September 2010 Sales Thread
10-02-10, 06:53 PM
#31
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It wouldn't be considered a flop unless it sells lower than the rest of the competition. Currently, that would be the RL and GS. Th GS has great engines and is definitely not outdated technology wise but doesn't currently sell well. Lets see what type of numbers the newly designed GS will have. If you want to compare last generation to current generation, this generation GS is a flop
You bring up the HS, now the GS and spouting off what you don't know. This current model GS has outsold the last generation. This current model sold over 32,000 cars in 2006, more than the 1998-2000 model which was around 30,000 vehicles. The next GS may lose its V-8 so it would be impossible to compare and they likely have lowered any future goals.
The GS has never had the luxury of lease rates like Infiniti has had on their vehicle(s) thus is is unappealing to those that don't want to own a car/write off for business.
I know its hard to stay on topic but we were talking about the HS and M37/56.
10-02-10, 08:32 PM
#32
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Lexus being a Tier 1 luxury brand doesn't see it fit to change their mid size luxury car every 5 years like Nissan does. Thus you are comparing a brand new car vs a nearly 6 year old GS.Of course a 6 year old model won't sell well when the E, 5, XF, M37/56 have all come after it. The RL shouldn't ever be mentioned, its failed since 1996 and hasn't hit any sales goal.
You bring up the HS, now the GS and spouting off what you don't know. This current model GS has outsold the last generation. This current model sold over 32,000 cars in 2006, more than the 1998-2000 model which was around 30,000 vehicles. The next GS may lose its V-8 so it would be impossible to compare and they likely have lowered any future goals.
The GS has never had the luxury of lease rates like Infiniti has had on their vehicle(s) thus is is unappealing to those that don't want to own a car/write off for business.
I know its hard to stay on topic but we were talking about the HS and M37/56.
You bring up the HS, now the GS and spouting off what you don't know. This current model GS has outsold the last generation. This current model sold over 32,000 cars in 2006, more than the 1998-2000 model which was around 30,000 vehicles. The next GS may lose its V-8 so it would be impossible to compare and they likely have lowered any future goals.
The GS has never had the luxury of lease rates like Infiniti has had on their vehicle(s) thus is is unappealing to those that don't want to own a car/write off for business.
I know its hard to stay on topic but we were talking about the HS and M37/56.
10-02-10, 08:35 PM
#33
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It's still surprising to me that regardless of the fact that audi has such a strong lineup comparable to mbz and bmw, its sales are still in line with Infiniti's. Especially since Infiniti only has 2 car models and 3 suvs, as others have mentioned before
10-02-10, 09:59 PM
#34
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Also a sub G25/37 car is coming and its not the Leaf Infiniti coming. I believe its named JX and will be another CUV/SUV under the EX.
In contrast the QX seems to be a huge hit for them, even outselling the M37/56 which NEVER happened before (last month). The EX and FX have been huge flops and the FX has a price decrease to try to help things out.
Audi is substantially more expensive with lack of inventory for their new popular models (A4/Q5). Talk to any Audi dealer the cars are in demand and Germany sends them some horrid allocation. Audi has also mentioned recently they want to grow smartly. They sell every Q5 they can get their hands on.
Then the new A8 and A7 are on the way. More product. The new A6 is next.
I saw the trends and said Infiniti better watch Audi. Well today Audi is pretty much on par with Infiniti in sales even surpasses them some months. This was unheard of 5 years ago.
Audi has also blown past Lincoln who is struggling.
Before you bring up Lexus let me add if they don't get their act together quick they are going to be in for some short and possible mid term issues.
10-04-10, 12:10 PM
#35
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In all fairness to Infiniti the M and G seem more compelling offerings than their Lexus counterparts regardless of discount or value. There are quantifiable reasons why both cars outsell the GS and IS. Of course the M is an all new model (as is most anything else in the segment vs. the GS). Simply put, the current GS is literally outdated compared to its competition (I say this despite the fact that I love the current GS and would own one if I was able to get a great deal on it).
The G to me, and apparently to many others, is a more substantial car than the IS for a comparable price. Bigger, just as powerful, fun to drive, and arguably better looking than the IS.
Both the G and M have very good resale.
Considering the fact that Audi had been in this market for many years before Infiniti and that Infiniti goes head to head with them in sales is more an accomplishment for Infiniti than Audi. Granted, Audi was hobbled by the Sudden Unintended Acceleration scare of the 80's. But Infiniti was equally handicapped but it's ill-conceived launch campaign. So it's easy to see why and how these two companies are battling at a similar level.
The G to me, and apparently to many others, is a more substantial car than the IS for a comparable price. Bigger, just as powerful, fun to drive, and arguably better looking than the IS.
Both the G and M have very good resale.
Considering the fact that Audi had been in this market for many years before Infiniti and that Infiniti goes head to head with them in sales is more an accomplishment for Infiniti than Audi. Granted, Audi was hobbled by the Sudden Unintended Acceleration scare of the 80's. But Infiniti was equally handicapped but it's ill-conceived launch campaign. So it's easy to see why and how these two companies are battling at a similar level.
10-04-10, 01:06 PM
#36
Overview
For the most part, September's sales were about what we would have expected given last September's relatively weak sales thanks to Clunkeritis - but that's not to say that there
Sales of mainstream brands were weak last September thanks to reduced demand and dealership volumes caused by the government's “Cash for Clunkers” program. Funding for the program was over by last September and sales entered a brief slump for many brands. In addition, dealerships reported nearly depleted inventories for a number of more efficient models like the Toyota Corolla, Ford Focus and Jeep Compass.
Some of the more surprising gainers included Acura (up 48 percent), Saab (up 133 percent) and Jeep (up 66 percent). Acura saw huge demand for its two crossovers, the RDX and MDX, Saab's 9-3 leasing programs are paying off and Jeep nearly doubled Grand Cherokee sales.
September's Numbers
Acura – Up 48 percent to 10,720
Audi - Up 13 percent to 8,151
BMW - Up 21 percent to 18,228
Buick - Up 36 percent to 12,875
Cadillac - Up 11 percent to 12,620
Chevrolet - Up 19 percent to 121,406
Chrysler - Up 92 percent to 17,348
Dodge - Up 71 percent to 36,272
Ford - Up 49 percent to 146,559
GMC - Up 45 percent to 25,944
Honda – Up 24 percent to 86,641
Hummer - Down 62 percent to 163
Hyundai – Up 48 percent to 46,556
Infiniti – Up 26 percent to 8,305
Jaguar - Up 10 percent to 967
Jeep - Up 66 percent to 28,603
Kia - Up 39 percent to 30,071
Land Rover - Up 12 percent to 2,489
Lexus – Down 6 percent to 16,948
Lincoln - Up 26 percent to 7,510
Maserati - Up 5 percent to 136
Mazda - Up 31 percent to 18,580
Mercedes-Benz – Up 22 percent to 20,675
Mercury - Up 16 percent to 6,306
Mitsubishi - Up 5 percent to 4,961
MINI - Up 18 percent to 4,884
Nissan – Up 35 percent to 65,900
Pontiac - Down 100 percent to 8
Porsche - Up 25 percent to 1,971
Ram - Up 22 percent to 17,854
Saab - Down Up 133 percent to 1,127
Saturn - Down 100 percent to 15
Smart - Down 48 percent to 422
Subaru - Up 47 percent to 21,432
Suzuki - Down 12 percent to 1,641
Toyota (Includes Scion) – Up 20 percent to 126,652
Volkswagen - Up 15 percent to 19,943
Volvo - Down 12 percent to 4,152
BMW Group - Up 21 percent to 28,223
Chrysler - Up 61 percent to 100,077
Daimler - Up 18 percent to 21,100
Ford Motor Company - Up 40 percent to 160,375
General Motors - Up 11 percent to 173,031
American Honda - Up 26 percent to 97,361
Hyundai Group - Up 44 percent to 76,627
Jaguar Land Rover - Up 11 percent to 3,456
Nissan North America - Up 34 percent to 74,205
Toyota USA - Up 17 percent to 147,162
2010 YTD Numbers
Acura – Up 26 percent to 96,388
Audi - Up 24 percent to 73,590
BMW - Up 9 percent to 157,464
Buick - Up 58 percent to 114,000
Cadillac - Up 44 percent to 105,013
Chevrolet - Up 19 percent to 1,174,179
Chrysler - Up 18 percent to 158,103
Dodge - Up 25 percent to 303,019
Ford - Up 23 percent to 1,302,272
GMC - Up 31 percent to 230,502
Honda – Up 1 percent to 816,048
Hummer - Down 57 percent to 3,507
Hyundai – Up 20 percent to 410,047
Infiniti – Up 25 percent to 74,797
Jaguar - Up 12 percent to 9,748
Jeep - Up 14 percent to 207,546
Kia - Up 12 percent to 268,024
Land Rover - Up 21 percent to 22,289
Lexus – Up 9 percent to 162,438
Lincoln - Up 7 percent to 63,286
Maserati - Up 43 percent to 1,355
Mazda - Up 9 percent to 174,770
Mercedes-Benz – Up 22 percent to 165,427
Mercury - Up 3 percent to 71,179
Mitsubishi - Down 3 percent to 41,392
MINI - Down 1 percent to 34,588
Nissan – Up 15 percent to 598,904
Pontiac – Down 99 percent to 962
Porsche - Up 24 percent to 17,688
Ram - Down 4 percent to 151,552
Saab - Down 53 percent to 3,233
Saturn - Down 89 percent to 6,568
Smart - Down 62 percent to 4,779
Subaru - Up 22 percent to 193,614
Suzuki - Down 49 percent to 16,972
Toyota (Includes Scion) – Up 1 percent to 1,148,878
Volkswagen - Up 21 percent to 192,690
Volvo - Down 12 percent to 41,118
BMW Group - Up 7 percent to 192,286
Chrysler - Up 15 percent to 820,220
Daimler - Up 15 percent to 170,233
Ford Motor Company - Up 19 percent to 1,469,262
General Motors - Up 6 percent to 1,635,339
American Honda - Up 3 percent to 912,436
Hyundai Group - Up 17 percent to 678,071
Jaguar Land Rover - Up 18 percent to 32,037
Nissan North America - Up 16 percent to 673,701
Toyota USA - Up 1 percent to 1,311,316
Leftlane's bottom lineAcura – Up 48 percent to 10,720
Audi - Up 13 percent to 8,151
BMW - Up 21 percent to 18,228
Buick - Up 36 percent to 12,875
Cadillac - Up 11 percent to 12,620
Chevrolet - Up 19 percent to 121,406
Chrysler - Up 92 percent to 17,348
Dodge - Up 71 percent to 36,272
Ford - Up 49 percent to 146,559
GMC - Up 45 percent to 25,944
Honda – Up 24 percent to 86,641
Hummer - Down 62 percent to 163
Hyundai – Up 48 percent to 46,556
Infiniti – Up 26 percent to 8,305
Jaguar - Up 10 percent to 967
Jeep - Up 66 percent to 28,603
Kia - Up 39 percent to 30,071
Land Rover - Up 12 percent to 2,489
Lexus – Down 6 percent to 16,948
Lincoln - Up 26 percent to 7,510
Maserati - Up 5 percent to 136
Mazda - Up 31 percent to 18,580
Mercedes-Benz – Up 22 percent to 20,675
Mercury - Up 16 percent to 6,306
Mitsubishi - Up 5 percent to 4,961
MINI - Up 18 percent to 4,884
Nissan – Up 35 percent to 65,900
Pontiac - Down 100 percent to 8
Porsche - Up 25 percent to 1,971
Ram - Up 22 percent to 17,854
Saab - Down Up 133 percent to 1,127
Saturn - Down 100 percent to 15
Smart - Down 48 percent to 422
Subaru - Up 47 percent to 21,432
Suzuki - Down 12 percent to 1,641
Toyota (Includes Scion) – Up 20 percent to 126,652
Volkswagen - Up 15 percent to 19,943
Volvo - Down 12 percent to 4,152
BMW Group - Up 21 percent to 28,223
Chrysler - Up 61 percent to 100,077
Daimler - Up 18 percent to 21,100
Ford Motor Company - Up 40 percent to 160,375
General Motors - Up 11 percent to 173,031
American Honda - Up 26 percent to 97,361
Hyundai Group - Up 44 percent to 76,627
Jaguar Land Rover - Up 11 percent to 3,456
Nissan North America - Up 34 percent to 74,205
Toyota USA - Up 17 percent to 147,162
2010 YTD Numbers
Acura – Up 26 percent to 96,388
Audi - Up 24 percent to 73,590
BMW - Up 9 percent to 157,464
Buick - Up 58 percent to 114,000
Cadillac - Up 44 percent to 105,013
Chevrolet - Up 19 percent to 1,174,179
Chrysler - Up 18 percent to 158,103
Dodge - Up 25 percent to 303,019
Ford - Up 23 percent to 1,302,272
GMC - Up 31 percent to 230,502
Honda – Up 1 percent to 816,048
Hummer - Down 57 percent to 3,507
Hyundai – Up 20 percent to 410,047
Infiniti – Up 25 percent to 74,797
Jaguar - Up 12 percent to 9,748
Jeep - Up 14 percent to 207,546
Kia - Up 12 percent to 268,024
Land Rover - Up 21 percent to 22,289
Lexus – Up 9 percent to 162,438
Lincoln - Up 7 percent to 63,286
Maserati - Up 43 percent to 1,355
Mazda - Up 9 percent to 174,770
Mercedes-Benz – Up 22 percent to 165,427
Mercury - Up 3 percent to 71,179
Mitsubishi - Down 3 percent to 41,392
MINI - Down 1 percent to 34,588
Nissan – Up 15 percent to 598,904
Pontiac – Down 99 percent to 962
Porsche - Up 24 percent to 17,688
Ram - Down 4 percent to 151,552
Saab - Down 53 percent to 3,233
Saturn - Down 89 percent to 6,568
Smart - Down 62 percent to 4,779
Subaru - Up 22 percent to 193,614
Suzuki - Down 49 percent to 16,972
Toyota (Includes Scion) – Up 1 percent to 1,148,878
Volkswagen - Up 21 percent to 192,690
Volvo - Down 12 percent to 41,118
BMW Group - Up 7 percent to 192,286
Chrysler - Up 15 percent to 820,220
Daimler - Up 15 percent to 170,233
Ford Motor Company - Up 19 percent to 1,469,262
General Motors - Up 6 percent to 1,635,339
American Honda - Up 3 percent to 912,436
Hyundai Group - Up 17 percent to 678,071
Jaguar Land Rover - Up 18 percent to 32,037
Nissan North America - Up 16 percent to 673,701
Toyota USA - Up 1 percent to 1,311,316
As the economy continues to warm up, sales of both luxury and high-volume brands continue to rise. We're still not seeing much growth out of Japanese former stalwarts like Honda and Toyota – at least compared to their domestic and Korean counterparts – but few players were truly weak last month.
Perhaps most impressive is the continued momentum seen primarily at Hyundai, Ford and General Motors, all of which have seen their market shares increase. The biggest gains are at Ford, which has 15.1 percent of the market so far this year (compared to 13.5 percent last year), but Hyundai (4.8 versus 4.4), Chevrolet (13.6 versus 12.6) and GMC (2.7 versus 2.3) all have reason to celebrate, too.
10-04-10, 11:04 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
I've seen this every year, for the last 24 years. A new model debuts, outsells the old model (shocking!), and all of a sudden everyone is cheering in awe. Then in two years, sales taper off, another brand does the same thing, and the whole thing repeats again. This has gone on since the beginning of auto sales. The lesson is, whoever has the new model usually gets the big sales numbers.
Another observation: A car company, say Buick, has an atrocious line-up of outdated cars no one wants. Within three years, they revamp their line-up with cars that actually compete with others. Sales increase like mad and everyone thinks the company is now a top company due to the high % increase. Wrong. The past product was so poor, ANYTHING decently new would have increased sales. They are only catching up to where the others have been. That is noble and positive, but does not make for a great car company.
Over to Lexus's slipping numbers. This is what happens when you risk moving to a 5-6 year model turnover. (In fariness, most competing companies run a similar schedule, with the same lows.) One wonders if the loss of new sales $ offsets the savings of not spending the cash for a faster redesign. I've often wondered about that, but finding such an answer would be next to impossible.
About the GS: Why doesn't Lexus offer competitive leases for this model since it does not sell well? What do they have to lose by offering better programs to move the metal? They seem to have no problem offering bargain leases on the IS, ES, and HS. What keeps the GS out of the party?
Another observation: A car company, say Buick, has an atrocious line-up of outdated cars no one wants. Within three years, they revamp their line-up with cars that actually compete with others. Sales increase like mad and everyone thinks the company is now a top company due to the high % increase. Wrong. The past product was so poor, ANYTHING decently new would have increased sales. They are only catching up to where the others have been. That is noble and positive, but does not make for a great car company.
Over to Lexus's slipping numbers. This is what happens when you risk moving to a 5-6 year model turnover. (In fariness, most competing companies run a similar schedule, with the same lows.) One wonders if the loss of new sales $ offsets the savings of not spending the cash for a faster redesign. I've often wondered about that, but finding such an answer would be next to impossible.
About the GS: Why doesn't Lexus offer competitive leases for this model since it does not sell well? What do they have to lose by offering better programs to move the metal? They seem to have no problem offering bargain leases on the IS, ES, and HS. What keeps the GS out of the party?
10-05-10, 05:52 AM
#38
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Yes, Lexus has substantial discounts on the HS trying to move it. Dealers cannot stand the car and its a huge miss.
I know Lexus haters love the HS b/c its the first model in recent memory to just flop. So it gives them much needed ammunition.
Sadly the M37/56 is in the same boat as its selling at 50% of the rate as the previous model. Even in a downmarket (recession) they should be selling more.
Both flopped it up
I know Lexus haters love the HS b/c its the first model in recent memory to just flop. So it gives them much needed ammunition.
Sadly the M37/56 is in the same boat as its selling at 50% of the rate as the previous model. Even in a downmarket (recession) they should be selling more.
Both flopped it up
The M is #3 in sales for this class, just behind the E & 5, while beating out offerings from Lexus, Audi, and the rest. I've mentioned this before and it's worth mentioning again - no matter how you try to spin the numbers (posting ridiculously low lease rates that don't exist, not taking into account a significant increase in price between generations, etc), the fact remains that Infiniti continues to dominate Lexus in both the entry level and mid-level markets (ES sales do not count unless Nissan decides to re-badge an Altima and call it the new I37 or something).
10-05-10, 09:25 AM
#39
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In all fairness to Infiniti the M and G seem more compelling offerings than their Lexus counterparts regardless of discount or value. There are quantifiable reasons why both cars outsell the GS and IS. Of course the M is an all new model (as is most anything else in the segment vs. the GS). Simply put, the current GS is literally outdated compared to its competition (I say this despite the fact that I love the current GS and would own one if I was able to get a great deal on it).
The G to me, and apparently to many others, is a more substantial car than the IS for a comparable price. Bigger, just as powerful, fun to drive, and arguably better looking than the IS.
Both the G and M have very good resale.
Considering the fact that Audi had been in this market for many years before Infiniti and that Infiniti goes head to head with them in sales is more an accomplishment for Infiniti than Audi. Granted, Audi was hobbled by the Sudden Unintended Acceleration scare of the 80's. But Infiniti was equally handicapped but it's ill-conceived launch campaign. So it's easy to see why and how these two companies are battling at a similar level.
The G to me, and apparently to many others, is a more substantial car than the IS for a comparable price. Bigger, just as powerful, fun to drive, and arguably better looking than the IS.
Both the G and M have very good resale.
Considering the fact that Audi had been in this market for many years before Infiniti and that Infiniti goes head to head with them in sales is more an accomplishment for Infiniti than Audi. Granted, Audi was hobbled by the Sudden Unintended Acceleration scare of the 80's. But Infiniti was equally handicapped but it's ill-conceived launch campaign. So it's easy to see why and how these two companies are battling at a similar level.
The M has only outsold the GS for the last 20 months or so and we have a new M model out. The GS has never had the the luxury of the lease rates the M has always had nor the higher discounts. That simply affects sales especially since the M offers a very good package.
Yes, the GS is old but Tier 1 luxury brands don't change their expensive cars every 5 years like they are Altma's. Luxury brands extend the life cycle. The A6, GS, 5, E all have longer life cycles. Being a Fuga, it has to change often. Some people might like the constant change but many do not.
The G is Infinit's VOLUME car. 60% of Infiniti's sold are G's. The IS is not the volume car, the ES is. You can lease a G37 UNDER an IS 250. Of course that helps sales, Lexus cannot compete with that cheapo leasing.
Please don't misinterpret my thoughts about the cars. They are very well done. The way they are sold hurts their image, resale (sorry outside the coupe their resale is average at best) and helps sales.
If the cars were sold with prices more resembling their true MSRPS, sales would tank. Thus they continue to be very price dependent and not selling on being a BETTER vehicle/brand.
How convenient that you leave out the fact that the new M is significantly more expensive than the previous generation, thus most likely being the main factor in reduced total sales count (you use the same argument for the TL, again conveniently leaving out the fact that
the TL is significantly more expensive than the previous generation).
the TL is significantly more expensive than the previous generation).
You say "even in a downmarket they should be selling more" ? The M is #3 in sales for this class, just behind the E & 5, while beating out offerings from Lexus, Audi, and the rest. I've mentioned this before and it's worth mentioning again - no matter how you try to spin the numbers (posting ridiculously low lease rates that don't exist, not taking into account a significant increase in price between generations, etc), the fact remains that Infiniti continues to dominate Lexus in both the entry level and mid-level markets (ES sales do not count unless Nissan decides to re-badge an Altima and call it the new I37 or something).
The M is #3 in sales for this class, just behind the E & 5, while beating out offerings from Lexus, Audi, and the rest. I've mentioned this before and it's worth mentioning again - no matter how you try to spin the numbers (posting ridiculously low lease rates that don't exist, not taking into account a significant increase in price between generations, etc), the fact remains that Infiniti continues to dominate Lexus in both the entry level and mid-level markets (ES sales do not count unless Nissan decides to re-badge an Altima and call it the new I37 or something).Its not spinning. The M37/56 is now 3rd best selling in class but its only been on the market a few months and it RELIES on substantive discounts and lease deals to sell.
Do you know why? Do you know why dealers try to avoid such desperate tactics. B/C once you start offering them consumers will expect them every time. Notice how M sales have went up some units since the nationwide lease has debuted. People expect thousands off and low leases for Infiniti's they shot themselves in the foot offering them during the 2000s and now dealers rely on it to push the product. Otherwise people will walk right out.
You might want to read on the difference between platform sharing and rebadging.
Its amazing to me when people get mad, they start to pick on the ES. I guess it sucks to own the best selling entry level luxury Japanese car.
Mind you I'm not talking about the product, they make some good products. I'm talking about the way they sell them.
Take ten minutes to talk to the Finance guy or GM at an Infiniti dealership and you will hear what I said. They are bleeding money and make it solely on parts/service.
10-05-10, 09:34 AM
#40
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I've seen this every year, for the last 24 years. A new model debuts, outsells the old model (shocking!), and all of a sudden everyone is cheering in awe. Then in two years, sales taper off, another brand does the same thing, and the whole thing repeats again. This has gone on since the beginning of auto sales. The lesson is, whoever has the new model usually gets the big sales numbers.
Another observation: A car company, say Buick, has an atrocious line-up of outdated cars no one wants. Within three years, they revamp their line-up with cars that actually compete with others. Sales increase like mad and everyone thinks the company is now a top company due to the high % increase. Wrong. The past product was so poor, ANYTHING decently new would have increased sales. They are only catching up to where the others have been. That is noble and positive, but does not make for a great car company.
Over to Lexus's slipping numbers. This is what happens when you risk moving to a 5-6 year model turnover. (In fariness, most competing companies run a similar schedule, with the same lows.) One wonders if the loss of new sales $ offsets the savings of not spending the cash for a faster redesign. I've often wondered about that, but finding such an answer would be next to impossible.
You build your luxury car to last, you don't build them to change constantly. That is what your Toyota, Nissan, Honda brands are suppsoed to be for (the ES is the only one that follows a 5 year cycle being based on the Camry but it seems not to hurt it). It makes no sense to redesign a car often just to offer discounts often. That would mean changing it often isn't really helping sales.
About the GS: Why doesn't Lexus offer competitive leases for this model since it does not sell well? What do they have to lose by offering better programs to move the metal? They seem to have no problem offering bargain leases on the IS, ES, and HS. What keeps the GS out of the party?
I've seen GS deals from dealer to dealer but nothing national. It keeps resale high, it keeps dealer profits up and it means it is sold on merit, not just price. In return you lose some units sold.
We also have to remember this is not 2000 when the only decent sedans in this segment were the 5, E, GS and a bunch of also-rans. This segment is incredible for the consumer now;
5, E, GS, A6, M, XF, MKS , S80, and even cars like the CTS, new Saab 95
10-05-10, 12:18 PM
#41
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I would not call being thousands behind the E/5 series as "just behind". Also the M is the newer entry compared to the GS/A6, I hope sales are better, they should be.
Its not spinning. The M37/56 is now 3rd best selling in class but its only been on the market a few months and it RELIES on substantive discounts and lease deals to sell.
10-05-10, 12:58 PM
#42
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Where is your solid proof of these discounts? How about you go on the actual g37 and m37/56 forums and ask people what they really got there lease for. Advertised lease rates are bs. I go through my car broker for all my cars. He says advertised lease rates are BS. The only way you can get those for those prices is to have a stripped down, no option car. Most cars on lots are equipped with more options. Provide this proof of these "substantive discounts" and maybe then I as well as others will believe you. What's advertised versus what people get is a totally different story.
Again I know its a good car and I am in no way shape or form saying otherwise. This is the monthly sales thread and its not just about the numbers, it is also about how the numbers were produced.
May 2010
I just got $3400 off an M37X, Harbour Blue, Java interior, Premium on a special order.
I emailed couple dealers in the So Cal area, and I was able to get around 4K to 5K discount off of MSRP on the M37S models with almost no negotiation. I even walked into one of the dealers and asked the sales what is the best price he can give me, and he immediately offered me a 4K discount
I was offered a $2,500 discount on M37S in New Jersey.
$2500 over invoice ($3170 off MSRP) from MotorWerks of Barrington IL
Yesterday I brought home a new M37 Sport with premium package, lighted sills, rear spoiler and a few other accessories for $5100 off sticker.
just got my m37x premium pkg w/ trunkmat, cargo net and first aid kit for $4910 off sticker. msrp was 52810, I got it for 47900.
just spoke with the finance guy (who happens to be a friend of mine for years) at my local dealership, and he informed me that they are really not moving the Ms as planned. This dealership used to advertise as being the "Number 1 Infiniti dealership in the country". Infiniti stopped doing leasing for the 2010 Ms of which they have a handful. They have almost 60 2011s in stock with very little action.
I'm in Southern California and I just finalized my deal on an M56 base with no additional options:
MSRP: $58,415
My Price: $55,223 ($1,250 over invoice)
MSRP: $58,415
My Price: $55,223 ($1,250 over invoice)
Purchase price: $52,200
MSRP: $51,888
Invoice: $56,655
MSRP: $51,888
Invoice: $56,655
Here is the finance rate for September.
Kenny at Infiniti of Massapequa [Finance Manager]
1.9% financing for 66 months is now available till September 30th.
http://www.infinitiusa.com/current-o...Current_Offers
10-05-10, 01:08 PM
#43
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Yes, the GS is old but Tier 1 luxury brands don't change their expensive cars every 5 years like they are Altma's. Luxury brands extend the life cycle. The A6, GS, 5, E all have longer life cycles. Being a Fuga, it has to change often. Some people might like the constant change but many do not.
Oh please.. the new GS can't come out soon enough and you know it. Yet, you continue to spew the same line over and over again about how these so-called luxury buyers don't like change and would prefer a life cycle to last 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years. Give me a break. That logic only applies to FLAGSHIP models and you know it. So give the whole "Infiniti updates their vehicles too often" nonsense a rest please because no one is buying what you are selling.Not when there is a huge jump in MSRP, as is the case with the new Infiniti M and Acura TL.
I would not call being thousands behind the E/5 series as "just behind". Also the M is the newer entry compared to the GS/A6, I hope sales are better, they should be.
Its not spinning. The M37/56 is now 3rd best selling in class but its only been on the market a few months and it RELIES on substantive discounts and lease deals to sell.
Its not spinning. The M37/56 is now 3rd best selling in class but its only been on the market a few months and it RELIES on substantive discounts and lease deals to sell.
The ES is based off the Toyota Camry platform. Nissan's competitor to the Camry is the Altima. So when/if Nissan decides to offer an upscale version of the Altima under the Infiniti brand, then we can discuss which is the better car, which has better sales and why, etc.
10-05-10, 01:26 PM
#44
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I think if you took a poll and asked how many people would prefer a new model of (fill in the blank) luxury car to come out every 5 years instead of every 7 years, you might be sorely mistaken. We ROUTINELY read on this board how the current GS is so "old" and "dated" compared to the competition. You yourself like to mention how the fact that the GS is now several years old as being the prime reason why it suffers weak sales month after month. Now you expect me and others to believe that waiting 6, 7, 8 years between generations is somehow a GOOD thing? Oh please.. the new GS can't come out soon enough and you know it. Yet, you continue to spew the same line over and over again about how these so-called luxury buyers don't like change and would prefer a life cycle to last 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years. Give me a break. That logic only applies to FLAGSHIP models and you know it. So give the whole "Infiniti updates their vehicles too often" nonsense a rest please because no one is buying what you are selling.
Oh please.. the new GS can't come out soon enough and you know it. Yet, you continue to spew the same line over and over again about how these so-called luxury buyers don't like change and would prefer a life cycle to last 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years. Give me a break. That logic only applies to FLAGSHIP models and you know it. So give the whole "Infiniti updates their vehicles too often" nonsense a rest please because no one is buying what you are selling.I know you and some others like beating up the GS while forgetting the GS has been around since 1993 and was the first successful Japanese luxury sport sedan in this class. The GS paved the way for the M which began life as a coupe that was discontinued. The M now will even have a M35h like the GS 450h. However continue to beat up the car that still represents the segment when you think of a Japanese car in this class. Its silly b/c a new one is around the corner.
Well look above. To be honest I might not bring it up again b/c I am questioning the basic reasoning and logic skills displayed by some just because their favorite brand is being discussed.
Actually, the I35 didn't fail miserably. Infiniti simply wanted to streamline their lineup in making their products RWD-only. The G35 filled in the entry level gap and was a huge success at that time, and Infiniti essentially REPLACED the I35 with the G35. There was a year or two overlap, but that's the usual phase-out timeframe. As far as Nissan Skyline is concerned, where can you actually buy a Skyline in this country? Oh wait, you can't. I'm not talking about the Japanese domestic market here, so it makes no difference what they call the G37 over there or vice/versa. I was not "picking" on the ES, I was simply stating that Infiniti or any other major luxury brand does not offer a model to compete with the ES, so it's irrelevant what its sales numbers are in comparison to the G37, 3 series, C, etc.
Infiniti hasn't sold the I35 in 7 years. We are now almost in 2011. Why are we talking about old car models from years and years ago that do not exist anymore? The ES is based off the Toyota Camry platform. Nissan's competitor to the Camry is the Altima. So when/if Nissan decides to offer an upscale version of the Altima under the Infiniti brand, then we can discuss which is the better car, which has better sales and why, etc.
The ES is based off the Toyota Camry platform. Nissan's competitor to the Camry is the Altima. So when/if Nissan decides to offer an upscale version of the Altima under the Infiniti brand, then we can discuss which is the better car, which has better sales and why, etc.
All I see is Dunnojack asked about M lease rates, I added my 2 cents and you and Hypnotik are irate for whatever reasons.
So to be honest I don't really care anymore. Continue to bicker. I hope to compile the results tomorrow so we can see the results. My apologies everyone for being so late with them this month.
Last edited by LexFather; 10-05-10 at 01:37 PM.
10-05-10, 01:39 PM
#45
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On another note, Lexus better get their act together. A lot of bad press, no new product and the HS have hurt it this year.
Expect the 4th quarter to be an incentive filled battle as BMW, Benz, Lexus look to be #1 in sales this year.
2011 might have Lexus lose the title. I need to evaluate what products are coming out from all 3 next year and what products are on the way out.
Expect the 4th quarter to be an incentive filled battle as BMW, Benz, Lexus look to be #1 in sales this year.
2011 might have Lexus lose the title. I need to evaluate what products are coming out from all 3 next year and what products are on the way out.