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The reason why foreign carmakers can build cars here and American carmakers cant...is they don't have to deal with the UAW.
Exactly. So what does the UAW bring to the table besides higher cost? If I was for example Jim Farley I'd ask the union boss this very question, what can do you do for me that a Toyota worker in a Toyota factory can't.
Exactly. So what does the UAW bring to the table besides higher cost? If I was for example Jim Farley I'd ask the union boss this very question, what can do you do for me that a Toyota worker in a Toyota factory can't.
Nothing in the current world. There was a time when unions provided an incredible benefit to workers. My grandfathers were both coal miners, and the United Mine Workers union fought for safety and wages and that they be paid money vs coal tokens which could only be spent at the coal company store and for housing owned by the mine. The UAW also fought for workers rights and wages in a time when there was no public eye or scrutiny to help protect workers. Today though, public scrutiny is such that employers can't hide their mistreatment of workers like they could back then. Non unionized workers seem pretty well paid and happy to me...and unions today are FULL of corruption...
The reason why foreign carmakers can build cars here and American carmakers cant...is they don't have to deal with the UAW.
Originally Posted by LeX2K
Exactly. So what does the UAW bring to the table besides higher cost? If I was for example Jim Farley I'd ask the union boss this very question, what can do you do for me that a Toyota worker in a Toyota factory can't.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Nothing in the current world. There was a time when unions provided an incredible benefit to workers. My grandfathers were both coal miners, and the United Mine Workers union fought for safety and wages and that they be paid money vs coal tokens which could only be spent at the coal company store and for housing owned by the mine. The UAW also fought for workers rights and wages in a time when there was no public eye or scrutiny to help protect workers. Today though, public scrutiny is such that employers can't hide their mistreatment of workers like they could back then. Non unionized workers seem pretty well paid and happy to me...and unions today are FULL of corruption...
Sorry, thats just total hypocrisy. You can't admonish others for not supporting American labor when you yourself don't. You keep moving the goalposts, first you say "American labor" then its "unionized labor" then its okay if its one of our allies. The bottom line is, you don't care enough about it to speak with your wallet so stop admonishing others for doing what you yourself do. People in Korea are not American. You could have used your dollars to support American labor and you chose not to, bottom line.
Wrong. Totally wrong. I support unions both in the U.S. and abroad. That is not hypocrisy....in fact, it is the opposite of hypocrisy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
In fact, if you will remember, the Canadian UNIFOR supported the last GM strike by the UAW for the same reason....union brotherhood does not stop at national boundaries
The reason why foreign carmakers can build cars here and American carmakers cant...is they don't have to deal with the UAW.
Foreign automakers in the U.S., even in non-union plants, have generally treated their employees better than the Big Three. They don't give the employees as much of a reason to organize as the Big Three.
A perfect example: GM and Chrysler asked the UAW to make huge concessions around 15 years ago, when both corporations went bankrupt. The UAW not only complied with most of the requests, but actually helped finance part of the buyout with their funds....not all of the buyout money came from Congress. Now, those corporations don't want to make any concessions in return....ludicrous.
That doesn't mean that I agree with everything the union is asking today......46K an hour may be a little high for a starting-salary worker with no previous experience. 46K an hour is about what I was making after 33 years of experience and a number of quality-step-raises I was given for my work.
Last edited by mmarshall; Sep 19, 2023 at 07:38 PM.
This feels like it will turn into deja vu all over again.
GM is in deep trouble mostly because the United Auto Workers have festooned the company with rigid work rules and extravagant costs. The 2007 collective-bargaining agreement, for example, required the automaker to pay up to $140,000 in severance to a worker whose position was eliminated. And that is nothing compared to the enormous health-care costs these companies are laden with. The average cost of employing a worker at the Big Three, including benefits, was nearly twice that of Japanese automakers. No wonder the automakers are hemorrhaging cash.
As I said UAW doesn't give a toss if they end up killing GM they will be bailed out again, 100% certainty for reasons we can't discuss here.
A perfect example: GM and Chrysler asked the UAW to make huge concessions around 15 years ago, when both corporations went bankrupt. The UAW not only complied with most of the requests, but actually helped finance part of the buyout with their funds....not all of the buyout money came from Congress. Now, those corporations don't want to make any concessions in return....ludicrous.
Do you think they did that out of the goodness of their heart or because their gravy train was about to come to an end?
And they have made concessions since the bailouts.
That doesn't mean that I agree with everything the union is asking today......46K an hour may be a little high for a starting-salary worker with no previous experience. 46K an hour is about what I was making after 33 years of experience and a number of quality-step-raises I was given for my work.[/QUOTE]
What few polls have been done on the issue show that around 75% of the American public is backing the UAW, although some of those polls are a few weeks old, before the strike actually started.
Wrong. Totally wrong. I support unions both in the U.S. and abroad. That is not hypocrisy....in fact, it is the opposite of hypocrisy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
In fact, if you will remember, the Canadian UNIFOR supported the last GM strike by the UAW for the same reason....union brotherhood does not stop at national boundaries
LOL, I’m not wrong. Look up the definition of the word hypocrisy. If you want to have the grounds to tell people they should support American labor…then support it yourself. Simple.
LOL, I’m not wrong. Look up the definition of the word hypocrisy. If you want to have the grounds to tell people they should support American labor…then support it yourself. Simple.
Kindly read what I wrote, because I'm not going to repeat it any more...I'm tired of repeating myself. I said I support Unions, period. Understand???...it's not so difficult.
The point is you move the goalposts to fit what you yourself want to do. First it was American labor, then its union labor and labor from countries that are our allies.
You buy what you want, which is what you should do…just own that.
Since the Bronco comes from the Wayne, MI plant that is currently being struck, I may stop by the Ford shop tomorrow and see if any two-doors are in stock, before shipments from the plant stop completely and the supply dries up. I have always liked the looks of the two-door model, but have not sampled one yet, although I suspect that the short wheelbase on the two-door, combined with the off-road-capable suspension, might (?) make the ride a little choppy and/or cause porpoising. Broncos in my area, both two and four-door, are multiplying like free beer, and may even be outselling the cheaper Bronco Sport.
I still like Buicks for many reasons (always will), but the looks of the two-door are very interesting...it reminds me of the original Broncos I remember from the 1960s.
Last edited by mmarshall; Sep 19, 2023 at 08:11 PM.
I generally do buy American, more so than most but quite frankly with certain products other nations are simply ahead/specialized into it enough that if I want the best I buy foreign.
Watches, cars, magnified optics, kitchen knives, and some other stuff I don't buy American but the vast majority of stuff I buy is. It also is very nice since lifetime warranties are normal and I can talk to the person who made my item in most cases.
