Lexus GS-F is coming
12-05-08, 03:59 PM
#46
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Yeah the 1st and 2nd GS were awesome performance cars. Especially the Japanese spec GS1 with the supra engine.
Man, Toyota is fun by some old boring people. LF-A might be dead. IS-F had to be developed by Lexus engineers on their own free time. What a joke. Akio Toyoda needs to take over, that dude is the only one of the Toyota bosses who loves sport cars.
Man, Toyota is fun by some old boring people. LF-A might be dead. IS-F had to be developed by Lexus engineers on their own free time. What a joke. Akio Toyoda needs to take over, that dude is the only one of the Toyota bosses who loves sport cars.
12-05-08, 04:13 PM
#47
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As for the interior lacking wood, I don't think that will necessarily be the case. The S63 & S65 AMG's don't have any less wood trims than the regular S550, & in fact they have more leather inside as standard, like full-leather dash, & on the doors, which makes them more luxurious than the standard S550. Same with the Audi S8, they give you both wood trims or carbon fibre to pick from with the trims.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
The IS gets away with it because it is in the Lexus lineup as a sport-sedan model to start with. The GS might get away with it (time will tell) because it aims at a less conservative crowd than the LS. Maybe Henry or Andrew, among the LS enthusiasts here, might give one a look, but, in general, I just don't see much of a market for an LS-F. It would end up being like the VW Phaeton.
An argument, though, can be made that Mercedes manages to sell its top-line S-class cars in AMG form.....why not Lexus? True, but as I see it, it's apples and oranges. The type of driving that AMG models invite is more ingrained into those who buy upmarket German sedans than those of Lexus.
An argument, though, can be made that Mercedes manages to sell its top-line S-class cars in AMG form.....why not Lexus? True, but as I see it, it's apples and oranges. The type of driving that AMG models invite is more ingrained into those who buy upmarket German sedans than those of Lexus.
I see many AMG S-class buyers as getting them for the prestige more so than perfornance anyway, sure they like the power, but most of the true performance car enthusiasts won't be looking at large and heavy luxury sedans such as the S-class anyway. Many of the the AMG drivers have gray/graying hair & drive like old men in the slow lane.
To them it's just cool to drive an expensive sedan with a prestigeous name tag that can distinguish them from a regular Benz.
12-05-08, 04:17 PM
#48
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Yes, but the next generation SC does not have to be that way, even if it's a hardtop convertible, just look at the SL63/65 with Active Body Control as standard equipment.
12-05-08, 04:23 PM
#49
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Did I say anything about the body style? You mentioned exhaust, I replied about exhaust. Simple.
WHAT?!!!
Dude, I am done discussing with you until you actually went to a Lexus dealership, actually sat in an IS F and compared its interior to the standard IS...
This is ridiculous...
Since you took everything into consideration why didn't you mention that the IS F undercuts the RS4 in pricing by $10k? I don't care about you but I am more than willing to accept a so-called "messy" engine compartment for paying $10k less.
WHAT?!!!
Dude, I am done discussing with you until you actually went to a Lexus dealership, actually sat in an IS F and compared its interior to the standard IS...
This is ridiculous...
Since you took everything into consideration why didn't you mention that the IS F undercuts the RS4 in pricing by $10k? I don't care about you but I am more than willing to accept a so-called "messy" engine compartment for paying $10k less.
I looked seriously at the C63 and M3 before deciding on the F. The interior is way better in the F. Ask the other owners what they think of I-drive or Command. They rip their own companies on their forums.
The quad tips aren't even worth discussing. There are supercars, like you said, that have the same set-up. All of the comments that I have received are how cool they look.
The RS4 is over $100k here so it's not even in the same price category as the other three. With similar equipment the C63 is $7K more and the M3 a whopping $12K. Each of these vehicles are great cars. I don`t give a rat`s a** which car is going to win at the track (the F won`t but whoopty doo), they all have their own positives and negatives.
Again, it is typically not the owners of the other cars that display this type of criticism. It is usually people who don`t own any of these cars that like to slag them for attention. Owners of this caliber of car know that they are great driving machines and we are fortunate to own them.
Back on topic, I would be extremely interested if Lexus decided to produce a GS-F. One concern with the IS F, is whether or not Lexus will have something to progress to. BMW, MB and Audi all offer performance vehicles across their entire vehicle line-up. Now that I have had a taste of the F, the only option to enjoy more power on a large platform would be to switch to one of the other brands.
If Lexus truly wants to compete with the Germans on the performance end they will need to continue to develop the F line up. Until that happens, as I here far too often on the other forums, Lexus will lack the pedigree and credibility at the performance level. The IS F is a great first step and should only improve.
Here`s to hoping the F brand grows!
P.S. The LF-A needs to retain the F label somewhere in it`s name. Each of the manufacturer`s have their own dedicated performance label (ie. M, AMG, and RS) and Lexus needs to do the same.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-05-08 at 08:24 PM. Reason: He obviously has no idea what he is talking about and is talking out of his a** not appropriate
12-05-08, 04:36 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
IS-F, yes. GS-F, maybe, but I can't see much of a market for an LS-F. The chassis would be too stiff for the people who generally shop for, and buy, the LS, and the interior trim would probably lack wood......another LS hallmark.
The IS gets away with it because it is in the Lexus lineup as a sport-sedan model to start with. The GS might get away with it (time will tell) because it aims at a less conservative crowd than the LS. Maybe Henry or Andrew, among the LS enthusiasts here, might give one a look, but, in general, I just don't see much of a market for an LS-F. It would end up being like the VW Phaeton.
An argument, though, can be made that Mercedes manages to sell its top-line S-class cars in AMG form.....why not Lexus? True, but as I see it, it's apples and oranges. The type of driving that AMG models invite is more ingrained into those who buy upmarket German sedans than those of Lexus.
The IS gets away with it because it is in the Lexus lineup as a sport-sedan model to start with. The GS might get away with it (time will tell) because it aims at a less conservative crowd than the LS. Maybe Henry or Andrew, among the LS enthusiasts here, might give one a look, but, in general, I just don't see much of a market for an LS-F. It would end up being like the VW Phaeton.
An argument, though, can be made that Mercedes manages to sell its top-line S-class cars in AMG form.....why not Lexus? True, but as I see it, it's apples and oranges. The type of driving that AMG models invite is more ingrained into those who buy upmarket German sedans than those of Lexus.
Those cars don't have body work that looks like it came out of an Asian rice catalog. There is something called understated class that the IS-F missed the mark on
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
LOL, You know your stuff FKL!
Last edited by LexFather; 12-05-08 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Pic not needed
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12-05-08, 08:16 PM
#54
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Guys KNOCK OFF THE PERSONAL/SNIDE REMARKS. Report a post please if there is an issue.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-05-08 at 08:27 PM.
12-05-08, 08:21 PM
#55
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Those cars don't have body work that looks like it came out of an Asian rice catalog. There is something called understated class that the IS-F missed the mark on
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
However the IS interior trumps EVERYTHING in this class and only the Audi can be seriously compared in build quality. Reviews have said it and sitting inside all 4 for a couple minutes easily tells this story.
Yes, the Lexus engine with the cover off is not a work of art. Did you forget the part where the IS-F was not a planned product?
They literally stuffed the 5.0 from the LS 600h L inside. This was a skunkworks project done and got approved last minute. I do agree, its quite "uhhh" with the engine cover off and I much prefer the cleaner look of the RS4 in your picAs for reviews let us not forget to mention that EVO (the toughest mag maybe) gave the IS-F 5 STARS, its highest rating. Let us not also forget Top Ger mag (maybe the toughest mag) said themselves, it was basically a 4 way tie between the 4. When the writer was asked to pick one, he said "something draws him to the IS-F" it was his pick.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-05-08 at 08:29 PM.
12-05-08, 08:33 PM
#56
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Why is the 3GS not more succesful? I think its an awesome looking car, IMO its the original 4 door coupe. Plus Lexus quality and technology. And the new 350 and 460 engines are great. Why is it outsold so much by 5 series and E class? I really don't see what those two have to offer that GS doesn't.
1. Increased competition
2. While every other car in this class got bigger, the GS stayed the same size
3. Average marketing
4. Minimal lease deals
5. The ES/IS got better and stole some GS buyers.
6. V-8 GS isn't the powerhouse compared to the last model. The GS 350's engine is nearly perfect.
12-05-08, 08:49 PM
#57
Those cars don't have body work that looks like it came out of an Asian rice catalog. There is something called understated class that the IS-F missed the mark on
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
...That those interiors are better than the IS, even in standard form. They have character, class and elegance. The IS looks standard Toyota, something out of a Camry, with a big ungodly bubbly looking dash structure. The Audi interior, btw, blows the other three out of the water, as usual. The IS-F interior is littered with cheap grey plastic where as the BMW and MB use real carbon fiber. Doesn't mean Mercedes-Benz has some explaining to do with Japanese-like dash materials. Tisk Tisk. At least they hit a grand slam with the steering wheel (as did Audi). The Lexus also feels like a, well, Toyota. Take the weight of the doors, very light. Not heavy vault doors of the Germans. Some may like that, I'm not into it on a car of this calliber.
The first C AMG cars did not even remotely measure up to the BMW. I called the IS-F a "valliant first effort" for a reason. Just becuase they did better than Mercedes-Benz on their first try doesn't mean the other three haven't produced slightly superior, classier looking, cars, in my opinion.
I take everything into account, including attention to detail, where the IS-F fails in my mind. Compare the engine compartment of the Audi and Lexus. Audi has painted headers and real cabon fiber. The Lexus is a big mess of black plastic and wires. Tisk tisk. Maybe next time they will do it better.
In this class, Lexus needs to learn that attention matters. Subtle details, however small, are crucial to the overall package of the vehicle. The above picture shows the apparent motivation to create a truely beautiful automobile. Disparity between German and Japanese engineers I suppose.
Not only is is apparent that you have never driven an IS-F, but evidently you have never read any of the reviews either. Have you ever even seen one in person?
An opinion is an opinion, and I can respect that, but your post is full of straight up lies and BS.
12-05-08, 10:18 PM
#58
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I think the ES would probably have a shorter production cycle than the rest, since it should change with the Camry ?
I still highly doubt they will make a LS-F, but if they do, I think it should be turbo-charged V12. Why bother if it can't at least match S65 performance in hp and low-end torque ?
I still highly doubt they will make a LS-F, but if they do, I think it should be turbo-charged V12. Why bother if it can't at least match S65 performance in hp and low-end torque ?
12-05-08, 10:50 PM
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12-05-08, 11:11 PM
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Im sorry I have to agree with fkl, my c300 rental felt nicer than my IS did had more kick too. GS-F will be a flop by the time its out mb will have tt turbo diesel v8 in the new e amg. bmw is ditching high reving engines and the m5 will probably have a tweaked verison of the tt v8 thats going in the x6. lexus will come around dancing look at our new flashy car and be out sold.