emissions analysis, do read up on it.
That only makes sense if Singapore has next to no renewable power generation, which I think is the case. Most of the electricity there is from coal or gas power plants.
This is totally a non-issue. An S500 pollutes during the production process and for every single inch it moves, not to mention the huge amounts of power needed for hydrocarbon extraction and refining.
There's also pollution when a Model S is made and if it uses electricity from fossil fuels. On the other hand, using solar/wind/hydro power like in northern Europe, the Tesla has very little emissions.
Well to Wheel [corrected] emissions analysis, do read up on it.
Well (extraction of the raw petroleum or coal to refine to a usable fuel) to wheel emissions is important when considering the total emissions of EVs. The lack of a tailpipe on EVs only affects the micro-environment, not the macro-environment.
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I'm surprised why the Singapore LTA applied that CO2 calculation because it's so one-sided. Singapore is a huge oil refiner and exports refined petrol and diesel to its neighbors. That activity alone produces loads of emissions. Singapore also uses natural gas to generate most of its electricity.
If they're actually doing a well to wheel analysis for EVs, shouldn't the same thing be done for petrol and diesel cars? That S500's CO2 figure could easily double once emissions from transporting and refining crude oil are included.
Norway is an oil producer and refiner but Teslas sell like hotcakes there thanks to generous import duty waivers. I don't see them applying crazy calculations against EVs, they're encouraging EV usage and also building up renewables generation capacity.
If they're actually doing a well to wheel analysis for EVs, shouldn't the same thing be done for petrol and diesel cars? That S500's CO2 figure could easily double once emissions from transporting and refining crude oil are included.
Norway is an oil producer and refiner but Teslas sell like hotcakes there thanks to generous import duty waivers. I don't see them applying crazy calculations against EVs, they're encouraging EV usage and also building up renewables generation capacity.
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To all that focus only on "Singapore" , should instead look at the principle behind the calculation. Yes, electricity generated through clean energy is then cleanly consumed by the Tesla, but how much of the world's electricity is cleanly generated today? Oil production is also dirty business, downstream and upstream. However, only a fraction of today's oil end up as gasoline for passenger vehicles. The majority on the downstream ends up as raw material for industrial/commercial/scientific products and even the fuel ends up being used for heavy duty transportation needs.
Another point. At full capacity, Tesla's new mega-factory will need the world's entire supply of Lithium., couple that with the harmful chemicals, water discharge and other pollutants related to battery production, it becomes clear that battery based EV's don't make sense given current battery technology. Tesla will entrench that technology for generations to come.
Another point. At full capacity, Tesla's new mega-factory will need the world's entire supply of Lithium., couple that with the harmful chemicals, water discharge and other pollutants related to battery production, it becomes clear that battery based EV's don't make sense given current battery technology. Tesla will entrench that technology for generations to come.
Last edited by My0gr81; May 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM.
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Extracting and refining oil will be needed for a long time to sustain our entire technological, industrial and scientific based economy. Way too many products need recycled dinosaurs.
Last edited by My0gr81; May 5, 2016 at 05:46 PM.
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Hydrogen is created from fossil fuels. And that's just the creating is also takes large amounts of electricity to compress the fuel and takes more energy to transfer and store. Not only that the fuel cell car has lithium batteries.
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We are getting way off topic from the LC 500h discussion.
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Yes I do. And by not buying a new car I have not contributed any more carbon output due to the energy used in the manufacturing of a new vehicle. But nice try. 
How many cars have you bought in the last 25 years?
How many cars have you bought in the last 25 years?
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Emissions Discussion (split form LC500 Thread)
Mod: Can we move the environmental discussion posts to a separate dedicated thread?
PS: Full disclosure, I lived in Edmonton well over 20 years, and have done work for some of the oil sands, and power generation companies.
Last edited by My0gr81; May 6, 2016 at 07:13 AM.
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Grid EF as typically calculated isn't "wheel to well", btw. It assumes the grid exists, just as we assume gasoline infrastructure exists so as to focus on the pragmatic, actual polluting unit.
Also - just FYI, the industry most notorious for overstating grid EF? Alternative power and the carbon credit industry. With higher grid EF, alternative energy producers get more CERs. This has been a huge deal in China recently. Anything for money.