jibbby

I have installed the S&S Headers on my 1992 SC400 and I am very happy with power gains at high rpms, they look great too, and really aren't too noisy...However, spending $600 for the headers ended up costing $1100 installed... Why you ask?

1) S@S Headers for the SC400 were actually designed for the GS400...I did not know that and there are fitment issues that were not disclosed at purchase....

2) The header bolt on mod is really not a bolt on mod at all because the exhaust is different between the SC and GS models..The headers bolt on to the engine and fit in the engine bay compartment just perfect...Down pipe fitment couldn't be more different....

3) The three hole bolt pattern at the header base is different from the three holes on the stock down pipe connection...Had to drill out two holes too connect.....

4) I then bolted the headers on to the stock down pipes with the small cats and when all was connected the entire exhaust system lowered an inch or two....That does not work so the stock downpipes need to be shortened..

5) Shortening the down pipes is not possible because of the cat converters that make up most of the down pipes...So deletion of the down pipes is needed to make the headers work and fit..

6) Complete custom 1 foot or so down pipes were needed to be made from scratch...Not easy for any muffler shop using steel......I had to pay $400 for the new down pipes with the correct bolt patterns matching up...A total suprise...


So now the car probably won't pass.smog...

On a good note - I really do like the headers once installed. The deletion of the two cats in combination with the headers installed really gave the car some getty up at higher rpm;s and it is felt... 20whp gain is my guess...

I just want to let people know what they are getting into since S@S Headers doesn't tell you...


In conclusion - The fitment and extra money spent pissed me off. The company however was really nice to send me an extra set of header bolts and gaskets for free, also the headers themselves rock.. I would still recommend the headers but not for the SC400 but for the GS400....Story over.. .

baldycmw

Don't you have a check engine light without the cats. Also did eliminating the cats mess with your computer?

jibbby

Yes - The check engine light came on and I removed the bulb...

and yes it screwed up the computer....I have a hesitation or bog effect at launch under full throttle... I am tinkering and driving to look for changes...I will need to re-tune my apexi piggy back which i need to do anyway...

THis is a picture of the custom made down pipes....

jibbby

These are the S&S Headers that are supposedly made and sold for all SC400 models....

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

I'm gonna install this into the engine forum

Sly Guy Yu

would u think the 98+ sc400's would have the same issues?

jibbby

Yes, I think the S&S header fitment on any year SC400 is going to be trouble, but cannot say for sure on 98 and newer models.......Like I said the headers bolt just fine to the engine, but connecting the headers to the rest of the stock exhaust system is not even close... GS models are different then the SC's exhaust, but the 400 engines are the same....See what I am saying... What I thought was going to be a $600 bolt on mod ended up being a now $1100 mod, and I was lucky to finish the install for that price.. Custum fabed 1 foot down pipes with flanges on both ends for $400, I think I got a good deal..... I love the results of the headers but $1100 for headers installed for maybe 20-30hp is tough to swallow.. Cams would have been less...What is done is done....

The reason I now mention 20-30hp gains is that when compared to the power gains of my Apexi ECU piggy back mod the headers and deleted cats power increase feels more then double compared to the 10hp or so gained from the Apexi.....I really think my car is now faster then any stock new Lexus without the use of Nitrous......I wouldn't have said that before the header install...This car now has some real getty up from 50mph-100mph which was needed really bad.....

xirforever

400$ for what are essentially test pipes?

good to know the headers are enjoyable though

verylost

You will have the same issues if not more with a late model. Back in the day, I spoke with a gs400 tuner and he said the late models gs400's needed to have the motor pulled for header work. This may or may not be true with the late model sc400's.

You will also have problems with warning lights. The later obd systems will throw codes with cat deletions. You will most likely need an o2 sim. Pre-96's should not be throwing codes with cat deletions.

jibbby

The codes may not be thrown off at all from the cat deletion. Removing the engine is not necessary on the newer SC's.. The fitment is the same and the headers can be removed...The driver side header is challenging...

Xir- Is $400 too much for test down pipes? I thought I got a good deal for steel welds, cuts, hole drilling, etc ....

JBrady

Jibby,
Everything... EVERYTHING and more of what you are talking about was covered multiple times in the header thread and many other threads. I personally told you about all of these issues. S&S Headers has never had a Lexus in the shop for any kind of fitment. They were of course designed to fit the GS400 because that was the largest interest, demand and pre-construction commitment buyers. I would recommend to anyone and everyone to fully read the header condensed thread in the GS 2nd gen engine section for these answers. Also, search on header threads as many different Lexus car models now have them installed with much useful information from those people.

jibbby

JB here we go again....Not everyone has the time to read long and multiple S&S Header threads and posts to find fitment issues...Some won't even consider fitment issues, I know I didn't, even though you said you told me.....,

EXAMPLE - Let's say some guy has an SC and say's I want to get some headers. He sees that Jibby has S&S Headers installed on his 1992 SC400 and says I want to get a set too....he goes to the S&S Headers website and reads S&S headers for the 1992 SC400 - purchase price $600....Lays down his credit card, looks for a fitment disclaimer and finds nothing and pays. He then gets the headers at some much later point in time and is thrilled and excited to install them. He busts out his tool chest, the jack stands, etc... and gets to work. He removes the stock headers then goes to fit in the S&S headers and discovers "Sh_T!!!" they are not bolting up to exhaust downpipes correctly.. He swears, throws the wrench in his hand across the back yard which accidently takes out the dog.. You get the picture,....He thinks to himself nothing was said about this ftiment issue on the S&S header website...It said "S&S HEADERS FOR AN SC400"....The guy then thinks to himself, the car is apart so no turning back now and then proceeds to alter the stock downpipes (with the cats) by drilling out new fitment holes and grinding down the center lip ring... He then goes to connect all the exhaust up only to find that the exhaust sags too low now... By this time the guys knuckles are bleeding, his car is disabled, parts , tools, sweat, and blood is everywhere, and to boot the dog is still twitching in the corner from the wrench blow to the head......This poor guy get's frusterated as hell, and probably gets on the phone with S&S saying why did you send me the wrong set of headers and my dog is twiching.......You can figure out what happens next...

This poor guy now has to make new custom made one foot or so down pipes and delete his cats if he want's the headers installed...Now how does a regular guy get pre-fabbed down pipes made with perfect bolt patterns and the correct sizing length to fit? Oh and pass smog inspection too? ... Good luck, I have the reasources but I don't think most others do...Now the guy is reinstalling the stock headers with tender knuckles, his dog is dead, and now has listed the S&S Headers for sale on Ebay for $500...He lists the headers for the GS, LS, and SC Lexus 400's....Then the cycle starts over again......

THAT IS WHY I POSTED THIS THREAD...I am only looking out for the every day consumer like me.....That is all...

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Jibbby,

We do appreciate you taking the time to post the thread and to share your experiences... I guess I'd hazard saying though that if you admittedly didn't take the time to read the entire thread about the headers and search for other SC400 install issues then perhaps you didn't do your full due diligence before undertaking the project and shouldn't be quite as angry about it. Regardless of the 'pissed off tone', your post is going to be helpful to other members considering undertaking this project.

Here are some useful threads on the headers and issues other SC members have encountered as members may research:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=180708 Primary info thread
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=172403 General awareness of issues
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186633 Install thread (post 98)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=156090 Egr
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=219158 another EGR
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=188737 Issue with start

Now go and get your SC dyno tuned and reap the benefits!

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Jibby:

it is clearly stated more than once in the header thread that there will be fitment issues with the headers mating to the exhausts as well as several unknowns...Sorry you missed that. Agreed, your writeups are very detailed, and that is most beneficial.

I am real sorry to hear about your dog...Watch out though, somebody might sick the animal police on ya...

Ryan

CleanCL

first i'd like to thank you for the excellent write up.

second, i would like to state before i purchased my s&s headers months ago, i knew about the cats not bolting up and i knew about the egr.

heres my solution:
i'll be buying 2 car-sound cats and my own flanges, i'll get the muffler shop to just arrange the flanges correctly and weld them to the cats. the beautiful thing about the car-sound cats is that they come with extra piping so you can trim where needed. then i can get a custom cat-back made from there. i also purchased the egr delete kit. it just makes things easier, cleans up the bay, and lowers IAT.

some food for though:
i own a 2001 acura cl type s, and headers from comptech are $1050 shipped thru a vendor. that does not include jet-hot or new exhaust gaskets. and thats for a v-6. so $1100 installed for v8 headers w/ gaskets and deleted cats, consider yourself lucky!

but i do appreciate your writeups, you are very detailed for everything you do which is great for everyone else, please dont be discouraged, but enjoy your new found power! i cant wait to install mine.

ps. i would order a MIL eliminator. i'm sure your computer is pulling timing bc the sensors arent reading correctly. get that CEL fixed, and i bet you will see more power from the advanced timing.