Oh forgot you're a Eurocentric car guy. Nvm, you are always right.

 

Nope I started as domestic, went Japanese, and then went euro because I just went toward what is better.

Try using an actual argument vs what I said about the objective superiority of the Golf vs some one off corolla instead of using a logical fallacy attack on me next time lol!


That the whole issue with those who are Toyota captured, Toyota does something that has been normal from other brands for DECADES and it's suddenly a revolution! The last time Toyota was on the cutting edge was when the XF40 and LFA came out

 

I understand your confusion regarding the Prius comment, so let me clarify further.

It's perplexing to see how Germany and other manufacturers transitioned from ICE vehicles to electric vehicles (EVs) without acknowledging the importance of an intermediate solution. Despite receiving a decade-long warning, German brands opted not to invest in effective strong hybrid technology, instead focusing on less efficient mild hybrids and heavy, expensive plug-in hybrids.

Traditionally, German P2 plug-in hybrids (PHVs) operated only in "blended mode" instead of pure EV mode. While their latest generation features larger batteries for improved EV operation, you do need/want to prioritize fuel economy in a performance vehicle. However, in a luxury vehicle context, the P2 layout lacks the smoothness of a power-split system.

Regarding the Prius, serial-parallel hybrids allow for simultaneous regenerative braking and electric drive. A more aggressive regenerative strategy doesn’t heavily impact MPG because it enables the engine to operate at a more efficient point. This may result in missed opportunities for kinetic energy recovery due to a higher state of charge in the battery, but the sophisticated F1-style KERS typically only contributes about 20% of MPG gains in serial-parallel hybrids.

So, what does this mean? Parallel hybrids, much like the German systems, waste fuel to recharge the batteries, leading to inefficiency. These hybrids depend more on KERS for regeneration, resulting in less efficient load-shifting. As a result, the German PHEVs become virtually useless once the traction battery is drained; the hybrid system effectively becomes dead weight. Fortunately, with large battery capacities, users are unlikely to run out of charge unless driving aggressively.

It seems that vehicles like the RS5 are now relegated to quieter roles, serving mainly for trips to the Nordstrom parking lot and leisurely Sunday drives.

 

All correct and it's because they don't like half *** systems or concepts. They do not like hybrids because it's the worst of both worlds and only do it because they are forced to do so, that's why a lot of the time as you said the systems become dead weight.

That's how they are viewed in the first place.

They instead decided to use a full gas and full EV setup in one car leading to insane weight, but it lets the engine be the "lead" at all times unlike the hybrid "junk to drive experience" Toyota makes where the engine is just a part of the system not the defining aspect of the vehicle.

 

I don't care for any of the PHEV compliance powertrains but Toyota and Lexus has literally nothing to compare with them. The closest thing is the full hybrid GR GT which makes less power than this RS5 despite having a twin turbo V8 and full hybrid system.

This reminds me of the predictions from a few years ago about how Toyota would "leapfrog" Tesla and others when it came to EV's because they spent so much time making hybrids. And look at what we got when they "got serious" and gave us the BZ4X.

 

not sure what most of this has to do with the a8.

 

That would be called a "skill issue" on Toyotas part, as usual.

Their lane is making practical mass market cars.

 

nothing to do with a8 still but the bz just got a big upgrade and is getting competitive.

https://www.toyota.com/bz/

 

I have a large Audi dealership near my house and I drive by it once a week.

I'm afraid of pulling in there for fear of an impulsive car purchase. Haha

I consider @Striker223 our resident Audi expert and have become a big fan of Audis, which I never knew much about.

 

Who cares? Nothing Toyota makes is anywhere near competitive in this segment

 

Realistically, outside of the S class and to a much lesser extent the 7 series, nothing else sells in this segment. And here in NY, most of the S series I see have TLC plates. I rather Toyota and Lexus throw us the occasional bone with something special like the LC500, IS500, GR Corolla and the upcoming GR GT instead of making a new LS sedan that no ones going to buy anyways. If they are going to sell a couple of hundred units of something, it might as well be something special and memorable. None of those appeal to you and that's fine. It's not for everyone.

 

You have to understand the reason these high performance German cars are PHEV, its to comply with euro engine standards, not for any purpose otherwsie. So, when you see an S63 PHEV, the only reason its a PHEV is because thats the only way they could sell it in Europe. Now that the new 4L V8 is Euro 7 compliant...no more PHEV.

On lower end PHEVs customers for those vehicles (like me) don't care about efficiency. We like the good all EV range and the nice driving experience of the full engine experience when the battery is expended. Its a different buyer. I have a PHEV Pacifica because we like the all EV driving day to day, we don't care what the fuel economy is...in fact I couldn't even tell you what it is.

Actually the current 7 Series outsells the S Class...

 

For the money they ask for those there are so many other, better options is the problem. No one bought the 5th gen LS because it was a joke vs the Germans, again that's the whole issue when you love to the high end with Lexus.

You are stuck with a subpar and underperforming product in a segment that the reliability argument doesn't matter nearly as much vs having an elite experience that makes you FEEL like the best car on the road. If you have never had a car like that you won't understand what I mean

Need I remind you the Supra is a BMW?

 

They al’s qualify for sec 179 and are write offs for a business. Smart move to make them all do heavy.

I remember Audi made a big deal of their all aluminum A8 but the market didn’t really care.

 

Jaguar too...