Toyota has plenty of money to spend on R&D. VW spends almost double what Toyota does, but they don't make the money/profit of Toyota. They have Lexus selling in good amounts. Maybe mostly down to the RX, but they probably feel there's no need to do big hp cars just for bragging rights against the German makes. How many S63's and S65's do Mercedes sell? And I see an abundance of talk about the lack of the V8. Who here even knows if the V8 LS is dead? Just because they announced the TT V6 doesn't mean it's the only option aside the hybrid.

 

Well said. Some very good points.

 

does anyone imagine what would have happened if bmw only introduced the 740i and mercedes introduced s43 in the very beginning without any v8? i am almost sure the industry (and certainly clublexus) would have had a lot of uproar.

releasing a new car is almost always the best time to get the most traction. 2is350 came out very nicely imho. 3gs300 came out and the 3gs350 came the next year, i don't think anyone can argue that the 3gs350 wasn't able to get as much traction

i am inclined to think the same about the new e class too. e300 has been around for a while and e43 is coming soon. the impact of e43 is discounted somewhat, and people have to keep in mind that since the beginning mb already said there will be a higher power version (in between e300 and e63).

 

When BMW and Mercedes introduced those cars, CAFE and emission standards weren't as strict back then.

 

One thing that came across my mind was that because President Akio Toyoda is now heading the electric vehicles division, their sole focus in now sort of like trying to do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds like the Tesla Model S, and as well as that, times have changed, and we are now in the fuel economy & emissions era, with a 3.5 V6 TT stop gap as the bread and butter model - such that their mind is really not on a V8 TT, though such a model could always be released some time in the future as a halo-only model, because ICE's will still be around for some time yet.

 

To be clear, Lexus does not have a CAFE problem because they are counted alongside Toyota. This engine does not exist because of a CAFE need.

 

In the context of the reply I was making, though, I was referring to why BMW and Mercedes introduced V8 engines in their upper-line models, and CAFE not being as strict back then. (Henry correctly pointed out that there would have been quite a fuss if those cars did not have V8s) And, unlike Toyota, neither one of them could fall back on Prius-MPG figures to pad them.

 

Just to add to this. This is partly why Lexus ICE cars don't need Stop/Start systems like their German equivalents. Why Lexus still gives you a spare tire (even if it's not full size nor a donut), and the rest use run-flat tires, cans of fix-a-flat, or nothing at all. Reducing weight because they can't achieve CAFE ratings.

 

Yet they're still producing new generations of vehicles lower in the lineup totem pole than their flagships with V8's, so clearly it isn't a paramount concern.

 

Not only that, but Europe has tax penalties on simple displacement, but they know the American market and the V8 is targeted towards us more than anyone else. Even with gas prices triple ours, they still produce these things.

Heck, the V12 is still humming along and serves as the true halo for the S, A and 7 series, even though some of their lower V8s offer more HP and are quicker than the V12, like the 600 HP S8 versus the 500 HP A8 W12. It's offered nonetheless because there's some haughty appeal to it and it really raises the entire class of that car a notch just because it is there, even if it doesn't sell well.

Would anyone classify the CT6 in the same class as the S, A or 7 series? That's what this car is becoming...unless of course you do classify that caddy with the others.

 

i think the ct6 is a solid piece of machinery. great effort was clearly put into building the ct6, although i don't think the brand has yet regained their tier-one status. the car (and marque) just don't have the panache that it once had and that the germans currently do now. lexus also has a way to go, although i think that in the north american market at least, lexus is a tier-one marque as well alongside the german three, albeit, again, with a ways to go to level the playing field. thus, i think you're correct in your interpretation.

 

In talking about the caddy, it has 400 HP 3.0 liter V6 twin turbo. It also has a claimed time of 5.3 seconds to 60, 0.1 second faster than the existing LS with 386 HP.

Kind of makes you wonder about the claimed 4.5 second time of the 415 HP LS.

If it proves to be any bit slower, I think that whole notion of V8 equivalence to the Germans is gone as they were obviously focused on that element and used that quickness to state the equivalent claim when they presented the car.

Guess we won't know for sure until someone tests it. Gaining a measly 29 HP over the existing car, which has been around since 2007, seems kind of weak, but that time is the only saving grace assuming it is legitimate.

 

I would not, but I also wouldn't consider the CT6 in the same class as say a Genesis G90. This 5LS is clearly a step above the CT6, remember the CT6 starts in the 50s, this is going to be at base ~ $25,000 more than the CT6 base.

Some trims of the CT6 will compete with this, as they do the LS now, but at its core just sitting in and driving a CT6 shows that its a cut below at its core than the current LS, let alone the 5LS.

The engine isn't everything.

As I've discussed elsewhere, the HP is not the important figure. Whats important is the ~ 75 more lb/ft of torque available at somewhere like 2,500 RPM instead of 4,000 RPM like it is now. The 5 LS will feel considerably faster than the current car. Considerably faster.

 

The engine means a lot to me. I would never consider 4 Cylinder 5 series, for example. You've already climbed that mountain in price, why settle for a puny 4 banger? Likewise here.

That claimed quickness is the only saving grace of that engine (in my eyes) and the ONLY comparable element it has to the German's V8s, which all rush to 60 well under 5 seconds. If it doesn't pan out, then those comparisons are moot and we won't know until someone drives it.

 

The engine means a lot to you. Be careful to try and separate that when talking about the vehicle in an objective sense. This car is clearly a step above a CT6, whether it has a V8 or not.

I wouldn't buy a 4 cyl 5 Series either, and 4cyl power would preclude me from buying a new MB E Class for instance. But...the new E is selling very well, all of them 4cyl so when discussing it objectively its hard to say the car doesn't compare to other cars in its class because it hasn't had 6 Cyl power.

Speaking of that E Class, I did get a chance a couple days ago to look at a new E43. This highlights my concern about V8 availability in an LS only in some "F Sport" or "LS-F" application should that even be available in the future. To me the E43 is boy racerish, garish. Black interior with red piping and red seat belts, just not the elegant understated luxury sedan that I would want. So essentially...for me the E Class has no V6 because what I would want is an ordinary E Class with a V6...not an E43. Just as I don't want to have to buy some LS-F which isn't the demeanor I want to get a V8...