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I'm not 100% sure but I believe the Escalade was in the works when the Navi came out, but first is first yes... the Navigator beat it out.
They may have rushed it out faster?
No, it wasn't. They rushed the Escalade 100% because of the Navigator. Thats why it was such a slapped together rebrand of the Tahoe. The Navigator alone caused Lincoln to overtake Cadillac in total sales.
Jill makes a good point, the LX450 predated the Navigator also but it was the Navigator that really kicked that segment into the mainstream
No, it wasn't. They rushed the Escalade 100% because of the Navigator. Thats why it was such a slapped together rebrand of the Tahoe. The Navigator alone caused Lincoln to overtake Cadillac in total sales.
Jill makes a good point, the LX450 predated the Navigator also but it was the Navigator that really kicked that segment into the mainstream
LOL Jill is correct! Actually it was Toyota that was first! LX450 came out in 1995.
The Yukon Denali came out just a year after the Navi (so GM was already engineering more luxurious SUV), and I'm sure the Escalade was planned but yes... they had to rush it out. It did have very nice leather that was top notch, the first Escalade... that was one positive about it.
The Navigator was also a terrible job just FWIW, all it had was a nice wood steering wheel inside, pure Expedition otherwise.
See below lol
That is a pretty pitiful attempt as well, I don't think it had leather nearly as nice as the first Escalade.
But the Navigator was wildly successful...back at the time it was pretty nice. Lexus was first but historians credit the Navigator with being the model that make people notice and moved the industry.
Kind of like Honda was first to the market with a Japanese luxury car but nobody credits Acura or the Legend with what they credit Lexus and the LS400 with.
They sold lots of those shitty first gen Escalades too....
Then the second gen came out and it was game over, IMO at least. It was faster and more powerful than everything by kind of a lot, other than ML 55, etc. etc. For example it had 115hp more than the LX470 of the time...lol. Yes, it's correct the interiors in 800s weren't the greatest in history but they sure sold every single one they made.
Lexus is like an athlete that has all the talent in the world and all the resources to become the greatest but doesn’t have the motivation, the discipline or mentality to become the best.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Chop to it then, issue is that Toyota never made anything truely great or world beating. Because of that no one will take them seriously as an aspirational brand, VAG has so many more landmark cars it's hilarious to see Toyota attempt to challenge them with an appliance brand.
you guys, just because toyota/lexus doesn't make vehicles YOU like doesn't mean they aren't doing great things for people who don't like super flashy things or rocket fast vehicles. can you please cut back the toyota/lexus trashing? they are very SUCCESSFUL. that's what business is about.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Yep they are indeed successful but not a single thing you mentioned is world beating.
Toyota has never once made a superlative vehicle.
respectfully, perhaps you're in the wrong forum. you make it clear though that bragging rights and an air of superiority are important to you. you certainly have a fine fleet of well maintained 10+ year old cars.
and VAG can't compete with rolls royce or bugatti - does that make them losers? of course not.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
I can't believe someone can be so clueless so confidently...
dunning kruger at its finest.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Back OT, now that the LC is dead there is not one Lexus car/truck that I would even buy nor even desire. That's f------ pathetic pardon my French.
just because they don't appeal to you doesn't make their line-up pathetic. the tx for example, may be a front wheel drive derived 3 row suv that's not super fancy, but it's EXACTLY what lexus needed and apparently doing VERY well. i actually think it's front dash and center console is REALLY nice, probably because i don't care about wood, leather, and blingy chrome accents.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
I can still see the appeal of the GX and LX. If you want a luxurious off road based SUV but want something more reliable than a Defender, GX. LX if you want something luxurious and BOF but not as big as a GM SUV. TX is a great family 3 row near-luxury product, but not enthusiast level or on par with a X7 or GLS or Q7 etc
exactly... vehicles that may not be right for you, me, or lots of others, but that doesn't make them bad. i've certainly voiced my criticisms of all those but if someone told me i HAD to drive a GX, LX, or TX, it wouldn't exactly be terrible!
striker... the phaeton was indeed a LOADED luxury car - very fancy, and essentially the vw version of the A8's. but selling it under the VW brand was beyond dumb. you do know what volkswagen means, right? people's car. not some snooty gray poupon mobile.
the phaeton was a complete failure in the marketplace, so by that standard is wasn't successful.
about lexus... they've always sold WAY MORE mainstream premium vehicles than their top end and yes, their top end cannot compete head to head with the top end of the german luxury car companies. but that top end is the halo part and without bmw/audi/mb more mainstream vehicles (3/4/5/6/C/E) they wouldn't be able to stay in business. and bmw/audi/mb low end is pretty bad, lol. i'd rather drive a ux than a q3 or bmw 1 series.
Amazingly Lexus/Toyota saw this suv market coming. The LX 450 wasn’t groundbreaking, pretty much a rebadge but it quickly became the best selling luxury SUV then. It was all the rage in the cool circles.
Cadillac at the time didn’t even want a SUV. They felt the market wasn’t luxury and wasn’t fitting for the brand. They quickly rebadged the Yukon Denali to satisfy dealers and it immediately was a hit.
Ford did a much better job differentiating the Naviagator at the time and it was the #1 choice back then. Also larger. Lincoln had a hit.
Going back to Toyota/Lexus the RAV-4/CR-V were the first unibody suvs. Game changers. The RX was the first unibody luxury crossover and doubled Lexus sales almost immediately. Today you have to credit the RX for the very luxury unibody crossover few have today.
The ML predates the RX by a year but was body on frame. They moved to unibody since the second gen.
The X5 was the first sporty luxury suv (they called it SAV back then for activity) being RWD based.
They sold lots of those shitty first gen Escalades too....
No doubt, but if not for the Navigator it possibly wouldn't exist.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
exactly... vehicles that may not be right for you, me, or lots of others, but that doesn't make them bad. i've certainly voiced my criticisms of all those but if someone told me i HAD to drive a GX, LX, or TX, it wouldn't exactly be terrible!
If I could easily get my hands on a TX550h+ I would seriously consider it to replace the Pacifica.
about lexus... they've always sold WAY MORE mainstream premium vehicles than their top end and yes, their top end cannot compete head to head with the top end of the german luxury car companies. but that top end is the halo part and without bmw/audi/mb more mainstream vehicles (3/4/5/6/C/E) they wouldn't be able to stay in business. and bmw/audi/mb low end is pretty bad, lol. i'd rather drive a ux than a q3 or bmw 1 series.
Totally agree. Like I've said before I wouldn't begrudge them that downmarket stuff if they ALSO made some enthusiast level stuff.
you guys, just because toyota/lexus doesn't make vehicles YOU like doesn't mean they aren't doing great things for people who don't like super flashy things or rocket fast vehicles. can you please cut back the toyota/lexus trashing? they are very SUCCESSFUL. that's what business is about.
respectfully, perhaps you're in the wrong forum. you make it clear though that bragging rights and an air of superiority are important to you. you certainly have a fine fleet of well maintained 10+ year old cars.
and VAG can't compete with rolls royce or bugatti - does that make them losers? of course not.
dunning kruger at its finest.
just because they don't appeal to you doesn't make their line-up pathetic. the tx for example, may be a front wheel drive derived 3 row suv that's not super fancy, but it's EXACTLY what lexus needed and apparently doing VERY well. i actually think it's front dash and center console is REALLY nice, probably because i don't care about wood, leather, and blingy chrome accents.
exactly... vehicles that may not be right for you, me, or lots of others, but that doesn't make them bad. i've certainly voiced my criticisms of all those but if someone told me i HAD to drive a GX, LX, or TX, it wouldn't exactly be terrible!
striker... the phaeton was indeed a LOADED luxury car - very fancy, and essentially the vw version of the A8's. but selling it under the VW brand was beyond dumb. you do know what volkswagen means, right? people's car. not some snooty gray poupon mobile.
the phaeton was a complete failure in the marketplace, so by that standard is wasn't successful.
about lexus... they've always sold WAY MORE mainstream premium vehicles than their top end and yes, their top end cannot compete head to head with the top end of the german luxury car companies. but that top end is the halo part and without bmw/audi/mb more mainstream vehicles (3/4/5/6/C/E) they wouldn't be able to stay in business. and bmw/audi/mb low end is pretty bad, lol. i'd rather drive a ux than a q3 or bmw 1 series.
I mean what do you want me to say??
I don't like the lineup. I wouldn't buy any new Lexus they just don't appeal to me. Of course they're successful but they're turning into Infiniti and Acura when they used to really build some of the best cars on Earth.
Their top end absolutely competed with Germany and everyone at one time.
LS? Dead.
GS? Dead. Including GSF
RC? Dead
V8 IS? Dead
I don't like the lineup. I wouldn't buy any new Lexus they just don't appeal to me. Of course they're successful but they're turning into Infiniti and Acura when they used to really build some of the best cars on Earth.
Their top end absolutely competed with Germany and everyone at one time.
LS? Dead.
GS? Dead. Including GSF
RC? Dead
V8 IS? Dead
LC? Dead
While I too mourn that vehicles let us also acknowledge Century the brand is coming.
Whaaaaaat? This is true!!! I had no idea!!!!!! What the **** are they thinking????? LEX-US has such a luxurious ring to it. Totally devaluing the brand.
Today you have to credit the RX for the very luxury unibody crossover few have today.
i had an original rx and it was EXCELLENT for its time and very innovative. the ‘german’ Mercedes ML made in Alabama was a total joke in comparison with HORRENDOUS quality problems!
The X5 was the first sporty luxury suv (they called it SAV back then for activity) being RWD based.
original x5 was pretty great too for its time, but WAY more expensive. and it still a great vehicle now.
….. how about that?
