wineohs

I bought a 99 GS 400, used, in Jan. 03 with 40,000 miles on it (not from dealer). Bought L-Tuned springs and shocks through Carson and Daizen sways through TM engineering. The shocks and springs were installed by a private mechanic, sways were installed by local Lexus dealer. Both were installed in late spring of 03. Early summer, I purchased Bridgestone SO3 tires. Within 3 months (4k miles and approaching winter--Upstate, New york) the tires began to feather and became unbearably loud. I took the car to Lexus dealer and was told that the car was out of alignment and that was the problem. My camber was out way out of spec. (negative)....The Lexus tech was able to bring the camber close to spec. but it was still out of spec. slightly (negative)...There was no more room to adjust the camber..He felt that it was close enough and that I shouldn't burn through tire unless it becomes further out of alignment...

Winter came shortly thereafter and I put the Blizzaks on. Within 3 months, and a few thousand miles, the Blizzaks started to get loud and the car was drifting slighlty to the right.. Today I took the car into the dealership and low and behold the car was out of alignment. Camber was -1.4 driver side front and -1.1 passenger side front. The rear was out as well, but I don't have the paperwork for exact. Toe and castor were OK.

Things that I know:

Initial garage that installed the L=-Tuned shocks and springs never aligned the car after putting them on
..( could they have been installed wrong?) Lexus tech believes that either I need too: put stock springs and shocks on car or buy aftermarket control arms to bring the camber in..He also does not believe there is any structural problems (frame damage) to the car.

L-Tuned says that they rarely if ever have heard of this problem..TM engineering says (didn't speak with Todd today) that GS's are famous for control arm/alignment problems particularly after the car has been dropped (l_Tuned).

In the mean time, I am out alot of $$$ on tires and alignments and don't know what to do.. I am fed up and just want the car aligned (and to stay that way---assuming I don't hit a ton of potholes or get in an accident). I can't be replacing tires every 3k miles. I also don't want to put back on the stock springs and shocks as I replaced them with the L-Tuned to diminish the maddening freeway float.

I am a pretty moderate driver. Only push it every once in a blue moon..

Can someone who has experienced this problem, or has expertise in this area, please give me direction. I feel like I am cought in the middle with no solution. Lexus and L-Tuned are both throwing their hands up in the air.

This is driving me crazy...Please help

Scott

rominl

iTrader: (4)

do you hear noise from the suspension?

did you hit something hard when driving?

wineohs

No....Suspension is quiet

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

welcome to the wonderful world of modding ..

firstly , the alignment issue is a common one , sometimes you get lucky and the alignment can be brought within spec but most of the time not , it really depends on the exp of the tech ... mine was always slightly out of spec but very close .. i always make sure the neutralize the camber left to right , but also a trick a expert aligner showed me with my last alignment at JM lexus , slightly adjust drivers side to compensate for your constant weight there , he had me sit in the car and show me the numbers before and after and man was he right ..


its my theory that most if not all of the problems we have with alignment and vibrations/shimmy id due to the lower control arm bushings ripping on the inside not visable to the naked eye but on the inner part next to the steel sleeve.. i believe that has a tremendous part to play in distorting the susp geometery and gets worse with lowering .. hence maxing out the ecentrics .. someone badly needs to bring the polyurethene control arm bushings to market and the camber kit ,,,,, hint hint DAIZEN DAIZEN



as far as the bridgestones had them and never will again , everyone i know that has them ,,, alsiverbullet, bluelex, pmatrix, eliel etc etc have the same problems after around 4k miles , they start to sound like suv mud tires aon the pavement.. try turning the tires inside out to sort of even out the wear cancel most of the noise associated with feathering and cupping


good luck to ya and btw thats why i went to goodyears f1 gs-d3 have over 5k miles and as quiet as day one with little signs of wear and those down here in florida who know me can tell you i invented the term "aggressive driving"

SeattleGS400

iTrader: (1)

Something to think about doing, but you might want to fully research this first--put back on the OEM springs but use upgraded Bilstein shocks. A couple of people have used Bilstein HD (heavy duty, $520/set new on Ebay) or Bilstein Sports ($379/set new on Ebay) with their stock springs (search using "lexus bilstein". Ron430, oldguy, and a couple of others have used them in this fashion.

Bilsteins are the gold standard of springs and supposedly have extremely good shock valving and are very durable. The HD versions are made to be used with OEM springs, and offer about 30% stiffer ride but with much more control (and almost no float). The Sport versions are made to be used with aftermarket springs and give aobut 100% stiffer ride (although they could be used on OEM springs). In a PM discussion with Ron430, he has mentioned that while the Sports ride very well on OEM springs, they sometimes are a little on the harsh side when encountering rough roads. He speculated that the HDs would be better overall (from a ride standpoint) at a small loss of handling from the Sports (he's had experience with both on a GS4 and a GS3). And since you push your car once in a blue moon, it's sometime to think about doing, considering all of the alignment problems you've been mentioning.

Good luck.

FutureGS400

Have to agree with that (the tires-not the "aggresive driving" )! My Goodyears now have about 7k miles on them and look (and sound) almost like new! VERY impressive tire IMO. Some tires are definitely more sensitive to alignment out of spec and unusual wear etc.
I had a GOOD alignment done after I put on the Goodyears-rear toe was way out and camber too. My car is lowered 1.5" and the camber is brought as close to spec as the adjustments will allow. Make SURE the toe settings are correct (maybe have it checked at another alignment shop). Try the Goodyears if you need new tires-expensive but worth the $$$ IMO.
Daizen camber adjusters are supposed to be available in the near future...
Good luck with it, don't get too discouraged!

hawk

yah, last time i checked the website, daizen will soon come out with camber adjustment kit.

wineohs, even tho a (teoretical) daizen camber kit would help, i'd personally go after WHY are you having these problems. one thing that caught my eye is that you said your mechanic doesn't think there's any frame damage. first of all, i'm not a mechanic, but, second of all, if your car was in an accident before, i'd bet that the following would apply:

1. not to say it doesn't exist, but i've never heard of any "i don't think so"'s regarding whether frame damage is present. my thought was that, even with some equipment, one can determine the presence of frame damage.

2. even though accidents can cause frame damage, the absence of frame damage does not necessarily mean that damage to a suspesion has never occurred. but i couldn't give you probabilities on that.

before you go the easy route of buying a camber kit, i'd look at the root causes of your problems. this is probably a more expensive course of action, but it's a better option in the long run for your car

edit:

ps.....some around here also say that there are inherent camber problems on all GS's too....but prolly not as bad as you're having it. i know i have some inside-tire cupping and i'm completely stock (for now ). i also know that my car has never been in an accident. (however, when i bought the car, i had the dealer replace the tires that were on it with 'newer' tires from another gs, so that other car could have been the problem...won't know until next set of tires)

KVA

Also...you can probably buy a long-term alignment package. I bought a 3-year alignment deal for $119 all four tires...so I can change all I want (got coilovers) and keep getting it aligned with only my time wasted...On my car the setting are currently maxed out and I am within 1/32 camber all around. The caster is a little off but I have zero pulling and since camber affects tire wear...this is where you want to focus on.

RON430

After reading your initial post and the various comments about modding, tires, etc., that are all valid by the way, I would spend your energies trying to find a good suspension shop. If someone had the magic answer it would have probably been posted. There are a lot of guys doing suspension work out there, including the dealerships, of varying competency. Around here I can tell you the last place to take your shiny bimmer is one of the local bimmer dealers. They didn't even do anything but used a tire dealer across the street for alignments and I have doubts that they were ever done. Looking for a suspension shop with Hunter equipment is a good start but some of the other things are places where local racers, particularly autocrossers, go to get their alignment/balance work done. Failing that try to find the place where body shops that have accident repair where they suspect there is frame damage, get it fixed. Obviously people that advertise they go for the hard problems like balancing aftermarket wheel/tire combos or specialize in finding bent rims is another good indication. While I can agree with a lot of comments here, the l tuned setup is just not that agressive to cause tires, even Bridgestones, to go away in 3K miles. Haven't seen too many cars eat tires quicker than the MR2 turbo I had and even would go well over 10K on the rears without problems, fronts lasted forever. My guess is something is wrong well beyond the shocks/springs/tires and you need to find one of those local places that are worth every penny they charge to sort it out.

Good luck.

wineohs

Suspension Update:

1) Thanks to all that helped me..........

My Lexus dealer is worthless...They wanted me to put back on the stock springs and shocks (at my expense) but wouldn't guarantee that was the problem, nor would they back me up with regards to the L-Tuned Springs and Shocks being the problem...Yes this makes no sense to me either .....L-Tuned said that they would only warranty the shocks and springs if 1) The Lexus dealership deemed them to be bad AND L-Tuned deemed them to be bad after they were sent back...So this left me with a "maybe" that this could be the problem; and to guess on what the probolem was would be at my expense. I worked my way up the food chain at the Lexus dealership and they all are so paranoid with anyone modifying there car and wanted nothing to do with it, even if you use L-Tuned parts.

Much thanks to Ron430...I found a very good shop that specializes in high performance cars and racing (BMW's mostly)..They had the Hunter alignment machines. I don't know what the tech did but he opened up something in the suspension so that he could make another notch in something so that the control arms could be moved and then welded everything back....Yes, I know I am being very vague...Alll I know is the car is now in specs and I spent a whopping $180 including alignment to get the problem fixed....By the way, Bridgestone after alot of complaining comped me 4 new So3's .....Unfortunatly that will be my last set.......There was also no frame damage...

Cadd

What shop was this? I'm interested.

Thx.