SteVTEC

An SAE White Paper I have on the BMW Valvetronic technology does indeed state a 10-15% improvement in efficiency, but only at very light loads or while idling and not really across the board. Using continuously variable valve lift for throttling gets rid of the throttle plate which is a big restriction when it's mostly closed, hence the efficiency improvement in that area. If you're accelerating the throttle plate isn't really a restriction since it's open enough to not be one.

Every little bit does help, though. BMWs are getting some pretty good MPG numbers these days. Lexus could come out with it too, but I think it'd be seen as more of a "me too" thing at this point which wouldn't be good. BMW has had it since 2000, and Nissan has had it for awhile now too.
If they did it they'd probably do it quietly. Only Honda is shameless enough to come out with something that everybody else has had for 10 years and try to hype it up as if they invented it.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

(sorry steve - deleted my original post and added more to it!)

Lexus has taken too long to update their current crop of engines and I'm disappointed that they have held off on adding Valvematic to a single one of them. Toyota trademarked "Valvematic" for use in the U.S. a few years ago and I thought we'd have seen it incorporated by now. Adding that technology alone would be enough to adequately update their engine lineup. If I recall correctly, Valvematic adds something like 12% to power and 15% to efficiency across the line, on average.

Adding it to the 3.5L V6 would result in ~343hp and 22/31/25 in gas mileage
2.5L V6 (IS): ~228 hp and 24/34/29
4.6L V8 (LS): ~426 hp and 18/27/22
4.6L V8 (GX): ~337 hp and 17/23/20
5.7L V8 (LX): ~429 hp and 14/20/16
5.0L V8 (ISF): ~467 hp and 18/26/21

spwolf: I know the GR is still "good enough" but Lexus could be doing more to update the engine and stay ahead....like they were 6 years ago.

spwolf

sorry but thats a lot of wishful thinking :-).

Valvematic was said to give around 6%-8% improvement in fuel efficiency and power, but thats with ZR series engines specifically (your totals are from both ZZ>ZR and Valvematic). When it comes to 4cly engines, their complete engine lineup was updated in 2009, so kind of hard to say that it is outdated :-). Now yes, Toyota USA is using old engines and transmissions to keep the costs down, but thats their choice - and who is to blame them? It works. They sell a ton of cars. Here in Europe they updated all the engines in 2009, and they had the best engine lineup for sure, heck only engine that had 5 speed was 1.0 3cly, all of the rest had 6 speeds where VW/Ford/Opel you had to pay extra... and guess what? Nobody cared. Recession hit and people cared about the cost not 0.2l/100km better consumption. It is hard to convince customer that 5.2l is much better than 5.7l, and that they have to pay extra $1000 for it.

I dont think they will update GR significantly anymore... I dont think they will ever add Valvematic to it (maybe gains are too small for GR? Maybe there isnt enough space for both Valvematic and D4S?). FSE engines with D4S are still very very good engines. If they wanted to do more of them, they could... but they probably dont for cost reasons. Look at Avalon - it gets excellent MPG despite large size. Best in class, easily.

If I had to guess, they are probably developing new turbo engines that will go into everything within 2-3 years, with 2GR-FSE surviving, but 4GR being replaced with turbo.

I am not sure if they will develop new series of V6 engines, as currently GR FSE versions are the best there is. They might only if they have to due to different requirements today - hybridization and turbos.

But to me, since they didnt change engines for 4GS debut, especially 4GR-FE, I dont think they will do anything with them in the future. They will probably introduce completely new turbocharged series within 2 years.

spwolf

Valvematic is a lot more complicated and bigger than Valvematic... BMW cant pair it with DI since it is too big to fit, as result of that they are using it less and less.

SteVTEC

The Taurus 2.0T gets better mileage.

What the heck are you talking about? The car I'm driving has both Valvetronic and DI, the BMW N55.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55

Used for pretty much all of their 3.0L Inline-6 applications now including the brand new 6-series.

John Coyle

Read about it here: 2014 IS Will be a Totally New Model

At least, that's what we're being lead to believe by the Lexus' marketing guys. We get the impression that the new IS will be harder than any IS past. Is this a good thing? Should the IS be more "sporty"?

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

The ES and IS needs to be significantly different, considering they share a similar price point.

The ES is large and comfortable, therefore the IS needs to be super light and aggressive. The IS has gotten too heavy (check the IS-F and IS-C). It would be nice to get something that causes a ruckus. It should not have a hybrid option: that's what the CT and ES-h are for. It should not be a big sport saloon: that's what the GS is for.

Make the IS "unique", not just affordable. Let it shine. Let it outshine.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

This has been discussed at length here:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...exus-is-6.html

spwolf

Taurus 2.04cly Turbo gets better mpg than 3.5l V6, by 1 MPG... Taurus new and updated V6 gets 2 MPG less.

You can read more about variable lift systems here:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ine/vvt_5.html

spwolf

why shouldnt IS have an hybrid? It will certainly have a hybrid version, at least one.

SteVTEC

So the Avalon does not "easily" get the best mileage in its class.

Rash

iTrader: (1)

228hp...

spwolf

it gets 2 MPG better than V6 Taurus, which is what I consider its class. I dont think 2.04cly Turbo will fare any better in Taurus than in Sonata but we will see, maybe even within next 1-2 months.

SteVTEC

You must be into product marketing.

oldcajun

I think we already see the handwriting on the wall relative to the future of V-6 engines in small to medium size cars. Audi is using the 2.0T in most of their US applications, BMW & Mercedes have brought 4 cyl. engines back to the US market, and Ford is using the 2.0 Ecoboost in many applications.

Most people who have driven the Audi 2.0T rave about the useable power. I have driven a Ford Edge with the 2.0 Ecoboost and the power is certainly adequate even for a fairly heavy SUV.

The boosted V-6 is the likely replacement for V-8's in larger cars. Audi uses a boosted V-6 in the A-6 and A-7 and they are equal to anything in class in performance. The Ford 3.5 Ecoboost really moves such heavyweights as the SHO and Flex. In fact, it outperforms the 5.0 V-8 in the F150 truck where it has 420 ft. lb of torque.

Where does this leave Toyota? I think they need to ramp up high tech boosted 4 cyl for cars Camry size and below and boosted (twin turbo?) V-6 engines for large cars and SUV's. Hybrids are fine for maximum economy to compete with diesels, but not for boosting performance. Let's see a 3.5 Ecoboost type engine for the GS-F! Easily 400+ hp and 400+ ft lb torque and the same or better mileage as the GS350. Now that is a win-win!

Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve