The issue is most people have to make do with one car that serves every need. For me for instance, I want EVs, I like the way EVs drive and I would all things considered prefer to have two EVs.

BUT, we do travel and I am not at all excited about having to stop to charge. Last Friday we went to Hershey Park, it was a 2 hour drive there and a 2 hour drive back. We got in the car at 10:30 to drive home...I did not want to stop to charge. On the way there I'm trying to get there, on the way home I'm tired and its the middle of the night and I just want to go home.

We go to the beach and I don't want to have to leave the car somewhere to charge and get back to my condo/hotel. I go to WV and would have to stop once each way but then I also have to figure out how to charge at my cousins house while I'm there. Its just something I would rather not have to think about.

Every time I drive on a trip I always say to myself "I'm glad I don't have an EV" while when I drive around town I say "I wish I had an EV"

The Pacifica only has 30 miles of range, and its pretty slow in EV mode. But this Range Rover gets 60+ miles of range and has over 200 just EV HP, thats better to drive and I would really only ever use gas on a trip. To me thats the best of both worlds, I get my EV in town and my ICE on a trip in the same vehicle. Whats not to like? You lose the impressive power and acceleration of the EV is the only thing I can think of.

 

Have to agree with this. Most people don't drive more than 50 miles in a day, so with an EV you're hauling around batteries that store energy to be able to go much farther. Whats the difference in hauling a smaller battery and then an engine and that?

 

The difference, at least for me, is the PHEV still has the maintenance obligations of an ICE vehicle but doesn't have the performance or lowest possible operating cost benefits of a full BEV. We might as well ask why anyone needs, say, 500 hp in their car when most of the time the car only uses a fraction of that to maintain steady state speed. I will note, for the record, that our daughter has a Pacific PHEV and we really do like it.

 

You can't be serious.

 

Evs are great, but mfgs and gov have thrown incentives, regulations/mandates, and better features etc at possible conquest customers and they have just further dug into the proverbial sand.

If introducing these folks to the compromised PHEV, and organically these folks like it, i'd say EV folks should take the win. Eventually they will want to go ev one can hope?

That is what Toyota as a brand is doing.

 

Oil industry is the most subsidized in history. That's not even getting into government money tossed at auto companies almost all which make ICE vehicles.

 

Sorry I was responding to his comment, being a former PHEV owner, we didn’t see that. The ONLY reason we sold our PHEV was we wanted something bigger and more cargo space when we travel. This was after we sold our LX 570.

How does it drive with depleted battery in hybrid mode? I must be immune to smell of gas as only time I smell it is when I spill some pouring in my lawn mower or filling up some gas cans. Can’t say I notice smell of gas while filling up my car. And I’m at the pump quite often.

Like I stated in other thread I’ll take quick oil changes over quality issues any day. In 32,000 miles I put on my PHEV I did 3 oil changes. Dealership serviced first 25k miles for free. I changed the oil and rotated tires at 30k. Engine air filter was still relatively clean. My PHEV was 1 second or less to 60 than a MYLR. My friend with his MYLR and I always compared our experiences living with our vehicles when I had my PHEV. We purchased around the same time. He had a deposit on a hybrid RAV4 when he purchased his first Tesla. He got tired of waiting for it to come in.

Seems the ones who truly dislike PHEVs are EV owners who’ve had very little or zero experience with a PHEV. Living with and owning a PHEV to me was a great compromise between owning an EV and having a gas vehicle. I’ve rented 4 teslas, all on vacation, so I have some experience living with an EV.

 

I agree with this, but its a tradeoff like anything else. You still have the maintenance requirements of an ICE vehicle but you also still have the ease of travel and refueling of an ICE vehicle, thats the tradeoff. I will add that maintenance is less, brakes for instance last forever because of regen braking, really you can double OCIs, on the Pacifica 70% of its miles are EV miles, so in 10,000 miles driven only 3,000 of those miles are put on the oil.

I don't think anybody needs 500hp, its the same argument all the way around. We are all hauling stuff around we don't "need". Just in both of our cars, my wife drives the huge Pacifica around all day every day when we only need the size for travel. Same with my S580, 99% of the time its just me in it.

I'm totally serious. Hauling around weight for potential use is the same regardless of what makes up that weight. If its 700 lbs of battery or 700 lbs of engine, whats the difference?

Really thinking about this, with 60 miles of range...why would I replace the Pacifica with an all EV Rivian over a PHEV Range Rover? All our in town driving would be EV, so no more buying gas, and we would only use gas on trips which totally negates the drawback of family travel in an EV...supercharging is no cheaper really than buying gas and is way less convenient.

 

Agreed but how does the ev industry counter this?

My personal take is let them sample what electrification feels like. Let them then decide if they want to go to a full ev.

 

For the auto industry to truly decide, which really means the consumer, then get rid of all incentives.

 

I agree with this. For me when I drive an EV there is no doubt that I want an EV, my wife feels the same way. The sticking point for both of us is having to recharge when traveling which is what makes us consider PHEVs.

 

i think the longest charging stop i've done is about 18 minutes and it was only that long because i felt like charging to about 95% if i recall correctly. hardly an inconvenience. other stops have been 10-15 minutes. i don't want to drive more than 200mi. without stopping anyway. but that means a 400mi. drive is 1 charge. no big deal to me.

i'm done with gas cars and have absolutely no interest in a hybrid of any kind. hybrids and plug in hybrids have certainly come a long way but they're still extremely complex and were obviously a stop gap originally for better fuel economy / better performance. my ev though costs a fraction (1/4) of what my last gas vehicle cost to run and is WAY faster, quieter, etc.

bottom line is any of us can rationalize/justify whatever we want.

 

The longest charging stop I've done is 20 minutes. I'm charging right now as we speak as I'm on my way home from SoCal. Will never in my life buy a hybrid or Phev, EVs are infinitely better in every way. And the maintenance is so minimal that it's almost non-existent

 

Last weekend we took the Plaid on a road trip. Supercharging took 27 minutes to get 41 kWh. $.35/kWh. Way too long, and that was a 250 Kw charger. Got to be better.

Haven't been driving it much in the last few week due to a knee injury. Been driving our RX. Kinda nice not to even think about charging.

 

For me, when I think about it in the abstract I think "a 20 minute stop is not a big deal" but when I am actually travelling, the last thing I want to do is stop for 20 minutes. So, that gives me pause about going to full EV. Then there is travelling and actually staying at the destination...I have to figure out where to charge while I am there. So at the beach, I drive 150 miles and then drive around Ocean City for a week, then drive 150 miles home. So at some point during the week I am going to have to park the car somewhere for 5+ hours and let it charge. There are no superchargers in OC. So I would have to pay to park it in a municipal lot overnight with Level 2 chargers and walk across the highway to get back to our condo. Not the end of the world but an annoyance. In WV I would have to plug it into my cousin's dryer vent or something, or I would have to stop twice on my way there and back in order to have enough charge to drive it while I'm there and to have enough charge from being depleted to make it all the way home. Big annoyance. Same is true of driving it to NJ, will have to charge it somewhere while we are there.

Another example is that trip to Hershey Park, I would have had to stop and charge on the way back, in the middle of the night with my whole family in the car. Not appealing. I'm also not sure where on that route I even could have done that.

This video got me thinking that a superior PHEV to what we have might be the ticket. The Pacifica doesn't have enough range or all EV power to provide an EV driving experience around town really. But, that RRS with 65 miles of range, 220+ HP of all EV power and the ability to lock it in EV mode would, without the travel downside.