Habbit

Hey guys, I've got a 99 RX300 (150k miles) that is currently annoying me to death with this complicated starting issue I'm having. Anyway, to start off this story, over Christmas break I left my car here and it sat for about two and a half weeks before I got back and tried to start it... nothing. Having been informed that I had a bad cell about a month earlier, I jumped it, drove to AutoZone, and replaced the battery a couple days afterwards.

Two and a half weeks ago however, I started noticing the car was starting a tad bit sluggishly, but I attributed it to the below-freezing temperatures we were having at the time. On the last day of the extremely cold weather (Tuesday before last, the 13th) I went outside to go to class, turned the key and... *click* Nothing. Pissed and assuming I had gotten a bad battery, I had someone attempt to jump the car, to no avail. Great... Starter is dead, so I thought. Just to be sure though, the next day I took the battery back to AutoZone, where it was tested and checked out and recharged, put it back on the car and same thing. I ended up ordering some starter contacts online, received them the next week, rebuilt the solenoid, took it to AutoZone where it checked out, put the thing back in and... again, *click*. Slightly annoyed, I just went ahead and bought a "new" starter from Amazon, and it came in last Thursday only to... *click* again when I installed it.

Now that I was really annoyed, on Friday my cousin (knows way more about cars than I do) came by and we put a meter on the battery (floated around 13V), checked the fuses (all looked fine), put the meter on the relay (checked out fine), and tried starting the car while his was jumped to mine. Nothing worked. (The one thing we didn't get a chance to do [daylight ran out] was take off the air filter housing and put the meter from the battery to the starter motor, I plan to do this today if I can get a hold of someone with a meter.)

I had a funeral out-of-town Saturday, so the next chance we had to look at it again was yesterday. We had two assumptions, first... maybe the motor was locked, and the second... maybe the bendix is extending (the click) but isn't rotating, which is why the motor wasn't attempting to turn over. Of course neither of those solutions turned out to be correct... We were able to turn the motor by hand and we took the starter out of the housing, left the wires going to the battery and the relay attached, and watched the bendix extend and turn the gear. Anyway, I ran my hand along the flywheel teeth, none felt broken and I was able to just peek inside and see that the plate itself actually looked pretty good. Put the starter back in and *click*.

I'm really at a loss right now as to what the &$^@ is wrong with my vehicle. I talked to my uncle who knows cars like the back of his hand and he's confused as well. He thinks that the ignition switch has gone bad, but we're both curious about that because obviously power is getting to the dang starter because it's extending and turning the bendix. Other than that, he brought up the neutral safety switch... which I'm not too sure is the issue because Friday and Sunday I was able to shift from Park to Drive and see the corresponding gears light up on the instrument panel. Plus that sucker costs anywhere from $130 to $200.

I'm going to try bypassing the ignition switch later today, but aside from a bad wire somewhere (but still... the $&%@ing thing is getting power) does anyone have any other opinions or experiences? I will be extremely grateful for more advice!

salimshah

I would start with basics ,,, terminals and wires. This includes the ground strap (I dont know where it is) but you can jump from the battery to the engine block with jumper cables. Try twisting the terminals and they should not move.


Next thing is to get a jump from a good battery/vehicle. [This eliminates your battery].

Then we get at the solenoid, starter. ignition switch: [Make sure you are in PARK and key out of ignition]
Since you worked with solenoid, you would know the three terminals +12v (battery side), switched 12v (starter side), relay energizer [RE] (ignition switch side). Disconnect the RE and jump +12v to the RE of the solenoid. The solenoid should engage and starter should. turn. If you just just get the half click sound, change or jump the battery. If you still get the half click sound, then rebuild the solenoid switch or replace starter.

To check your ignition switch, connect a 12v side lamp bulb to the RE (ignition side) and gnd. It should light up when you turn the key to start.

Salim

Habbit

Hi man, thanks for the reply. I'm honestly starting to think I have a ground issue somewhere. Last night when my cousin held the starter and I turned the key nothing at all happened, not even a single click. He rubbed the frame of the starter against the metal part where the air filter housing was bolted in and then I tried turning the key again and the bendix extended and rotated.

So today, before I attempted jumping the +12v to the ... relay energizer (never heard this term used, but common sense tells me it's synonymous with what I just call the relay connector... is this correct? ...and I'm not sure what you mean by switched 12v?) I tried turning the key and got absolutely nothing. (Sweet! ) (This is also why I think I may have a ground issue.) So I jumped the +12v to the relay energizer(?) and I got something... I don't know if I'd call it a half-click or a grinding sound... and also some smoke from the positive terminal. I waited a couple moments, then tried turning the key again and still had nothing. So I tried jumping the starter motor again and got the same result, waited a little bit again and tried turning the key to the car... nothing. I then tried to jump the starter again (third times a charm, right? Even though I knew what was coming, the bendix engaging startled me both times and I lost the connection) and could not get it to start. I want to say my battery doesn't have enough juice, but I can't be sure of that until I can get someone to help me jump it.

Any thoughts about the above? I'll let you know what happens once I'm able to get the battery charged.

GS4_Fiend

iTrader: (22)

Suspect you got a bad ground from the starter? Get a test light, plug it to the negative side of the battery and touch the engine ground. If the test light, lights up, you got a bad ground or open ground on the starter.

IndyRX300

Is it possible that the ignition switch is not making sufficient contact or the key has lost its programming?

salimshah

the imobilizer part prevents engine from catching (kills the spark). The starter should still spin.

My suggestion was to directly bypass the the ignition key signal by disconnecting it and jumping it right at the starter.


Salim

Habbit

Hey guys, just an update, I'm ordered a test light and am waiting on that to arrive.

Habbit

So here's the update... The starter is trying to engage again (low battery) and, using my new test light to check, I'm getting voltage from the battery directly to the starter motor. I also used the light to see that I am getting voltage from the ignition switch as well. And I don't have a bad ground on the engine block either.

Anyway, I tried jumping right at the starter again and... *click*. So my "new" starter must actually be bad, correct?

Habbit

Don't assume that just because the wires on the top of the battery terminal connector look fine, that the bottom isn't corroded. Lesson learned.

code58

This is not a chiding, simply a reminder that the lessons that COST you something (in this case especially frustration) are the ones you're most likely to remember. The easy learned ones are forgotten before sun up, only to have to be relearned another day. The 1st rule is START AT THE SOURCE . That means AT THE BATTERY! Means fully charge and LOAD TEST the battery. It does mean take absolutely nothing for granted!!! NO ASSUMPTIONS! People use a DVM or volt meter to test the battery and say it "shows fine because it reads 12V". 1st off, a battery that reads 12V is about 3/4 dead because a good fully charged should read 12.6-12.8V. Next, the fact it has the voltage, even 12.6V means nothing. It has to be able to deliver that voltage OUT of the battery. That's called AMPERAGE, the ability to get it from the battery to wherever it is needed. I have tested 1000's of batteries and have seen batteries that had FULL voltage on a volt meter and when LOAD tested showed 0 amperage.
Next is connections (which means more than simply LOOKING for corrosion. I have seen cables that were corroded almost completely in two inside good looking insulation. Do an Ohms check if you have any question about the ability to carry the load (on ANY transmission device, period) That means breakers, wiring, connections, relays, fusible links, fuses, and anything else that carries that juice to it's needed destination. I have seen a microscopic layer of black oxidation on the inside of a battery cable connection do the same thing as thick green corrosion as far as limiting transmission, yet many people would look at it and think nothing of it.
Habbit, this wasn't aimed at you, just trying to help ANYONE who may not be aware of these things.