woah, i dont usually come into the clubhouse cause i look like a noob with only 1600 posts(exactly) , but this is interesting... i totaly agree with you. i dont want to blame it on the fact that most of the new member in the last few month are about 16 and 17 years old because i was 17 when i bought my first SC, but it seems to be a maturity issue. not so much the searching thing, but the insubordination. i remember seeing a post by someone with only 3 or 4 posts jumping on brian.... do they not see that OLT is a moderator? i actually want to be a moderator on the SC forums for this exact reason. i can deal with new people asking retorical questions every now and then, but when they are told to search, and even given examples of past threads, they should do so. instead, they seem to fight back with an irrelivent rebuttle. when i first joined this club 3 years ago, i was welcomed with open arms, and learned quickly that intellectual was my friend... as well as the search button. perhapse it was just my upbringing, but i never started running my mouth to anyone. some of these new SC owners may have been the top dogs when they had their 240's, and now that they are here i guess they think its the same. is there a way to have a different screen come up for people with either less than 20 posts, or that have been here less than a month? that would be a good way to display a page for about 30 seconds to a min. explaining how to properly search. if they see it everytime they log in for the first month, i think they would have to get curious and read it at least once. that may be one way to get through to them. i cant even remember what the point was that i was trying to make when i started this reply, but i think i got it all out.

in closing.... i love that new members are welcomed, but agree that not only do they need to search, they need to respect every member... regadless of if they have been here for 3 days or 3 years! the SC forum should be less like hondatech, and more like it was when i joined.

 

Trust me guys I understand, sometimes I wish I had a telephone and email search function that I could use for clients! LOL We have expanded to a few new forums and the repetitive questions will drive ya bonkers.

At the same time, I always go back to when I was a newby, and I had tons of questions, I just had too much pride to look like I didnt know so many things in front of thousands of people, so I would send PM's or just sit there and (I hate to say this) surf / search the forums.

Like OLT said, reptitive questions are no problem, its when the "what the hells going on around here, can a man get some help up in here?????" starts, that it gets to be much LOL


Off topic- OLT, i shot a Scion T/C prospect to Lextech.org for a retrofit of mirror blinkers and turnsignals to LED, keep yours scanners peeled

 

Its tough, your frustration is totally understood. A few things.
1. More Lexus are being sold every year
2. Cars are getting older and more affordable
3. The gospel of Clublexus is spreading, thus more people are signing up
4. Lexus is still a NEWB itself when it comes to modding. Most people don't even know you can change wheels.


Maybe, if a few people added in their signature "Please USE SEARCH", exactly like that (no smart comments), people will see it and use it.

There are many people that use SEARCH, and most don't post about using it. Or they don't post at all.

So lets try to solve this issue. One is adding "Please use SEARCH" in your sigs.

Another is veteran members stepping up and telling people to use it POLITELY. If its out of control, contact a moderator.

Personally, I'll try to monitor it more.

 

Mike I had a very long reply typed up and lost it, and I'm very short on time tonight. Please don't take my reply as rude (my prior post was much more tactful), but I think its important to get a few points I think are very important across on this topic.

1) I understand your pain. Seriously, I do this 10 times a day for new members and I ususally (not the last couple of weeks - too busy) try to help each one of them I encounter.

2) Right now, IMO the way you (and others) treat these new members is a big part of the problem. ClubLexus is a real community and family and we help each other out. You get a new member to the family and the first thing they read from some of the experienced members is stuff like this and seeing cursing at 'em in signatures or a message telling them 'you newbs are driving me away'. Examples:

etc etc I've got to be honest, when I see stuff like that all the time from our experienced members it drives ME away from the forums much more than a new member asking a question I've seen 1000 times. You and others that don't take the two minutes of your day to help a new guy but still take time to post a rude "USE SEARCH YOU IDIOT" message make me ashamed to be associated with ClubLexus at times.

Not exactly the way you were welcomed to ClubLexus is it? Nobody told you to do a search even though there were two + years of posts with probably a bunch of stuff out there already to look over, right? https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-1st-gen-1992-2000/92203-anybody-have-info-on-injen-intakes.html

I know you don't always flame 'em, and I want to thank you for the times when you DO respond like this (THANK YOU) its much more helpful. I just wish everybody would take a couple of minutes to do this.

3) I'd ask that you and others either a) ignore the new posts or b) really put an effort into try to help the new guys out politely by either showing them links YOU found doing search for a specific keyword or just simply answering the question. Knock off the smartass use search replies. You can easily see the difference in the type of response you get from a semi-rude response (yours) and a helpful one (such as NYLexSC gave).
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=168805

The new member in this case even apologized after he got the info and realized the resources he had at his fingertips. Now, however he started off his CL experience by being flamed by one of the experienced members and I wouldn't blame him for having a very bad opinion of you (and our entire forum by association).

Got to get back to 'real' work, PM me if you want to discuss this in more detail this weekend when I have more time.

 

I see nothing wrong with new members asking a question that has been covered in the forum.
If you know the answer, help them out. If you dont know it, just click back and read other topics.

There are many times when I search, I think I've found the answer to my question. But then as i read on.. all i see is "Use the Search Button!!" and etc.

Now, if none of those post have "Use the search Button" and actually have people answer it, the CL Community would be more easier to search.

Just my opinion.

 

I agree here. Often times when we search, a lot of the threads that pop up have a question asked, and then 1 reply that says "SEARCH." Then as I click another search result, same thing. We do have a lot of these "empty" threads that just tell people to search, and it takes quite some time to find the actual "useful" thread on the issue at hand. Good observation mikal

What I see DaveGS4 do often times with these is: Dave will tell the person that searching yields many threads with a wealth of information on the issue. Many of our members do this, however, the one thing that sets Dave apart, and 1SICK, and O.L.T. occasionally, is that they will have conducted their own search on the issue (since obviously the more experienced members are better at using the search function than the newer people) and will post the LINKS to the useful threads. I can't imagine that this takes more than, say, 2 minutes as Dave said. If you don't have time to do the search, simply provide an answer that is as short and informative as you can make it, if you know one, otherwise let someone else post a response. We have 37000 members, surely someone will answer in a timely fashion.

 

I saw his reply, and didn't wish to fan the flames anymore so I left it alone. I later saw that he had apologized...but WHY did he apologize is the question? Because he had what he needed all along and either didn't realize it or was too lazy to use it. His statement of, "just didn't want to look through ten pages for one simple answer" says it all and is very typical. When I was new I was very respectful to other more established members and I also was told through various pm's about the search feature. The problem Dave, is that no one wants to read. They just want to type up a question, wait a few minutes, and expect everyone else to do the research for them and post up an answer. People need to learn the value in finding their own information, not simply in having it handed to them. At least search and make an effort, then post that you searched but didn't yield any results. It's the "I don't feel like reading through 10 pages to get my answer" stuff that bothers me.

I have NO problems in answering questions and several new members pm me all the time asking questions, it's the sharp tongue and utter disrespect I'm seeing that's driving me away. I know a big part of it has to do with the SC crowd, it's getting younger and some of the younger owners lack a basic understanding of how you treat other people, even in cyberspace.

I'm done with it and I'll change my siggy so as not to offend anyone, you guys be cool...and happy trails...

 

The guy apologized because he realized the resources he could use once he knew where they were and how to use 'em. You know the saying "Teach a man to fish..." right? Not everybody stumbles onto the fishing rod in their first posts.

Thanks Mike. What I'm really asking is for folks to handle the aggressive 'USE SEARCH' responses a little differently and be aware of the perceptions new members have what kind of place CL is... it's up to members like you to grow 'em up right. I never assume they're lazy until they prove by asking the same sort of repetitive stuff over and over when they have been around for a while (month or so with several posts that I've had to respond to). At that point, I ususally PM the member (at least in the GS forum) and give 'em a private lesson on using search.

On the sharp tongue and disrespect, the mods are definitely aware of this trend esp in the SC forum and are working to better control that as well. If people can't respect one another after being shown the rules, we're showing the repeat offenders who don't catch a clue the back side of the door quite a bit faster.

 

I would also like to bring up the point that unless we DO answer questions (sometimes more than once) and DO get involved with trying to help with problems, the newer members won't have much to find in the archives even if they DO search. Heck....even with some 7500 posts I find that the search function is not always that reliable either. I'll type in several words or phrases that I KNOW I used and the search comes up blank.
Still.....this is an excellent forum and I think we need to set an example. I often get asked about the recent improvements in Korean-designed vehicles. Sure.....it would be easy to just say " We've talked about that a hundred times....check the archives, Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc........."
But some things in life take paitience. The purchase of a new vehicle is a MAJOR expense for a lot of people.....not everyone makes a triple-digit salary or has golden credit. They are spending a LARGE part of their hard-earned cash for those new wheels....and cannot afford mistakes. So if someone asks "mmarshall, WHY do you recommend Hyundais and Kias today? What makes them any better buys than cheap entry-level vehicles from other manufacturers? Would I be better off with an Echo or a Scion? Should I just forget the new-car market and go used......or Certified Used? Should I consider a lease? Yes....I'm going to explain it to them.......even if I have done it a hundred times with someone else. That someone else may not have EXACTLY their cirumstance....and a previous answer may not always apply. IMO it would be ludicrous to tell them to go find it somewhere else. If I don't know the answer.....and I sometimes don't......I will tell them that, or refer them to someone else in CL who I think CAN. 1SICKLEX and Amethy, for instance, keep up very well with marketing and articles. Flipside has a wealth of knowledge on TRD, aftermarket parts, insurance, and some connections with Toyota / Lexus marketing. Liz / Asian Girl can help with sales and lease questions. Jet864, like me, keeps a lot of auto stats in his head....and does a good job of evaluating new cars. There are many other examples as well...I couldn't list them all.

 

Much appreciated, but I had to tell him no dice. I'm too swamped these days to teach this dog a new trick.

 

just added a "please use search button" to help out the cause

 

I understand your points but If you are as active as you say you are around teh forums why not just do what dave and some other in the gs forum do, save links to common asked Q's and just link them when someone asks a Q that has been asked many times over. No need to be rude. you can link them the answer or just ignore the thread. When I was new I didn't even know how to quote someone let alone go into a search engine on the foruma nd do advanced searches. I asked a million Q's and always got help and link to help me. I now no matter how many times I see the same Q take the time if I have it ( which sadly I do) and link up the answer or helpful info and thats it. If you can log on and write something negative or rude about a nooby than you have the time to get them the right info aswell, thats what makes this a great site.

 

I agree. I see nothing wrong with members asking old questions. If I don't want to answer it I just skip it. Most of the time if I have the answer I'll post what I know. It is not a big deal to me. In fact, I've been a member of many forums and moderator of a few of them as well. I enjoy answering questions when I can help. Otherwise the forums would be boaring and people will just be talking about the same old crap with differenty dressings like I got new rims, or I installed a new part. Sure, those are fun topics to look at but that is all the forums would be about. Part of the fun I've had in the last 15 years of modding cars or just plain old being a car wnthusiasts is that I could find a new friend and talk about car stuff even if we were talking about the same old things day in and day out. It is the passion for cars that makes me help out anybody if I can whether I heard the question 1000 times or not.

So many times I've recieved a PM from someone thanking me about quickly answering a question. I rather sit down and talk with someone about car stuff rather than send him to the library or magazine rack for his answers. What is the fun in that? The fun in being a car enthusiasts is talking to others about our passion and sharing our knowledge. If not just shut the site down and make it an archive site only. Answering newbie questions still beats those stupid immature topics about "Riced" out cars and "My Lexus is better than your Infiniti" crap posts like that.

 

What I see more than anything is "I searched" yet they post one of the most highly asked questions.

Learning HOW to search is equally important. We stickied a thread in the Sc forum that is a very detailed search lesson.

Honestly I believe at least 50% of the problem is laziness. It's easier to just ask than click search and go through a few threads. That doesn't work well though, cause mike will come and get you

 

Brian, maybe you and I are the only ones from the SC forum participating in this discusison who know this to be true. GS forum dwellers don't have to deal with this, so I don't expect them to completely understand.


I've never simply been rude for the sake of rudeness, only when I encounter one of these smart-alec individuals in the SC forum. "If you are as active as you say you are"...oh geez...because the links time out Adrian...that's why I don't do that anymore.