Refresh W223 S Class Thread
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: Ohio
This is all just your opinion vs mine lol. I've been driving my LS430 for 14 years and still drive it all the time, it's all top notch in there trust me.
Yes an S-Class is still "king", absolutely. But I'd rather have a GM Cadillac Escalade V than any S-Class, even an AMG for example. It's not how it was.
Back then I would buy an S-Class and not even consider anything else, absolutely positively.
Your preferences just as mine are opinions. A W126 IMO beat everything in its day.
A 560SEL was close to 70 grand at one point, I'm pretty sure.
Yes an S-Class is still "king", absolutely. But I'd rather have a GM Cadillac Escalade V than any S-Class, even an AMG for example. It's not how it was.
Back then I would buy an S-Class and not even consider anything else, absolutely positively.
Your preferences just as mine are opinions. A W126 IMO beat everything in its day.
A 560SEL was close to 70 grand at one point, I'm pretty sure.
Heck even the LS600 when maxed out still lacked vs its contemporaries, my car(s) have all metal controls, speaker grills, leather literally everywhere including under the seats and on the seat rails, wood that is bookmatched down the center of the car, plus a much higher grade headliner. The LS600 gets a leather dash and upper doors at best....
Lexus never once even offered bookmatched wood on anything they made
Last edited by Striker223; Jan 30, 2026 at 03:49 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,190
Likes: 530
From: Knoxville, TN
LOL an UL LS430 is every bit as nice as any W220 inside, if not nicer. The leather even went behind the door handle of the glove box, let alone behind the door pulls. The wood was burned into black at the edges, better than anything I've ever seen from MB. The Alacantra headliner looks at least as nice as others I've seen in my lifetime in other cars.
IDK what book matched means but all LS430s used the same tree for the wood.
I wish my car had the leather and wood upgrade, double paned windows and soft close doors..... but that's it. You had to be stuck with the ML and screen which is horrendous now, that's why I wanted a base car. It was dated in 2012 when I bought it, that Nav.
IDK what book matched means but all LS430s used the same tree for the wood.
I wish my car had the leather and wood upgrade, double paned windows and soft close doors..... but that's it. You had to be stuck with the ML and screen which is horrendous now, that's why I wanted a base car. It was dated in 2012 when I bought it, that Nav.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,383
Likes: 1,801
From: Ohio
LOL an UL LS430 is every bit as nice as any W220 inside, if not nicer. The leather even went behind the door handle of the glove box, let alone behind the door pulls. The wood was burned into black at the edges, better than anything I've ever seen from MB. The Alacantra headliner looks at least as nice as others I've seen in my lifetime in other cars.
IDK what book matched means but all LS430s used the same tree for the wood.
I wish my car had the leather and wood upgrade, double paned windows and soft close doors..... but that's it. You had to be stuck with the ML and screen which is horrendous now, that's why I wanted a base car. It was dated in 2012 when I bought it, that Nav.
IDK what book matched means but all LS430s used the same tree for the wood.
I wish my car had the leather and wood upgrade, double paned windows and soft close doors..... but that's it. You had to be stuck with the ML and screen which is horrendous now, that's why I wanted a base car. It was dated in 2012 when I bought it, that Nav.
And as far as leather goes....what about inside the box and in the rear console and metal down into the cup holders? The entire insides of the door pockets? Seat sides/back/rails/headrest? Rear shelf?
Does it have hard plastic for the seatbelt adjusters? Buttons? Overhead console? Door buttons? Or it's it all coated in soft touch material? Is your sunroof blind fully powered both ways and is the rear view mirror memory and power?
Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW ALL offered stuff like that concurrent with the LS430 on top of AWD, super advanced suspensions, crazy powertrains and a huge stack of other features Lexus never did. The LS460/600 helped to close the gap but then they just stopped trying for some insane reason when they were so close...
I'm still pissed off to this day I don't have an LSF with AWD and the new 4.0 engine Toyota had ready. I would have dropped $125k for that back in 2020 and it was literally the only reason I held out as long as I did after getting my first taste of a luxury car with my 02 LS430. When they canceled that I went to other brands
Last edited by Striker223; Jan 30, 2026 at 05:39 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,190
Likes: 530
From: Knoxville, TN
The fact you have never heard of bookmatching wood is kind of my point. Lexus just never did things on that level so no one who hasn't been around the true flagships has even seen it
And as far as leather goes....what about inside the box and in the rear console and metal down into the cup holders? The entire insides of the door pockets? Seat sides/back/rails/headrest? Rear shelf?
Does it have hard plastic for the seatbelt adjusters? Buttons? Overhead console? Door buttons? Or it's it all coated in soft touch material? Is your sunroof blind fully powered both ways and is the rear view mirror memory and power?
Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW ALL offered stuff like that concurrent with the LS430 on top of AWD, super advanced suspensions, crazy powertrains and a huge stack of other features Lexus never did. The LS460/600 helped to close the gap but then they just stopped trying for some insane reason when they were so close...
I'm still pissed off to this day I don't have an LSF with AWD and the new 4.0 engine Toyota had ready. I would have dropped $125k for that back in 2020 and it was literally the only reason I held out as long as I did after getting my first taste of a luxury car with my 02 LS430. When they canceled that I went to other brands
And as far as leather goes....what about inside the box and in the rear console and metal down into the cup holders? The entire insides of the door pockets? Seat sides/back/rails/headrest? Rear shelf?
Does it have hard plastic for the seatbelt adjusters? Buttons? Overhead console? Door buttons? Or it's it all coated in soft touch material? Is your sunroof blind fully powered both ways and is the rear view mirror memory and power?
Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW ALL offered stuff like that concurrent with the LS430 on top of AWD, super advanced suspensions, crazy powertrains and a huge stack of other features Lexus never did. The LS460/600 helped to close the gap but then they just stopped trying for some insane reason when they were so close...
I'm still pissed off to this day I don't have an LSF with AWD and the new 4.0 engine Toyota had ready. I would have dropped $125k for that back in 2020 and it was literally the only reason I held out as long as I did after getting my first taste of a luxury car with my 02 LS430. When they canceled that I went to other brands
Lexus does buttons better than anyone. (or they did)
Lexus does buttery ***** better than anyone. (or they did)
There were not one but two leather upgrades in the LS430.
There was no high performance version but the car gave up nothing to its peers in luxury and suppleness.
I'll argue to the grave that an UL LS430 is better inside than the W220 you mentioned. W220 was a cost-cut Mercedes. LS430 was crazily overbuilt. Hence them still all over the place. I saw 3 today. I know your 12 cylinder Phaeton is the most reliable luxury car ever conceived, but I sure don't see a lot of 20-26 year old ones out there.
Last edited by AJT123; Jan 30, 2026 at 06:08 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,383
Likes: 1,801
From: Ohio
Lol Lexus does wood better than anyone. (or they did)
Lexus does buttons better than anyone. (or they did)
Lexus does buttery ***** better than anyone. (or they did)
There were not one but two leather upgrades in the LS430.
There was no high performance version but the car gave up nothing to its peers in luxury and suppleness.
I'll argue to the grave that an UL LS430 is better inside than the W220 you mentioned. W220 was a cost-cut Mercedes. LS430 was crazily overbuilt. Hence them still all over the place. I saw 3 today.
Lexus does buttons better than anyone. (or they did)
Lexus does buttery ***** better than anyone. (or they did)
There were not one but two leather upgrades in the LS430.
There was no high performance version but the car gave up nothing to its peers in luxury and suppleness.
I'll argue to the grave that an UL LS430 is better inside than the W220 you mentioned. W220 was a cost-cut Mercedes. LS430 was crazily overbuilt. Hence them still all over the place. I saw 3 today.
No they never coated their buttons in soft torch or used metal
The top level leather in an LS430 is below the base leather of any 12 cyl car in terms of coverage and only debatably the same grade. I not certain if the LS430 has a full analine option or not so I'll just say I'm not sure, if they don't then it's below the competition.
The lack of a serious engine and advanced system has plagued Lexus to this day in many ways
Look up the interior of a W220 S600 and tell me in what way the XF30 compares.....remember, the day I bought my LS430 I needed to pull myself away from an AMG pack S600 literally right next to it. I abstained out of fear I wouldn't be able to handle the ownership costs at the time but in retrospect I should have went with the S600, it would certainly still be in my fleet today as it was 1:5 for its year that has the AMG pack on a non-S65
Last edited by Striker223; Jan 30, 2026 at 06:13 PM.
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CL Community Team
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From: US
All new designs eventually will work themselves out. On a brighter side, this change is not that dramatic. It will sell and owners will have no issue accepting it. I'm sure if the grille is your issue, others will see the same and an aftermarket one will be made.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,224
Likes: 256
From: New York
LS430 post refresh is one of the best luxury cars ever built.
My parents had one when it was new, my dad still misses that car.
It was a huge step up compared to W220 and E65 7series of that time.
The build quality was next level and even the tech was very advanced.
The W222 Sclass is the equivalent of that car for the modern luxury sedans. It was just built to a very high standard and has timeless design inside and out.
My parents had one when it was new, my dad still misses that car.
It was a huge step up compared to W220 and E65 7series of that time.
The build quality was next level and even the tech was very advanced.
The W222 Sclass is the equivalent of that car for the modern luxury sedans. It was just built to a very high standard and has timeless design inside and out.
Last edited by RNM GS3; Feb 2, 2026 at 11:46 AM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: New York
But in 20yrs most cars will be autonomous so we can chill and watch our VR device or whatever the next social media product will be.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,840
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
The W222 Sclass is the equivalent of that car for the modern luxury sedans. It was just built to a very high standard and has timeless design inside and out.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,190
Likes: 530
From: Knoxville, TN
1Mmm, having had one I don't know that I would go to that level. I loved my W222 S Class but it wasn't perfect. I had a wind noise intrusion issue that could never be solved, I chased rattles and stuff in it. Exterior build finish was surprisingly bad in a few places. Then there was the massive valve cover repair before 50k miles that required the whole front be disassembled...great car but nowhere near as perfect as the LS400/LS430 was, and quite frankly my LS460s were better built in some ways.
My SL, the LS430 doesn't have better exterior build quality. I'd say they're about equal... Lexus has tighter gaps but I like the way the gaps are in the MB.
Both have astounding exterior build quality.
Last edited by AJT123; Feb 2, 2026 at 02:39 PM.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Exterior finish and paint quality is definitely better in my W223 than the W222. I would say the 223 is Lexus level.
Last edited by SW17LS; Feb 2, 2026 at 02:42 PM.