At this point I will agree to disagree as I won't budge and you won't. I do appreciate the fact you know your company

 

Even based on the model that GS has direct 1 to 1 comparison, GS still lost out to BMW despite being significantly cheaper. I am simply responding to your comment that taking out the 525i, that 5 series sales would tell a different story, when i know it is not true.

Automatic does not mean the car handles any differently nor people don't track automatic BMW. This is where you are mistaken. I used to track my S/C automatic 530i regularly. There are a lot of BMW driver track automatic cars too. In addition you would be suprise to know that more V8 E60 5 series was sold with manual/SMG instead of automatic.

I am not looking to pick a fight and debate. I am simply pointing out that you are wrong on many of your comments. You are the one that is over reacting by bolding the text and changing the color.

 

I don't work for BMW. I would appreciate that you don't make comment as such.

The reason that i know so much about it. Is because I had 4 friend of mine that took advantage of that special deal on the 545i last year. Each paid less than $700 a month for a loaded 545i lease.

I was thinking of join them but since M5 was getting close and really don't need another car. So did not take advantage of that.

Yes i do know some folks within BMW group. That's how i know that 550i went into production on week of 8/22/05, because I was bugging people from dingolfing daily on status of my M5 (which was build 2 weeks ahead of schedule). (if you have waited 3 plus year for a car, you tend to lose self-control).

I called NYK daily when the car was in transit, pushed my friend to get my car released from VPC sooner out of oxnard, and called trucking company daily until my car hit dealer mid october. Yes, so I do know when the 550i showed up in the west coast, not because I worked for BMW. I was going nuts waiting for my M5. (I actually drove down to Oxnard from Bay area to join BMWCCA tour of VPC in oxnard so i can see my car in person while it is being prepped).

I have nothing against you or lexus or this forum. Just like to set the record straight.

 

Days supply of cars can mean a lot of things... doesn't necessarily mean that they are really discount them a lot. It's also very variable from month to month. For Infiniti, the days supply of cars in January 2006 was 46 days, February 2006 was 69 days. Production and delivery (manufacturer to dealer) figures vary a lot from month to month.

The RL's days supply of cars was 35 in February 2006. We all know the HUGE discounts that you can get on RLs.

That said, you can get pretty big discounts on most Infinitis, except maybe the M and the G35 Coupe.

 

I am not saying that the GS would sell more than the 5 even with the 525 out. I was saying it does give a tremendous sales advantage, having 3 engine choices (models) as well as Wagons and even M cars. The GS isn't close to matching the 5 range. I am also not saying, that if there was less choice, that the GS would outsell the 5. I for one am a HUGE believer, that above 40k, image plays HUGE on car purchases and the 5> GS when it comes to image.

From a business standpoint, BMW is the clear winner here. Selling 180hp 525s for 50k loaded and 550s for 75k loaded, and 100k M5s. They all share the same basics. So this is just a huge profit maker for the company.

Lexus has a long way to go, heck, the first GS didn't even offer a V-8. This is just the 3rd model cycle. And while GS sales are up in Europe, without smaller engines and diesals, it will never be a serious threat there.

As for me being wrong, your wrong I am stating my views on this subject, they are not written in stone. Your not right either, you just made as good of an arguement as me from your view.

 

I wasn't trying to imply you work for BMW. I was saying, you know your stuff about the brand you own. Step away from the keyboard!

 

The pricing of the 5, M & GS may not tell the whole story at all, when a large portion of luxury car sales nowadays are leased. Looks like GS are not getting good lease rates from day one. From reading these boards, it's apparent you can get better lease rates for the 5 series & the M than the GS, so the difference between the 545/550 & the GS4, 530 & the GS3 etc. may not be significant at all when you lease. Yes,you have to factor in the 4 year free maintainence from BMW is worth at least a couple thousand dollars too, plus the option of taking advantage of the big discount on European delivery. The advantage of the M35/45 is even bigger since they're priced lower in the first place. I'd be interested if the lease rates for the GS will get better when the new engines come out.

 

Not to bust in too much but would you mind if I add two?

LS350
LS450h

If you look at the S class in Europe, they sell a wide range of models, including diesels, that make a much better balanced line. I fear that Lexus has GMitis where the LS is the top and has to have the big V8 and if it gets a hybrid, it has to be a 600h. The 350 I believe is going to have the better part of 300hp which is exactly what the LS has now. So an LS350 might have 300hp, not bad mileage, and save a few pounds. I would think twice about an LS350 vs LS460 but if my driving were mainly in town or crappy congested freeway commuting, the LS350 might be just what the doctor ordered.

Bimmer has known for a long time how to win magazine comparos, bring a gun to a knife fight, in other words a manual transmission. Especially with smaller motors. I doubt anyone will ever see a car comparo with a 525 with automatic up against a GS350 even though that might be the fair price comparison. Why won't you see it? Because bimmer would lose.

 

Ok, Ok, enough about the 5 series and the GS!!!! (I am secretly Dave here....)

Back on topic...

Ron - if they have indeed slowed production of the GS - that's because its sales have been declining. However, since there seems to be a pretty strong rumor that the GS430 is barely being produced right now, I would say that is because Lexus believes the GS450 will be the car people want not the GS430. THIS car is available next month I believe.

Nobody here is talking abou the GS300 however. If once again it is true that production has slowed on that vehicle as well, it is because they are not selling as well. The new GS350 is over six months away. I really don't know many manufacturers that stop production of a car six months in advance of the new one - unless they have tons of inventory built up and that doesn't seem to be the case either!

 

I would be surprised if bimmer made a change in V8 that would be anywhere near the difference the occured when the 5l was introduced any time soon. If they do, they will not be doing themselves much of a favor or performing simple consolidation or one of their ongoing attempts at cost reduction. Current engines, from anyone, are about as efficient as they can get. If you wring out more hp, you will be throwing more gas in it. Their customer values performance but I think you can see how their sales are going even though the majority of their image, say in the 5 series, is from the M5 and 550 most definitely not from the 525 or 530.

I had three five series and two sevens. I also just spent almost a week with a new 7 right after Christmas. The reason I wouldn't consider them is not because I feel bimmers zen is confused over what to do with the car. It is just the fact that I don't like the car. I have no problem with attributes of cars that may not be perfect or as good as could be done. I do have a problem spending say $80K on a car and being annoyed by it. I was never one of those bimmer owners who based a lot of their ownership decision by their delusion that the rest of the world admires them for their car buying expertise because they roll up with a roundel. If you look at the number of 3 series and 5 series that bimmer is selling and then look at 7 series sales it isn't just that they aren't doing a good job transitioning customers within the family. They are failing miserably in moving customers within their brand into the top sedan. Que sera sera. Lexus was built around the LS after all and yes, the new S class also outshines the 7 badly. It is amazing how quickly the 7 aged. If Lexus is confused with a model it is very likely the GS. But they do seem to sell them regardless. And I maintain that the GS350 will be very competitive with the 525 which is what it will probably price compete with, while the GS460 will be more than competitive with the 550. Unfortunately, bimmer will have no comparable model to the GS450h unless they can get their consortia with General Motors to produce the drive train for them.

As for your car purchases as you age, who knows what you will go for. I personally don't commute very far in my Lexus either. I use my PC12 for that.

 

Hey Doug, do you base your comment on the GS350 on anything? I have already seen the RX350 advertised but no one seems to really be saying when that one would get here. The 460 will definitely not beat the new LS to market and may trail it by some time and that might mean a year from now. But it seems like the 350 might make it sooner.

As for the sales, who knows? I can't claim to have watched these numbers very much but the GS doesn't seem to be setting the world on fire. I think you could pretty easily get three or four thousand off on a GS4 while getting 2K off on a 550 is about the best I have heard of around here. I personally think that Lexus did serious damage to the GS by introducing it without the new motors. This gen GS may never do much in sales because Lexus opted to make the 460 part of what would be so special about the next LS. Que sera sera, the GS isn't on my list anyway.

PS, How many tons of inventory do you need to have if you are only selling 275 GS4s a month to not want to make very many more?

 

Is it just me or does BMW and Lexus print their V-8 and V-6 5/GS numbers and no one else? Audi, Benz and Infiniti all combine the numbers, so we have no idea how each model sold

Sigh

 

does anyone have a quick side by side comparison of IS sales compared to 3er and C-class and G35 and all the other ones

 

C-CLASS 2,976

S60 1,870

IS 3,882

G35 Sedan 2,891

G35 Coupe 1,643

TL * 5,169

325i (E90) 3,682
325i (E46) 0
325Ci 311
325Ci convertible 294
325i sports wagon 0
325xi (E90) 1,385
325xi (E46) 0
325xi sports wagon (E90) 250
325xi sports wagon (E46) 0
330i (E90) 1,575
330i (E46) 0
330Ci 182
330Ci convertible 339
330xi (E90) 858
330xi (E46) 0
M3 168
M3 convertible 96

3 Series 9,140

A4 2,096

Someone can clean that up

 

How would I put the following into a nice format? Is there an easy HTML-like code to use?

Acura TL Sedan Luxury Mid-size Near-luxury 2006 February 5169
Acura TSX Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 2674
Audi A4 Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 2533
BMW 3-series Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 9140
Cadillac CTS Sedan Luxury Mid-size Near-luxury 2006 February 4109
Infiniti G35 Sedan Luxury Mid-size Near-luxury 2006 February 4534
Jaguar X-type Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 483
Lexus ES Sedan Luxury Mid-size Near-luxury 2006 February 3223
Lexus IS Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 3882
MB C-class Sedan Luxury Compact Near-luxury 2006 February 2976