Pulled the trigger on a new...*gasp* Nissan LEAF
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,213
Likes: 261
Everyone gets the tax credit, which aside from the credit itself, is all the more annoying. Wealthier people (the only people that can afford electrics) are being subsidized by poorer people paying the taxes to support the subsidy. It's completely outrageous when you think about it.
The idea of subsidizing electrics is really bothersome and makes no sense. The government is promoting electricity while simultaneously trying to destroy the coal industry. How can someone say that "electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket under my plan..." and then try and get millions of electric cars on the road through taxpayer subsidies? It's mind boggling.
Nothing like paying my car payment as well as my neighbors.
The idea of subsidizing electrics is really bothersome and makes no sense. The government is promoting electricity while simultaneously trying to destroy the coal industry. How can someone say that "electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket under my plan..." and then try and get millions of electric cars on the road through taxpayer subsidies? It's mind boggling.
Nothing like paying my car payment as well as my neighbors.
as to the dirty EVs, simply not true... batteries produced are 100% recyclable... just like ones in phones and computers that you use, that are far, far bigger problem because lots of people dont dispose of them properly.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
while I agree with you that subsidies are asinine, I mean 2 docs I work with bought Tesla S and can easily have bought them with or without my tax money.
But I disagree when you say the wealth are being subsidized by the poor, because very few poor people in our country pay any meaningful income tax (I am not talking payroll tax) but talking income tax where the wealthy pay probably 80% of all the income tax collected.
just looked it up, the 'top 10%' pay 70% of all income tax
But I disagree when you say the wealth are being subsidized by the poor, because very few poor people in our country pay any meaningful income tax (I am not talking payroll tax) but talking income tax where the wealthy pay probably 80% of all the income tax collected.
just looked it up, the 'top 10%' pay 70% of all income tax
it makes a lot of sense... it is produced internally and not in countries where US has to spend billions upon billions to get access to oil.
as to the dirty EVs, simply not true... batteries produced are 100% recyclable... just like ones in phones and computers that you use, that are far, far bigger problem because lots of people dont dispose of them properly.
as to the dirty EVs, simply not true... batteries produced are 100% recyclable... just like ones in phones and computers that you use, that are far, far bigger problem because lots of people dont dispose of them properly.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 218
From: Silicon Valley
In general though, I'm not sure why people are venting about EVs. Being an engineer by profession, I can envision one day where there is an "electric highway" where inductive charging of vehicles is standard, but then again I also see how hyrdogen fuel cells may be a better alternative. As I said before, I never bought the car to proclaim myself as some sort of environmental activist. I bought it because it was dirt cheap and perfect for commuting duties (and kool to boot). My mom loves the EV so much, we're thinking of getting her a FIT EV (once available) to replace her old Pilot.
FYI - for those concern with the range, NIssan now has a 6.6kw quick charge package that is supposed to charge up to 80% in 30min (on a 440v power rail though, usually at a Nissan dealer). I myself use just 110V trickle charge and have had no issues whatsoever.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 218
From: Silicon Valley
Thought I'd update this old post....after 2 years of ownership, here's my impression of the Leaf:
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it for an ICE again.
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it for an ICE again.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
Thought I'd update this old post....after 2 years of ownership, here's my impression of the Leaf:
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it four an ICE again.
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it four an ICE again.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,226
Likes: 222
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
You must have really had to go out on a limb to get the Leaf.
(Yeah, I know......that's a groaner)
Anyhow, on a more serious note, it sounds like it has served you at least reasonably well, given the inherent limitations of a non-Tesla full-electric.....range has always been a potential issue with them. But, if you are dissatisfied with it, you don't necessarily have to spend Tesla money to get a nice electric. Though it won't have the Tesla's range, Ford, for example, does a nice full-electric Focus, starting at a reasonable (by electric standards) $29,170, which is somewhat larger and more roomy than a Leaf.
(Yeah, I know......that's a groaner)Anyhow, on a more serious note, it sounds like it has served you at least reasonably well, given the inherent limitations of a non-Tesla full-electric.....range has always been a potential issue with them. But, if you are dissatisfied with it, you don't necessarily have to spend Tesla money to get a nice electric. Though it won't have the Tesla's range, Ford, for example, does a nice full-electric Focus, starting at a reasonable (by electric standards) $29,170, which is somewhat larger and more roomy than a Leaf.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
GX 550 vs TX 550: Best 3-Row Luxury Lexus Family Hauler
Michael S. Palmer
9 Best Lexus Models You Can Buy for Half Price (And 1 You Shouldn't!)
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus NX Buyer's Guide: Models, Features, Prices & More!
Brett Foote
Top 10 Reasons to Buy a Lexus TX 550h+ (& 3 Reasons to AVOID!)
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyota Models of the 1990s RANKED!
Joe Kucinski
10 Great Toyotas That Could Have Been Lexus Models
Joe Kucinski
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 218
From: Silicon Valley
You must have really had to go out on a limb to get the Leaf. (Yeah, I know......that's a groaner)
Anyhow, on a more serious note, it sounds like it has served you at least reasonably well, given the inherent limitations of a non-Tesla full-electric.....range has always been a potential issue with them. But, if you are dissatisfied with it, you don't necessarily have to spend Tesla money to get a nice electric. Though it won't have the Tesla's range, Ford, for example, does a nice full-electric Focus, starting at a reasonable (by electric standards) $29,170, which is somewhat larger and more roomy than a Leaf.
(Yeah, I know......that's a groaner)Anyhow, on a more serious note, it sounds like it has served you at least reasonably well, given the inherent limitations of a non-Tesla full-electric.....range has always been a potential issue with them. But, if you are dissatisfied with it, you don't necessarily have to spend Tesla money to get a nice electric. Though it won't have the Tesla's range, Ford, for example, does a nice full-electric Focus, starting at a reasonable (by electric standards) $29,170, which is somewhat larger and more roomy than a Leaf.
If Nissan had made some more changes and did a gen 2 Leaf with maybe 50% more electric range (and a lot better styling - Infiniti LE where are you?) , we probably would switched to this.For now, we're anxiously awaiting the Tesla Model E (not really interested in anything, save for the I8). In the interim, we got another ICE... (more on this in another post).
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 218
From: Silicon Valley
Part of this is due to dealer experience. We're basically treated like the red-headed stepchild. Since there is zero maintenance on the cars, sans for tire rotation and maybe the occasional brake job, dealers don't make much $$ off of EVs ownerships. Whenever I strayed over to a Nissan dealer to get charged up, it was a PITA to get someone to hand over the magic "wand" to start the 440V fast charger (yet they had no issues selling me that option when i bought it). Half the time, the associated didn't even know what I was even talking about... I still like EVs a lot, but in this time of cheap gas (knock on wood), we don't really care about the "savings" it would give us and would rather enjoy our cars, as opposed to treating them as commuting appliance.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Sorry you couldn't get more use out of it. Looks like a good financial hit after putting only 9K miles on it. Apparently you got the $32K Leaf for about $18K. And really, this competes with ICE cars around $18K, not $32K. Even though you got so much off the Leaf, it really saved you no money. 9,000 miles in an ICE car that averages 35 MPG (typical for this size class) would have cost about $775 at $3/gal. All the while being a full time, unlimited range car.
Fun experiment but another example of the problems with EVs. I read recently that most EV buyers in recent years have traded in for gas SUVs. LOL.
Fun experiment but another example of the problems with EVs. I read recently that most EV buyers in recent years have traded in for gas SUVs. LOL.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 4
From: Sacramento, CA
Thought I'd update this old post....after 2 years of ownership, here's my impression of the Leaf:
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it for an ICE again.
Good: cheap entry price (when subsidized), no more gas, minimal maintenance, CA white stickers for HOV lane, quick off the line (instaneous torque), quick 440v charger works great, lots of cheap (or free) charging outlets in SF area
Bad: depreciates like a boat anchor, mediocore range prevents all day errands, stock halogens lights really suck, crappy radio
Ugly: looks like cheap econo hatch (inside and out)
Summary: great commuter, but has a very limited range and cheap design throughout. Would only recommend as a 2nd or 3rd car.
For us, it's not that practical so we're getting rid of it for an ICE again.
Would that have changed your mind or did the dealership sour the experience to the point you wouldn't buy another?
very interesting, and honest feedback. 
this is where the left has stuck a fork in their own eye.
they want to save the world from global warming but with no gas tax income to keep the roads up and huge tax rebates for ev's, the ev's are a GIANT LOSS for the government.
cue oregon, who is now 'testing' with 'pay by the mile' for road usage, by asking 'volunteers' to put a gps tracker in their vehicles. not too much privacy loss.
but the writing's on the wall. coming soon - cars won't require a govt tracker, because new ones are connected anyway, they'll just report in usage, and you get a tax bill, like a water bill, etc.
this is where the left has stuck a fork in their own eye.
they want to save the world from global warming but with no gas tax income to keep the roads up and huge tax rebates for ev's, the ev's are a GIANT LOSS for the government.cue oregon, who is now 'testing' with 'pay by the mile' for road usage, by asking 'volunteers' to put a gps tracker in their vehicles. not too much privacy loss.
but the writing's on the wall. coming soon - cars won't require a govt tracker, because new ones are connected anyway, they'll just report in usage, and you get a tax bill, like a water bill, etc.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,226
Likes: 222
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
very interesting, and honest feedback.
this is where the left has stuck a fork in their own eye. they want to save the world from global warming but with no gas tax income to keep the roads up and huge tax rebates for ev's, the ev's are a GIANT LOSS for the government.
this is where the left has stuck a fork in their own eye.
they want to save the world from global warming but with no gas tax income to keep the roads up and huge tax rebates for ev's, the ev's are a GIANT LOSS for the government.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
Part of this is due to dealer experience. We're basically treated like the red-headed stepchild. Since there is zero maintenance on the cars, sans for tire rotation and maybe the occasional brake job, dealers don't make much $$ off of EVs ownerships. Whenever I strayed over to a Nissan dealer to get charged up, it was a PITA to get someone to hand over the magic "wand" to start the 440V fast charger (yet they had no issues selling me that option when i bought it). Half the time, the associated didn't even know what I was even talking about... I still like EVs a lot, but in this time of cheap gas (knock on wood), we don't really care about the "savings" it would give us and would rather enjoy our cars, as opposed to treating them as commuting appliance.