Does your Lexus "ping"?
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Joined: May 2006
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From: FL
Does your Lexus "ping"?
I tried posting a question about this on the ES sub-forum a while back, and received no responses. So I'll open it up to everyone.
I have my '06 ES at the dealer to fix several items, and one of the issues is that the engine pings under load. You can't hear it from within the car unless you have the driver's window down, and are driving past some stationary objects, like a line of cars, or a close building. When you do get to hear it, it's pretty loud (relatively speaking). I actually read in the owner's manual that some engine noise like that is normal, but this seems very abnormal to me, like the fuel is being pre-detonated (i.e. "pinging").
My question to you guys with V6-equipped Lexi, is whether you've noticed anything similar on your cars? I have to call them back and discuss, as they think I'm going to just come and pick up the car. They claim that the tech "didn't find anything mechanically wrong", and I think that's just a cop-out.
I have my '06 ES at the dealer to fix several items, and one of the issues is that the engine pings under load. You can't hear it from within the car unless you have the driver's window down, and are driving past some stationary objects, like a line of cars, or a close building. When you do get to hear it, it's pretty loud (relatively speaking). I actually read in the owner's manual that some engine noise like that is normal, but this seems very abnormal to me, like the fuel is being pre-detonated (i.e. "pinging").
My question to you guys with V6-equipped Lexi, is whether you've noticed anything similar on your cars? I have to call them back and discuss, as they think I'm going to just come and pick up the car. They claim that the tech "didn't find anything mechanically wrong", and I think that's just a cop-out.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: NC
ES350 owner here. I haven't experienced this, however I haven't been paying attention while driving past a stationary object with my window down while loading the engine either. This kind of thing can be pretty subjective.
So far my engine sounds normal in all situations.
I assume you're using 91 octane fuel...
So far my engine sounds normal in all situations.
I assume you're using 91 octane fuel...
Thread Starter
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From: FL
I use premium 92, and there are 17K miles on the car. I haven't cleaned the plugs, as supposedly those aren't supposed to require maintenance until after 100,000 miles. I guess it wouldn't hurt to look though. In the "old days" I used to change plugs every 10K miles.
Still, the pinging noise would normally mean that the fuel is being ignited too early. An issue with compression, fuel octane, timing.
Still, the pinging noise would normally mean that the fuel is being ignited too early. An issue with compression, fuel octane, timing.
I have noticed this on my '05 RX330, and it only happens during the summer. I can sometimes hear it inside the car, and it pisses me off. The dealer just said, "Oh, use premium gas." Why should I have to when it takes regular? I tried it, and it didn't work.
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From: FL
I get the feeling that, by nature, this engine does ping. I picked the car up and they said that the computer wasn't throwing any fault codes, and that they couldn't find anything wrong mechanically. Not much I can do. At least I have it documented with them now, so if the engine ever does fail, my bases are covered.
I get the feeling that, by nature, this engine does ping. I picked the car up and they said that the computer wasn't throwing any fault codes, and that they couldn't find anything wrong mechanically. Not much I can do. At least I have it documented with them now, so if the engine ever does fail, my bases are covered.
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Call me the 1MZ/3MZ series guru. Pinging in the MZ series block is common, esp. due to the fact it's a high compression motor with weak knock sensors, seems to be a lot more common with the VVT-i motors. You may want to try a different brand of gas. I'm not going to get into a debate about the usage of Techron or additives, but using a good brand gasoline with good detergents (Top Tier) helps. It maybe a possibility you have high carbon build up that would require more than just over the counter fuel additives.
Edit: Also, are your running your car on AUTO climate (which usually triggers on the A/C) or just regular fan operation?
Edit: Also, are your running your car on AUTO climate (which usually triggers on the A/C) or just regular fan operation?
Thread Starter
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From: FL
Call me the 1MZ/3MZ series guru. Pinging in the MZ series block is common, esp. due to the fact it's a high compression motor with weak knock sensors, seems to be a lot more common with the VVT-i motors. You may want to try a different brand of gas. I'm not going to get into a debate about the usage of Techron or additives, but using a good brand gasoline with good detergents (Top Tier) helps. It maybe a possibility you have high carbon build up that would require more than just over the counter fuel additives.
Edit: Also, are your running your car on AUTO climate (which usually triggers on the A/C) or just regular fan operation?
Edit: Also, are your running your car on AUTO climate (which usually triggers on the A/C) or just regular fan operation?
I usually use either Hess, Mobil, or Shell... but rarely remain consistent from fill-up to fill-up. I'll experiment over the coming months, and stick with a single brand until I find one that seems to work the best.
Carbon buildup certainly may be an issue. This engine loves to spend its entire life at very low RPMs by refusing to downshift, and by getting into top gear as quickly as possible. It's also spent the majority of its life doing relatively short in-town commutes. I'm also going to try some fuel system cleaner, see if that does anything.
As far as the HVAC, I have it on manual operation all the way. I hate the car trying to tell me what I want, because it usually reacts incorrectly. The fan is always on, and the A/C is only used when it's hot and humid out.
Again, thanks for the comments.
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From: FL
Should I have something different? 
It still has the original, stock air filter. I checked it at the last oil change, and it still looked clean. I'll check the MAF too. Thanks!
It still has the original, stock air filter. I checked it at the last oil change, and it still looked clean. I'll check the MAF too. Thanks!
You might also want to check the radiator for debris blocking the fins, check your coolant level, and test your radiator cap to ensure it is holding the prescribed pressure. Cooling system issues can easily lead to preignition.
Pinging is also "the sound of economy" as long as it isn't excessive or lead up to detonation. BTW, there is no such thing as predetonation. Either you have preignition - pinging - or you have detonation - knock. Knock kills an engine in seconds. Preignition only kills an engine if it is a precursor to detonation, which isn't always true. Preignition is most commonly caused by hot spots in the cylinder which cause the a/f mixture to ignite before the spark. Detonation is a result of two or more flame fronts colliding in the combustion chamber and causing a sudden pressure spike well before the piston is in the right position to take advantage of full pressure. The resulting vibration from detonation can crack pistons, rings, and cylinders. It is not always audible (AMHIK) and is more often than not a terminal condition.
Pinging is also "the sound of economy" as long as it isn't excessive or lead up to detonation. BTW, there is no such thing as predetonation. Either you have preignition - pinging - or you have detonation - knock. Knock kills an engine in seconds. Preignition only kills an engine if it is a precursor to detonation, which isn't always true. Preignition is most commonly caused by hot spots in the cylinder which cause the a/f mixture to ignite before the spark. Detonation is a result of two or more flame fronts colliding in the combustion chamber and causing a sudden pressure spike well before the piston is in the right position to take advantage of full pressure. The resulting vibration from detonation can crack pistons, rings, and cylinders. It is not always audible (AMHIK) and is more often than not a terminal condition.