Have you ever driven these cars? I own one of them and did drive the other one for a considerable difference.

With the facelift LS500 everything was significantly improved. I no longer had any issues with NVH or powertrain, it has the smoothest V6 I have ever driven and really feels very V8 like. I would obviously want a V8 but it felt better than the I6 in the S500 for sure. Ride quality is excellent, handling is nowhere near as sure footed as the S Class, but would be fine for me...plus highly optioned similarly to my S580 (or even better) it was $35,000 cheaper. The interior is much smaller than the S Class which continues to be an issue.

If this LS500 had been what was out in 2020 when I got my S560 I would likely have stayed with Lexus. Now that I am used to the S Class, it would be hard for me to go back.

But the AMG suspension cars wouldn't ride nearly as well. I would take an LS500 over an S63 for sure. Just not my thing.

 

To be fair Europe only gets LS500h and they are all AWD and they all come with a 150K pricetag.

 

Nope but I did drive the 500h for a long period of time so I was pretty familiar with it. Never had a chance to drive the W223, though.
My opinions were formed based on those slalom videos and the latest comparison test from Car and Driver: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s500-compared/

There was also one video from BestCarWeb featuring the chief engineer of R35 GTR (水野和敏), who, after driving both cars, ultimately concluded that W223 is the better car to drive (due to newer suspension design). Video is only in Japanese though.


Like you said, some issues were rectified through facelift (NVH and ride), but there were also some that still cannot be fixed (packaging and dated interior / tech). It was just too little to late, because initial impressions usually determine the fate of the product itself.

 

I would drive cars and form your own opinions. The refresh LS500 is a much better car than people give it credit.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said. I think where Toyota missed the mark was with the software and infotainment screens. The remote touch seemed to be a controversial control device and Toyota should have went right to a high end touchscreen when the LS500 debuted.

as for size, I firmly believe the interior size was a little smaller to facilitate some sort of rwd crossover that would have been positioned to appeal to the buyer that wanted a car with more room.

lastly. V6 and V8 turbos should have been offered way back in 2007 as the competition had already started offering such features. Same with awd. A little late to the game.

 

Thats for sure about the tech and infotainment, but that is also now solved and their new infotainment is touch screen and is quite good. Their buyers have just moved on and there aren't new buyers coming in to replace us.

 

Still not really good enough. The centre cluster in front of the driver is not modern. Really needs to be on par with Mercedes. The LS400 and 430 had really good infotainment screens in the centre. Remote touch really pissed of a lot of buyers. My parent traded their Lexus because of that one issue alone

 

When both the LS400 and LS430 came out their navigation/infotainment was the best in the industry. Even the LS460 it was still the best.

 

Try Audi/Porsche perhaps? The sport suspensions they offer actually have a wider range of adjustment than stock and comfort is SOFTER than the base cars, the newest ones also have per-wheel full active control that is unquestionably the best I've ever driven. Makes the Panamera truly unreal smooth when you want it and totally controlled at the same time

 

Touch screens are cheap and crude. Same interface as a Nissan and doesn't do anything to distinguish the experience and requires you to break your seating position to use and focus on way more.

 

Front mid means the engine is behind the strut center lines, it's not. Period.

https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/146902-does-the-lfa-really-have-a-front-mid-engine/#


LS460 with a strut bar showing position

LS500 covers off showing tower position, about 1 inch back from a 460


A charger engine position.....note how it's the same as the LS460

A C7 engine position, note how the crank pulley is BEHIND the strut tower aka ACTUALLY front mid engined


If we are moving the goalposts to "mostly" behind then so is the LS460, charger/challengers, mustang, camaro, etc etc.....hell my A8s even with the integrated AWD system have the actual wheel centers halfway up the engines so does that make me mostly front mid? No. It doesn't, the attachment point of the suspension is what matters even if it's setup to kick the wheel center lines forward as far as physically possible. You will still have a high polar inertia and it will need to be counteracted somehow, rear steer, TVD, active AWD etc.....the difference in two otherwise identical cars with and without TVDs is the greatest difference I have felt to date. Rear steer helps a lot but it's not the same amount of rotation

Plus it doesn't matter at all in the end, the end result is inferior to all rivals so it was just wasted effort.

 

Yep, agreed.

 

I've driven the Panamera, it is nowhere near as nice riding as an S Class.

Then you need to correct Lexus as well as everybody who has reviewed the car lol.

Its front mid engined. The actual definition is that the MAJORITY of the engine BLOCK is behind the front axle, so if 51% of it is behind the front axle, its front mid engined.

 

Striker is right.
I must be honest - I am wrong.
I have been using the term front midengine incorrectly.
To be front midengine, the entire engine must be mounted behind the front axle.
Hence, 5LS is still front engine, but more of the engine is placed behind the front axle, thus compromizing the cabin length.
I won't refer to 5LS as front midengine any longer.

It's just a terminology thing - no big deal...

 

That is absolutely not true.

https://www.swanswaygarages.com/blog...uts-explained/

The point is, the engine in the 500 is placed further back in the chassis which eats into cabin space.