Long-Term, Ambitious Build — ‘97 RSP
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From: FL
Pole Position
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Love it!! Something to be said about our cars once you start adding power to them. As nice as 4th gen Supras are, they certainly don't have the killer interiors that our cars do. That thing looks killer - glad to see you out enjoying it.
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Nick
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Spoke with the previous owner today, it is indeed my car! Pretty neat that you dug that up man! Gerrb told me he recalled a total of 17 SC400s in ‘97 finished in RSP with black leather interior. I guess when you see one it sticks in the mind! Thanks for sharing dude!
Nick
Nick
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Quick update:
I’m a long way off from performing any of this work, but wanted to share my thoughts and welcome any feedback from you guys.
I was waffling a little bit on doing the V12 swap. I was considering doing a 3UZFE swap and twin turbo charging it instead. But, I realize now that I am less concerned about raw power than I am having something that’s unique and special. So, I'm back on the V12 wagon!!
One of the concerns with the V12 swap was going through all the trouble to only have 350 horsepower — that maybe all the modding wouldn’t equate to much power — well I think that’s been put to bed. In my reading I found a sweet 1970’s Toyota Corona with the V12 swapped into it. This guy has done nothing to the engine, only a custom intake manifold with individual throttle bodies. Exhaust manifolds are nothing special, just simple log manifolds. He made 373 horsepower to the wheels, using an R154 box. So, accounting for anywhere between 15%-20% drivetrain loss, this thing is making well over 425 bhp. With only ITBs…
I was planning on opening the heads up, at least, and porting, custom cams, equal length headers, increasing the valve sizes and upgraded the valvetrain in general to spin the engine up to 8,000 RPM. Could these additional modifications yield another 50 whp? I would say another 50 to the wheels is easy. If I built the block with higher compression pistons, all of these changes could be enhanced even further!
I am beginning to feel that 450 whp is there for the taking! Reaching 500 horsepower to the flywheel would make me a very happy boy, breaking the 100 horsepower per liter barrier would be huge as that would represent reaching a genuine target for manufacturers with their performance engines. Just off the top of my head; Honda S2000, BMW M5 (V10), BMW M3 (V8), Mustang GT350R and the list goes on.
I have also had a rethink when it comes to the transmission. I love manual transmissions. But, I love my wife more, and I think that keeping this a car that’s smooth and easy to drive and comfortable will be the best thing for us to enjoy the car together, which is really important to me. So, I’m gonna ditch the CD009 idea, in favor of an AA80E swap. For those not familiar, this is the transmission from the F cars; ISF, RCF and GSF. This 8 speed transmission shifts nearly as quickly as a DCT does, but behaves more smoothly at low speeds. It rev match downshifts, it has close ratios and two overdrives.
Now, the ISF comes with a final drive of 2.7x. I am intending to use this to my advantage, by sticking with my stock gearing of 3.91. With my much shorter final drive, this setup should have instant acceleration from any speed. Lots of shifting, but with the speed of the shifts, it’s not a worry. And, the two overdrives mean that at 70 mph I’d still only be turning 2500 RPM.
So, that’s where I’m at. This last week or so, I’ve been deep diving into dry sump systems and researching. I’m thinking I’m going to need a dry sump system to get the engine to sit as low as possible and clear the hood. Side note: does anyone know for sure how much lower our hoods sit than Supras? In any event, my plans are to package in two pumps, one to scavenge from the pan with either two or three stages and one pressure pump.
It’s coming together in my mind. Buying a new house this year (under contract for new construction) and just had our second daughter, so my dreams for this car will be on hold for a while. Still fun to dream though lol
Nick
I’m a long way off from performing any of this work, but wanted to share my thoughts and welcome any feedback from you guys.
I was waffling a little bit on doing the V12 swap. I was considering doing a 3UZFE swap and twin turbo charging it instead. But, I realize now that I am less concerned about raw power than I am having something that’s unique and special. So, I'm back on the V12 wagon!!
One of the concerns with the V12 swap was going through all the trouble to only have 350 horsepower — that maybe all the modding wouldn’t equate to much power — well I think that’s been put to bed. In my reading I found a sweet 1970’s Toyota Corona with the V12 swapped into it. This guy has done nothing to the engine, only a custom intake manifold with individual throttle bodies. Exhaust manifolds are nothing special, just simple log manifolds. He made 373 horsepower to the wheels, using an R154 box. So, accounting for anywhere between 15%-20% drivetrain loss, this thing is making well over 425 bhp. With only ITBs…
I was planning on opening the heads up, at least, and porting, custom cams, equal length headers, increasing the valve sizes and upgraded the valvetrain in general to spin the engine up to 8,000 RPM. Could these additional modifications yield another 50 whp? I would say another 50 to the wheels is easy. If I built the block with higher compression pistons, all of these changes could be enhanced even further!
I am beginning to feel that 450 whp is there for the taking! Reaching 500 horsepower to the flywheel would make me a very happy boy, breaking the 100 horsepower per liter barrier would be huge as that would represent reaching a genuine target for manufacturers with their performance engines. Just off the top of my head; Honda S2000, BMW M5 (V10), BMW M3 (V8), Mustang GT350R and the list goes on.
I have also had a rethink when it comes to the transmission. I love manual transmissions. But, I love my wife more, and I think that keeping this a car that’s smooth and easy to drive and comfortable will be the best thing for us to enjoy the car together, which is really important to me. So, I’m gonna ditch the CD009 idea, in favor of an AA80E swap. For those not familiar, this is the transmission from the F cars; ISF, RCF and GSF. This 8 speed transmission shifts nearly as quickly as a DCT does, but behaves more smoothly at low speeds. It rev match downshifts, it has close ratios and two overdrives.
Now, the ISF comes with a final drive of 2.7x. I am intending to use this to my advantage, by sticking with my stock gearing of 3.91. With my much shorter final drive, this setup should have instant acceleration from any speed. Lots of shifting, but with the speed of the shifts, it’s not a worry. And, the two overdrives mean that at 70 mph I’d still only be turning 2500 RPM.
So, that’s where I’m at. This last week or so, I’ve been deep diving into dry sump systems and researching. I’m thinking I’m going to need a dry sump system to get the engine to sit as low as possible and clear the hood. Side note: does anyone know for sure how much lower our hoods sit than Supras? In any event, my plans are to package in two pumps, one to scavenge from the pan with either two or three stages and one pressure pump.
It’s coming together in my mind. Buying a new house this year (under contract for new construction) and just had our second daughter, so my dreams for this car will be on hold for a while. Still fun to dream though lol
Nick
Last edited by CLass of 1; May 1, 2022 at 06:33 PM.
Spoke with the previous owner today, it is indeed my car! Pretty neat that you dug that up man! Gerrb told me he recalled a total of 17 SC400s in ‘97 finished in RSP with black leather interior. I guess when you see one it sticks in the mind! Thanks for sharing dude!
Nick
Nick
Driver
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 74
Likes: 28
From: FL
Quick update:
I’m a long way off from performing any of this work, but wanted to share my thoughts and welcome any feedback from you guys.
I was waffling a little bit on doing the V12 swap. I was considering doing a 3UZFE swap and twin turbo charging it instead. But, I realize now that I am less concerned about raw power than I am having something that’s unique and special. So, I'm back on the V12 wagon!!
One of the concerns with the V12 swap was going through all the trouble to only have 350 horsepower — that maybe all the modding wouldn’t equate to much power — well I think that’s been put to bed. In my reading I found a sweet 1970’s Toyota Corona with the V12 swapped into it. This guy has done nothing to the engine, only a custom intake manifold with individual throttle bodies. Exhaust manifolds are nothing special, just simple log manifolds. He made 373 horsepower to the wheels, using an R154 box. So, accounting for anywhere between 15%-20% drivetrain loss, this thing is making well over 425 bhp. With only ITBs…
I was planning on opening the heads up, at least, and porting, custom cams, equal length headers, increasing the valve sizes and upgraded the valvetrain in general to spin the engine up to 8,000 RPM. Could these additional modifications yield another 50 whp? I would say another 50 to the wheels is easy. If I built the block with higher compression pistons, all of these changes could be enhanced even further!
I am beginning to feel that 450 whp is there for the taking! Reaching 500 horsepower to the flywheel would make me a very happy boy, breaking the 100 horsepower per liter barrier would be huge as that would represent reaching a genuine target for manufacturers with their performance engines. Just off the top of my head; Honda S2000, BMW M5 (V10), BMW M3 (V8), Mustang GT350R and the list goes on.
I have also had a rethink when it comes to the transmission. I love manual transmissions. But, I love my wife more, and I think that keeping this a car that’s smooth and easy to drive and comfortable will be the best thing for us to enjoy the car together, which is really important to me. So, I’m gonna ditch the CD009 idea, in favor of an AA80E swap. For those not familiar, this is the transmission from the F cars; ISF, RCF and GSF. This 8 speed transmission shifts nearly as quickly as a DCT does, but behaves more smoothly at low speeds. It rev match downshifts, it has close ratios and two overdrives.
Now, the ISF comes with a final drive of 2.7x. I am intending to use this to my advantage, by sticking with my stock gearing of 3.91. With my much shorter final drive, this setup should have instant acceleration from any speed. Lots of shifting, but with the speed of the shifts, it’s not a worry. And, the two overdrives mean that at 70 mph I’d still only be turning 2500 RPM.
So, that’s where I’m at. This last week or so, I’ve been deep diving into dry sump systems and researching. I’m thinking I’m going to need a dry sump system to get the engine to sit as low as possible and clear the hood. Side note: does anyone know for sure how much lower our hoods sit than Supras? In any event, my plans are to package in two pumps, one to scavenge from the pan with either two or three stages and one pressure pump.
It’s coming together in my mind. Buying a new house this year (under contract for new construction) and just had our second daughter, so my dreams for this car will be on hold for a while. Still fun to dream though lol
Nick
I’m a long way off from performing any of this work, but wanted to share my thoughts and welcome any feedback from you guys.
I was waffling a little bit on doing the V12 swap. I was considering doing a 3UZFE swap and twin turbo charging it instead. But, I realize now that I am less concerned about raw power than I am having something that’s unique and special. So, I'm back on the V12 wagon!!
One of the concerns with the V12 swap was going through all the trouble to only have 350 horsepower — that maybe all the modding wouldn’t equate to much power — well I think that’s been put to bed. In my reading I found a sweet 1970’s Toyota Corona with the V12 swapped into it. This guy has done nothing to the engine, only a custom intake manifold with individual throttle bodies. Exhaust manifolds are nothing special, just simple log manifolds. He made 373 horsepower to the wheels, using an R154 box. So, accounting for anywhere between 15%-20% drivetrain loss, this thing is making well over 425 bhp. With only ITBs…
I was planning on opening the heads up, at least, and porting, custom cams, equal length headers, increasing the valve sizes and upgraded the valvetrain in general to spin the engine up to 8,000 RPM. Could these additional modifications yield another 50 whp? I would say another 50 to the wheels is easy. If I built the block with higher compression pistons, all of these changes could be enhanced even further!
I am beginning to feel that 450 whp is there for the taking! Reaching 500 horsepower to the flywheel would make me a very happy boy, breaking the 100 horsepower per liter barrier would be huge as that would represent reaching a genuine target for manufacturers with their performance engines. Just off the top of my head; Honda S2000, BMW M5 (V10), BMW M3 (V8), Mustang GT350R and the list goes on.
I have also had a rethink when it comes to the transmission. I love manual transmissions. But, I love my wife more, and I think that keeping this a car that’s smooth and easy to drive and comfortable will be the best thing for us to enjoy the car together, which is really important to me. So, I’m gonna ditch the CD009 idea, in favor of an AA80E swap. For those not familiar, this is the transmission from the F cars; ISF, RCF and GSF. This 8 speed transmission shifts nearly as quickly as a DCT does, but behaves more smoothly at low speeds. It rev match downshifts, it has close ratios and two overdrives.
Now, the ISF comes with a final drive of 2.7x. I am intending to use this to my advantage, by sticking with my stock gearing of 3.91. With my much shorter final drive, this setup should have instant acceleration from any speed. Lots of shifting, but with the speed of the shifts, it’s not a worry. And, the two overdrives mean that at 70 mph I’d still only be turning 2500 RPM.
So, that’s where I’m at. This last week or so, I’ve been deep diving into dry sump systems and researching. I’m thinking I’m going to need a dry sump system to get the engine to sit as low as possible and clear the hood. Side note: does anyone know for sure how much lower our hoods sit than Supras? In any event, my plans are to package in two pumps, one to scavenge from the pan with either two or three stages and one pressure pump.
It’s coming together in my mind. Buying a new house this year (under contract for new construction) and just had our second daughter, so my dreams for this car will be on hold for a while. Still fun to dream though lol
Nick
Top end performance also sells kits for them with ARP hardware.
Seems the NZ guys are killing it in the N/A Toyota engine game.
Have you seen the BMW Dual Clutch transmission option, and also a 6 speed automatic option of the 6R80 that can be built to handle 2,000 HP fully programmable with standalone to drive stock.
That gives me chills having a 700HP N/A v12 with a DSG in a sleeper SC. That would give some Supra's nightmares of RSP flashes of Nooooo Monicaaaaaaaaa!
Last edited by GloriousSC; Oct 13, 2022 at 10:06 AM.
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From: FL
Glorious, thanks dude.
The DCT is tempting. Very tempting. But, I have my reservations about how it will behave in low speed situations. My understanding with these DCT transmissions is that you have to do extensive tuning to try to get the drivability right. I’ve seen people
abandon the project just because of the tuning.
Having said that, I’ve also seen a project with the AA80E abandoned because of the same issue; tuning the transmission.
I have an idea for a solution, but it’s only theoretical. My plan at this time, is to use an AA80E and its transmission control unit, and basically fake out the TCU by sending whatever signals it needs from the standalone. If I did that, I shouldn’t have to worry about tuning, it should just “work”.
That’s the basic plan.
The Hartley parts are a HUGE boost for me! I trust their expertise and I had been following this engine build. It’s amazing that they’re now offering these parts. The prices are pretty affordable too, in my view.
I appreciate you sending this to me man. I’ve been losing a little interest in it because I’ve got so much going on in life. The sad part is though, these engines have doubled in price over the past year alone. I’m fearing it may cross into unobtanium soon. I won’t spend $10k on a used engine, ain’t gonna happen!
We’ll see. For now, my closing is set for Nov 30 and I’ve got to do floors and several other projects before moving in. Cha Ching!
Nick
The DCT is tempting. Very tempting. But, I have my reservations about how it will behave in low speed situations. My understanding with these DCT transmissions is that you have to do extensive tuning to try to get the drivability right. I’ve seen people
abandon the project just because of the tuning.
Having said that, I’ve also seen a project with the AA80E abandoned because of the same issue; tuning the transmission.
I have an idea for a solution, but it’s only theoretical. My plan at this time, is to use an AA80E and its transmission control unit, and basically fake out the TCU by sending whatever signals it needs from the standalone. If I did that, I shouldn’t have to worry about tuning, it should just “work”.
That’s the basic plan.
The Hartley parts are a HUGE boost for me! I trust their expertise and I had been following this engine build. It’s amazing that they’re now offering these parts. The prices are pretty affordable too, in my view.
I appreciate you sending this to me man. I’ve been losing a little interest in it because I’ve got so much going on in life. The sad part is though, these engines have doubled in price over the past year alone. I’m fearing it may cross into unobtanium soon. I won’t spend $10k on a used engine, ain’t gonna happen!
We’ll see. For now, my closing is set for Nov 30 and I’ve got to do floors and several other projects before moving in. Cha Ching!
Nick