Nitrogen Enriched Gas... belive the hype?
04-04-09, 04:20 PM
#1
Nitrogen Enriched Gas... belive the hype?
So i started looking into this. it has nitrogen and nitrogen prevents burning. so was it good? i looked into it. although i have not found the answer to this, i have found several things interesting
1. the nitrogen enriched gas extends the life of the detergent in the burn cycle, allowing cleaner engines.
2. "it releases "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. "
sources:
green car congress
examiner
shell
feel free to discuss, i was not looking to save the trees or the enviroment, just from a performance standpoint. but it seems more harmful than good.
1. the nitrogen enriched gas extends the life of the detergent in the burn cycle, allowing cleaner engines.
2. "it releases "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. "
sources:
green car congress
examiner
shell
feel free to discuss, i was not looking to save the trees or the enviroment, just from a performance standpoint. but it seems more harmful than good.
04-04-09, 07:20 PM
#2
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So i started looking into this. it has nitrogen and nitrogen prevents burning. so was it good? i looked into it. although i have not found the answer to this, i have found several things interesting
1. the nitrogen enriched gas extends the life of the detergent in the burn cycle, allowing cleaner engines.
2. "it releases "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. "
sources:
green car congress
examiner
shell
feel free to discuss, i was not looking to save the trees or the enviroment, just from a performance standpoint. but it seems more harmful than good.
1. the nitrogen enriched gas extends the life of the detergent in the burn cycle, allowing cleaner engines.
2. "it releases "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. "
sources:
green car congress
examiner
shell
feel free to discuss, i was not looking to save the trees or the enviroment, just from a performance standpoint. but it seems more harmful than good.
As soon as I saw the sign at the Shell gas station I looked up Nitrogen in my North American Emergency Response Guidebook (I am a volunteer) found out it is non-flammable. If this is so you are now purchasing gasoline that has a gas that does not burn. Now IMHO this will probably reduce your gas milage also. I regard this as a scam to get you back to buy more gas faster.
04-04-09, 09:06 PM
#3
i think yall are assuming that the nitrogen is in its elemental form which is an inert gas. I really doubt that is the fact. Nitrogen is probably in one of the additive compounds. When its in compound form, you no longer have the inert qualities. You need sufficient quantities of nitrogen to make a fuel tank inert anyways, you need a lot of nitrogen to offset oxygen to prevent combustion
04-05-09, 12:25 AM
#5
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I highly doubt they are using nitrogen in its N2 form, as someone mentioned earlier, it is practically inert, the bonds are VERY HARD to break, thus making it not so hot for fuel. However if you use other forms of nitrogen, sure, it is plausible.
04-05-09, 12:37 AM
#6
"The Science
After digging through countless forums I found a very good source of educated attempts to uncover what this new gas really is by several science forum enthusiasts.
The following information is posted in a science forum that this fuel additive may be an amide of a free fatty acid which is made from increased recent agriculture developments. Amides of a free fatty acid are less powerful bases that are pretty stable and are great lubricants.
Amide's are also the lubricating ingredient in bio diesel, and there is a chance this nitrogen enriched gasoline contains the same formula in bio diesel gas. Being similar in nature to bio diesel additives, the formula acts similar and under warm temperatures yield fungi growth and can clog your fuel system. This formula may also be bad for paint and can eat through several plastic compositions as well. The burning affect is also said to release "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. A general sour opinion of this fuel is summarized by assuming the marketing attempt is a way to sell less eco friendly gas and generate more profit by the most additive and least fuel as possible.
The Good
Forced induction engines that are typically tuned from factory to run rich mixtures in order to stay cool are surely to bennefit from higher detergent level gasoline. Seafoam in addition to nitrogen enriched gasoline is a great way to fix engines suffering from signs of carbon build up. Older and high mileage vehicles will also bennefit from running increased detergent. Mixing detergent with gasoline helps decrease the amount of petroleum we use at the pump and through out the life of our vehicle. It will make engines run clean for longer periods of time, also resulting in less polution and strain on the environment. When engines get clogged with carbon and gunk, they tend to run extremely rich reducing the efficiency detrimentally while simultaneously creating more pollution."
plus once we add say heat and combustion, what happens to the thing chemically? it seems the side effects outweigh the benefits.
After digging through countless forums I found a very good source of educated attempts to uncover what this new gas really is by several science forum enthusiasts.
The following information is posted in a science forum that this fuel additive may be an amide of a free fatty acid which is made from increased recent agriculture developments. Amides of a free fatty acid are less powerful bases that are pretty stable and are great lubricants.
Amide's are also the lubricating ingredient in bio diesel, and there is a chance this nitrogen enriched gasoline contains the same formula in bio diesel gas. Being similar in nature to bio diesel additives, the formula acts similar and under warm temperatures yield fungi growth and can clog your fuel system. This formula may also be bad for paint and can eat through several plastic compositions as well. The burning affect is also said to release "NxOy", estimated to be 200 times worse than CO2 and will return to earth as acid rain. A general sour opinion of this fuel is summarized by assuming the marketing attempt is a way to sell less eco friendly gas and generate more profit by the most additive and least fuel as possible.
The Good
Forced induction engines that are typically tuned from factory to run rich mixtures in order to stay cool are surely to bennefit from higher detergent level gasoline. Seafoam in addition to nitrogen enriched gasoline is a great way to fix engines suffering from signs of carbon build up. Older and high mileage vehicles will also bennefit from running increased detergent. Mixing detergent with gasoline helps decrease the amount of petroleum we use at the pump and through out the life of our vehicle. It will make engines run clean for longer periods of time, also resulting in less polution and strain on the environment. When engines get clogged with carbon and gunk, they tend to run extremely rich reducing the efficiency detrimentally while simultaneously creating more pollution."
plus once we add say heat and combustion, what happens to the thing chemically? it seems the side effects outweigh the benefits.
04-05-09, 12:53 AM
#7
"
The Bad
Aside from the negative science above, the sports car community is concerned that nitrogen enriched fuels will harm your forced induction vehicle if is tuned to run 90-100% injector cycle. Some say that the minimum octane rating will still be the same, therefore no ECU adjustment will occur and it is perfectly okay to use this fuel. If the majority is correct, this fuel could cause lean conditions and your ECU will want to increase injector duty cycle to make up for non-flammable gas. If you are already running your maximum injector cycle and don't have enough to compensate for the change, a lean condition could possibly occur. Make sure you have plenty of injector duty left and keep an eye on your AFR's while running this fuel until further evidence is released confirming the science behind this new fuel.
Also, Shell's lack of in-depth press release is creating negative buzz on the forums. Most forum users agree this is just another marketing tactic to help boost sales. Some even say this stuff is really bad for your car and the environment. Other's say it's wonderful. Hopefully, a third party labratory will release some spectrometer readings to figure out exactly what is in this stuff would settle any discrepencies."
The Bad
Aside from the negative science above, the sports car community is concerned that nitrogen enriched fuels will harm your forced induction vehicle if is tuned to run 90-100% injector cycle. Some say that the minimum octane rating will still be the same, therefore no ECU adjustment will occur and it is perfectly okay to use this fuel. If the majority is correct, this fuel could cause lean conditions and your ECU will want to increase injector duty cycle to make up for non-flammable gas. If you are already running your maximum injector cycle and don't have enough to compensate for the change, a lean condition could possibly occur. Make sure you have plenty of injector duty left and keep an eye on your AFR's while running this fuel until further evidence is released confirming the science behind this new fuel.
Also, Shell's lack of in-depth press release is creating negative buzz on the forums. Most forum users agree this is just another marketing tactic to help boost sales. Some even say this stuff is really bad for your car and the environment. Other's say it's wonderful. Hopefully, a third party labratory will release some spectrometer readings to figure out exactly what is in this stuff would settle any discrepencies."
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04-05-09, 01:00 AM
#8
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haha im trying to dig back into my ochem knowledge. dont recall anything serious about reactions with amides, other than that they arent too reactive? certainly more reactive than your N2, however.
04-05-09, 11:07 AM
#10
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I like to think this, too.
To me, Shell's biggest competitor is Chevron. Chevron has their Techron additive in all grades of gasoline, whereas the V-power additive from Shell is found only in their Supreme Unleaded (somebody correct me if this has changed). Now suddenly comes nitrogen into all grades of gasoline?
To me, Shell's biggest competitor is Chevron. Chevron has their Techron additive in all grades of gasoline, whereas the V-power additive from Shell is found only in their Supreme Unleaded (somebody correct me if this has changed). Now suddenly comes nitrogen into all grades of gasoline?
04-05-09, 12:02 PM
#12
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I like to think this, too.
To me, Shell's biggest competitor is Chevron. Chevron has their Techron additive in all grades of gasoline, whereas the V-power additive from Shell is found only in their Supreme Unleaded (somebody correct me if this has changed). Now suddenly comes nitrogen into all grades of gasoline?
To me, Shell's biggest competitor is Chevron. Chevron has their Techron additive in all grades of gasoline, whereas the V-power additive from Shell is found only in their Supreme Unleaded (somebody correct me if this has changed). Now suddenly comes nitrogen into all grades of gasoline?
Car guru Ed Wallace on his radio show a few weeks back stated that nitrogen has been in use by several gas companies for some time now...Shell seems to be the leader in marketing!
Last edited by hughh; 04-05-09 at 12:11 PM.
04-05-09, 02:42 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
To me, Shell's biggest competitor is Chevron. Chevron has their Techron additive in all grades of gasoline, whereas the V-power additive from Shell is found only in their Supreme Unleaded (somebody correct me if this has changed). Now suddenly comes nitrogen into all grades of gasoline?
