Uda880

iTrader: (7)

After 6 months from buying CYKBC's car, I realized the RCF wasn't for me. While I can definitely appreciate the V8 engine (I've always had a soft spot for the ISF ever since I first saw it next to my IS350), the creature comforts (I absolutely loved the Alcantara on the side/center arm rests, roof, and speedo, along with the cool gadgets), and the speed and comfort, I realized that it simply wasn't for me in my early 30s. The car reminded me of my E550 coupe, and as a Lexus, it represented the ultimate, reliable, grand touring coupe for me, and that was the problem. Despite my efforts to try to give it more character, from lowering it on S-techs, to a nearly straight piped exhaust, ultimately it still felt too heavy in turns, too isolated, too sterile, and lacking in certain character and theatrics every time I turned it on. I loved a car when I took it out for night time joy rides up the 110 to Pasadena, or random Canyon runs - I did it with my 981 Cayman S, the GTR, Z4, and M3, but I never found myself doing it with the RCF - what it represented to me was a really fast and comfortable way to get from point A to B, and that wasn't doing it justice, or giving the respect it deserved.

What that meant was I needed to take a loss on the car as RCF values dropped more than I've ever anticipated for a Lexus, taking a ~$10K loss (inclusive of sales tax), and I finally found a buyer! One that seems to be very enthusiastic and careful of a owner, and knew that he loved this car, and will be picking it up this weekend. I will certainly encourage them to join CL - so you may see the gray RCF with Rowen Carbon Fiber blades yet (although he's in NorCal).

So what did I move on to? I've finally found the 911 that I was looking for. I was very particular about what I wanted, as I test drove up and down the generations from a 964 to a 996 Turbo, to 997s (all formats from turbo to the base Carrera), and through the 991S. I found my balanced choice in a 997.2, and for two years, I've been keeping my eye on the pricing as they proceeded down the depreciation curve and now even curving back up ever so slightly. When this particular example came up, I bought it within 4 days of it being on the market. A former PCA owner car, it spent it's life in SoCal. It has it's faults - the car has a "Other Damage" indicator on Carfax, but checked out (both by Phillips Auto and my PPI @ Turbo Ted in Newport) to have no accidents whatsoever. The car's been repainted, but only the front and rear bumpers from the PPI - according to Turbo Ted (one of the long time Porsche guys in Newport Beach), there's no signs of any accidents or collisions. Mechanically, it passed with flying colors: no codes, no leaks, all bushings are good. I bought the car thinking that the relative rarity (997.2 C4S with the below options), and the actual condition + maintenance records of the car made it a good buy.

Some not-so-great comments first:

• Car has been repainted
  • Front bumper (mentioned in Carfax as "Other Damage") - no structural repair, simple repaint.
  • Rear Bumper (will need to be repainted properly in the future) - no structural repair, simple repaint.
  • 5 Previous Owners - wow!

Now to the great comments (italics denote aftermarket):

• 2009 997.2 Carrera 4S "Launch Edition"
• Carbon Fiber bucket seats (apparently a $6K option when ordered in 2009, now a $11K Suncoast addition)
• Sport Chrono Plus
• PDK
• Full leather
• Sport Design steering wheel with paddles
• Sport PASM
• Self Dimming mirrors
• Bluetooth interface
• Navigation PCM module
• Bose sound
• Champion Motorsports H&R springs
• HRE P43SC wheels
• Tubi Style exhaust
• Full Clearbra to mid fenders + headlights
• Have full maintenance records from PO including 40K, brake, and PDK service at Porsche Beverly Hills
• 70% - 80% remaining on tires
• 70% remaining on brake pads

It drives like a dream, it vibrates on idle at stop lights, it's hard to get in and out of due to the CF buckets and the lowered ride height, it has a high pitched screech from the Tubi exhaust all the way up to it's 7300 redline, and I find myself loving every second of it. Over the last two weeks alone, I've racked up nearly 1000 miles, driving this car for errands, meeting friends, and even taking my late night drives. I've rejoined the PCA (ever since I sold the Cayman, I've taken a bit of a hiatus), and went to the Festival of Speed. I guess what I meant to say was, while I appreciate the RCF for being the reliable and surgically precise of a product that it is, I enjoy the 997.2 more on an emotional level.

Not saying I won't be back, I'm sure there will be another Lexus in my life sooner or later in a daily driver format. But I just wanted to thank the CL community again for allowing me to participate in some of the discussions and to read all the great stories. I'll be sure to check back in once in a while.

And no, the Rowen Carbon Fiber blades are not coming off the car

CAHWY128

Congratulations. That looks like a great car. You can never go wrong with a 911.

mr2dave

Very sharp. Enjoy.

yellow2112

Dont forget Porsche does a ECU tune for that car I believe.....

Slapshot1

Congratulation on your new vehicle. I hope it brings you many years of happy motoring. Particularly interesting comments on how you came to choose that particular car and why you decided to leave the RC F behind. I appreciate the well thought out explanation behind the process. I just joined this forum for information like this while researching a potential purchase of an RC F. I'm considering my best option for a sport touring coupe, emphasis on serious quality, luxury with sport elements still important. I am considering the following:

2013-2014 Maserati Gran Turismo
2009-2010 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S
2013 Mercedes AMG SL63
2016-2017 certified Lexus RC F

I would greatly appreciate any further thoughts on how much comfort and luxury you feel you gave up in the move to the 911. I am already clear on your feelings regarding the RC F missing the degree of character and spirit. And just wondering why you targeted an all wheel drive 911 living in California (skiing maybe)? I'm in Michigan, and could only truly consider the Carrera 4 option.

JC

Uda880

iTrader: (7)

Hi JC,

That's quite a line up, and I have to say that I've both seriously considered and test driven 3/4 of your choices! The only one that was missing, was the SL63, as after my foray with my 2010 E550 Coupe (which my brother still maintains), I've never ventured back into the Mercedes realm as they're too soft, and ultimately the various electronics (which I've experienced first hand), and the ABC (which the SL has a reputation for pump failure on Mbworld) keeps me away. That despite the fact that my family maintains 5 different Mercedes products, including a ML63 and a C63S.

Now to answer your questions:

1. Why did I choose a C4S?

• Primary reason: the wide body - the wide body version only appeared on the Carrera Turbo and Carrera 4 and 4S variants
• Secondary reason #1: additional grip and performance (minuscule difference from C2S, but somewhat of a bragging right )
• Secondary reason #2: Relative rarity on the used market due to the C4S variant + my launch edition options meaning the vehicle was priced relatively under market, and was a great value.

1. My thoughts on your other potential purchases:

• 2013-2014 Maserati Gran Turismo: I've spent quite a bit of seat time in the Gran Turismo MC version, which is the hotter version to the standard GT and the GT S. This was actually a purchase consideration during my time before I bought the RCF. The car was luxurious inside and out as the leather was plush, and the vehicle silhouette and the Maserati badge was to die for. Antique electronics were found inside (which included a green glow from the dash), but usually one doesn't buy a GT for the sound system, but rather the Ferrari V8 under the hood. With the sport exhaust option on, acceleration was an absolute joy, as the deep initial bass would rise to an exotic, high-pitched crescendo due to its Ferrari roots. I remember my model choice very distinctly, it was white with black Strasse R10 wheels, propped up by a set of coil overs. The Carbon Fiber both on the steering wheel, the rear lip, side skirts, and side view mirrors was very attractive to me. Driving it was a different story, other than straight line acceleration sound, you can feel the car was long, and it was meant as a Grand Touring car, as you sat low on supportive, but sofa like seats (felt like it was from the late 80s). The maintenance was acceptable, as minor service is around $700, while major service was $1300 (every other year), averaging out to $1000/yr without repairs. Part prices was what scared me the most, and the lack of independent mechanics that weren't associated with Ferrari or Aston Martin meant shop prices were very close to dealership rates. Ultimately, I felt that it was a bit too grandiose as a daily driver.
• 2009-2010 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S: Obviously you know my thoughts on this. I narrowed my choice to a 997.2 CS or C4S due to the more reliable engine (9A1 - nearly bulletproof compared to the previous generation M96/M97 engines), the modern cockpit design (which includes Porsche latest PCM version), and an external design that harks back to Porsche's successful design roots in the 964 and 993. While it was certainly a step down in terms of gadgets (I don't have Pandora, or the random apps I never used, or the electroluminiscent gauge), and it's no longer as silent and isolating as the RCF, but that's what I wanted! It was the perfect daily driver sports car for me, as I loved the small size and the light weight of the car, the engine sound, the NVH as you sat idling at a light, the sublime handling and weight distribution, and the very acceptable running costs with numerous indie shops in the SoCal region. More so, I liked the supportive community that surrounded the vehicle that spanned generations, and it almost felt like a fraternity or club, where once we've established we're all PCA or POC members, we can talk about the history of the Porsche brand and our individual cars, and how we customized them for days.
• 2016-2017 certified Lexus RC F: The precise and sterile grand touring cruiser. A polarizing design that's very exciting to look at with angles every which way, interior material that's fantastic to the touch with soft-touch plastics, to leather, and Alcantara on even the most remote of surfaces. The straight line performance is fantastic, as the V8 roars to the 7300 RPM redline. I enjoyed my time with the RCF, especially when I chose the Performance Package with the Carbon Fiber roof and rear wing, along with several interior CF pieces that complimented my addition of a CF steering wheel. I liked how it automatically connected to my phone through bluetooth and how I can change and listen to various music while driving - I actually took it up to San Luis Obispo and back, and I felt refreshed enough to continue working after a 10 hour round trip! It was quiet when driving, even when I straight piped my exhaust, and the suspension ate up every bump and highway joint with aplomb, even as I lowered it with Tein S.Techs. It's really an acquired taste, but one that when acquired, one does not give it up easily. Ultimately what it came down to is that it was lacking in the character and uniqueness department. The handling, while adequate with TVD (place it on Track, have lots of trust that it'll go where you want it to go, and it'll do so), was still very isolated. I felt how heavy it was through every little turn, and it just felt like I was floating on top of the car, and not strapped to it. The maintenance is 30% of the cost of a Porsche, and you never felt that it was going to let you down. I wouldn't bother with a Certified warranty, as it's just added cost on a car that literally never breaks down the same way as any of the German or Italian cars will, and even when outside of warranty, most of the problems can be fixed by a visit to your local Japanese vehicle specialist with very reasonable rates. But it didn't stir my soul like a Maserati or a Porsche. It didn't make me excited to look at it every morning, or gave me a sense of occasion when I turned it on the same way as the others. I admit, I could be wrong. But I'd like to attribute it to personal taste and preference. The new owner is very excited to take delivery of it, and I'm happy that the car will go to a respectable owner.

Out of all of these choices, if you wanted a Sports car more than a Grand Tourer, than the 911 would be the way to go. If you wanted a very flashy, and potentially expensive to run Grand Tourer, than the Maserati is your choice (potentially same with the SL63). But, if you want a fast, middle of the road luxury, with a touch of polarizing design, and a very acceptable running cost, then the RCF is calling your name. But I would advise you to really consider what you're emotionally drawn to, as these aren't inexpensive vehicles, and they are a luxury in and of itself. If you simply wanted a fast, easy to maintain car, there are other choices out there. But given your choices are very similar to mine at the time, I would suggest you err more on the emotional range, rather than letting logic take its course.

Uda880

iTrader: (7)

PS: I took the 997.2 out to Angeles Crest today and had a great time.








Comparing the generations. My former toy, the 981S, and my current love.

05RollaXRS

While reading your experiences, I thought I should relay my 6 months experiences to the perspective owner of taking my RCF (similar to your's with performance package/TVD Molten Pearl) through the twisties. While we all agree, it is not comparable to your Porsche 4S, but is incredible blast to throw into tight turns with TVD in 'track' mode. My own 6 months experiences are that the car hides its weight very well in sport+ and high revs. The car has incredibly sharp turn in. While the steering feels slow and sterile in eco, normal mode, the sport+ mode is a different story. VGRS in high revs (tied to engine speed and road speed), sport+ mode really tightens up and lots of feedback from the steering wheel. I had been serious about buying the E90 M3 '13 until I drove this RCF (which I own) and bought it rightaway. It puts a huge smile on my face to hear the engine screaming at 7000 - 7450 rpm in lower gears blasting through turns going up and down the gears.

The only disappointment I felt when I bought the car was, the stock tires turned out be the soft version of the MPSS (non-XL rated). I mitigated it by increasing the tire pressure to 37 psi rear and 36 psi front. It stiffened the tirewalls up and almost eliminate side to side weight transfer over the tirewall. Now the new MPS4S tires have the XL reinforced walls for RCF, which is what should solve this issue of soft sidewalls.

Maybe that is not a factor, but S-techs are famous for offering aggressive drops, but they offer the drop at the expense of poor spring rates giving the "floaty" feel. I used to have S-Tech on my other car that gave a 2.25 inch drop, but spring rates were garbage making my 2650 lbs car feel like a boat. So I threw them out and got some race springs and they made the car handle very well.

Slapshot1

Thanks VERY much for taking the time to respond so fully and informatively. Your perspective is an invaluable aid to my search and its considerations. I agree with your reasons for not going the Mercedes route. I skipped the SL65 as an option solely because of cost, and the same issues apply. I also just lost the top notch independent Mercedes mechanic I would have counted on, which again,means dealer rates for repairs and parts, and that wouldn't be pretty.

You've also nailed my love-concern affair with the Maserati. And yes, it's the S or MC I have been considering. That car fit me perfectly when sitting in it, and that motor, well you described it superbly. But, buying into such outdated electronics, long term, and being at the mercy of a Maserati dealer for service and parts are my primary concerns. Oh, and I don't know that I ever want to have to live with those mushy brakes. Yes, they do stop, but it never makes you feel they actually will. Worst implementations of Brembo brakes I've ever seen. A part of me still wants to just go out and buy a mint condition 2013 or 2014 for that beautiful design, but logic is keeping me away, so far.

I plan to test drive one of a couple of used RC F's at the closest Lexus dealership within the next couple days and that should tell me a lot.

Thanks so much, again, for providing such useful information. And best of luck, and many years of happy motoring in your beautiful new Carrera 4S. You chose that well, as 2009 was the major demarcation point, not only for engine reliability, but total vehicle reliability. I know this because a good friend was the quality control executive at Audi, at the time, and he shared this information from his direct counterpart at Porsche during that period. They began many, extremely significant quality control initiatives starting with the 2007 production year, and by 2009, they had all been locked into place.

I know you don't typically get a ton of rain out there, but the awd is extremely useful in the wet too. I've had several awd Audi's, and a couple BMW's and the stability in the rain is not as appreciated as it should be.

JC

Uda880

iTrader: (7)

Very true. I did experiment with Track and Sport+ mode as well, and it definitely made the steering heavier. But at the same time, I still have to say that it didn't inspire the same confidence as a 911 when going through tight turns. The RCF is a very exciting and fun car to play with through sweeping corners, and definitely had the power to break the rear loose on more than one occasion.

As for the spring rates, I agree that they are a consideration. I actually compared the S.Tech spring rates to Tanabe JDM NF210, RSR Downs, and Swift Spec-Rs, and felt that the S.Techs provided the necessary higher spring rate to match up with the stock shock absorbers while providing the necessary wheel gap closure I was looking for.

Uda880

iTrader: (7)

I'm glad you found it informative. I agree with your reasoning to place the SL65 on the back burner, and also on your perspective with the Maserati GT. The exterior design and the engine is absolutely timeless and intoxicating, but I would be weary of the repair costs should it ever come to that. But at the time, I definitely was starting to become lulled into thinking that I was willing to pay the extra coin to look at it in my garage every night. Yes, the electronics are disappointing, and the look of it at night is even more so, but you have to judge that for yourself.

Please do test drive the RCF, and make sure to play with all the different modes, as they absolutely make a difference in how the vehicle performs and feels, and thank you for your kind remarks on my 997.2, it means a lot to me to have my loosely organized thoughts to be confirmed from those who may have had direct experience in the model line. Yes, I will be driving it in the rain season (two weeks in November) here in LA, I do hope the AWD system will be living up to its hype!

GunnyFitz

Ummm. Is it just me?

05RollaXRS

True. Like I said before, no one would argue your Porsche can turn tighter and is much more confidence inspiring. It is a much smaller, lighter car. It is the pure sports car driving experience. I guess the focus of each car is different. RCF does great as a 2 + 2 luxury sports car with good practicality. I always have my wife and 3 year old baby daughter in the baby seat, stroller in my RCF even when carving through sharp turns. Cheers!