RCFDubai

Hello All. Soon moving to Dubai and there are many options of 2nd hand nice cars here but somehow RC-F attracted me a lot. While still I have not seen one in flesh. I'm currently focused in 2 options with similar price tag, 2015 being a little cheaper and a little more milage:
- 2015 RC-F Carbon (roof and spoiler only, not hood). I assume it means it has Performance Package? Color is Liquid Platinum
- 2016 RC-F but performance package was not clear and I have asked it. Color is darker gray., callipers are orange (is it just a color option or being orange means sth?)

I plan to track the car at weekends and normally I prefer to switch off all electronics and manage my own ride. As it is quite a heavy car, not sure if still car is fun on the track and I was thinking that probably the TVD is mainly to balance the weight of the car (can't manage the balance with driving skills alone in this case).

Finally, does the carbon pack really reduces the weight with better performance

Thank you all for your support.

05RollaXRS

Being the owner of a TVD RCF, TVD is mainly to make the front end turn harder and sharper with less steering lock. As long as you feed in the throttle, you will see the car's front end turning sharper as the rear steadily rotates the car. Slalom mode really makes the steering very sharp on-center for quick transitions while track mode is used for high speed cornering. It is subjective as to whether one prefers the LSD or the TVD.

With the carbon fiber roof and spoiler, it does not really reduce the weight since the TVD motors and diff are heavier than the LSD so it offsets some of the additional weight. However, it does move the center of gravity about 1 inch lower as the roof is lighter by 23 lbs compared to steel roof and the TVD is near the bottom of the rear of the car, which makes the weight distribution slightly better at 47/53 as opposed to 46/54 for the LSD.

RCFDubai

Thank you so much for the answers.

Could the non-carbon car also equipped with the TVD or is it specific to Carbon Pack?

And still wondering, is there a difference with brake calipers being Orange or not?

Were there any improvements in 2016 vs 2015 model?

05RollaXRS

Yes, some earlier 2015 models had TVD as a stand-alone option because Lexus was having issues with the carbon fiber weaving, but they are very difficult to find and the TVD was originally designed to work with the lower CoG of the carbon fiber.

There is no difference between orange and non-orange caliper

2016 and 2015 were basically the same car with small aesthetic changes. The pedal design was changed, the exhaust tips were changed etc.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I have driven the TVD in the GS F, the open diff and the OS Giken LSD in the IS F, and I would take the OS Giken over all without hesitation. It's lighter, and IMHO, more responsive to input especially when you turn off all the nannies with the pedal dance. If you prefer to drive with the nannies off, you'll appreciate what the Giken spool does more than any other option on the car.

IMHO, the only advantage the TVD brings is allowing you to run zero toe in the rear and have it work like you have 5mm toe-in. Other than that, not much but extra weight, complexity, and one more ECU in the car. Not worth the 31 Kg weight penalty IMHO.

05RollaXRS

Preference aside, TVD has proven advantages. It is also used on Ferraris and RWD Porsches. Since your question is on the track, C&D did an objective test and the RCF TVD ran quicker lap than the LSD. The average steering lock angle reduced from 135 degrees to 99 degrees. They also voiced their subjective opinions. Some might prefer understeer/balancing it out through throttle with oversteer and find it fun, but for me, I appreciate the immediate steering response and front end agility with the TVD with the car eager to go where I point it especially in a car like RCF.

I agree with C&D as the RCF feels very lively and eager to turn with the TVD in slalom mode (I use it in city smaller roads for best steering response and maneuverability) and track mode on freeways with longer sweeping turn.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Seriously? Magazine drivers? You have to be kidding. They're so full of crap their eyes are brown.

Some day you really need to go to a track and drive instead of regurgitating reviews done by mediocre drivers. It would make your recommendations far more valuable.

Bench racing is fine, but it has no value in the real world. When the green flag drops, the BS stops.

Colt45ccg

I don’t understand why you hate the TVD so much.... there is a difference between each of the modes and a traditional LSD. I haven’t tried an OS, but I’m sure it has pros and cons just like any of the options.

05RollaXRS

Agreed. The hostility and attempts to dismiss TVD as an expensive gimmick is ridiculous when it has been universally praised. Besides, telemetry data does not lie. I don't have to go to the track just to realize how agile the TVD makes the steering and front end. I have pushed my car hard many times to put the TVD to the test so I am not bench racing and speaking what exactly what my experiences are. I am sure I would have been happy with an LSD RCF, but I am just trying to give OP a perspective first-hand.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Hate is a strong word. Never said I hated it. Your interpretation is not accurate considering what I said. I said I've driven ALL of them and I'd take the Giken over anything else. I'd take the TVD over a Torsen or an open diff too. It's just a second place finisher in my estimation.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Hostility? No. I dislike magazine reviews for the most part. They manage to screw up the simplest of things - way back in 1993 C&D claimed the wing on the Supra generated 66 pounds of downforce, and they were totally wrong. The OEM wing on the Supra generates as much downforce as it weighs, and that's it. They're PAID to print drivel from the manufacturer's marketing department because that's what car magazines are for - pushing new product.

So I don't buy their analysis anymore than I bought their analysis of the Supra's wing effectiveness. I have seen car magazines claim brake pad selection shortens stopping distance, a myth fully debunked by an SAE fellow who specializes in braking and stability controls.

TBH, I was very skeptical the Giken spool would make any difference in street driving, but I knew it would improve the track manners of my IS F, so I installed it, and much to my surprise, it significantly improved the car's daily manners.

When we got the GS F, I was quite intrigued with the TVD, and expected it to be a notch up on the Giken spool since it provides ACTIVE control, not passive control. I was entirely disappointed it wasn't even as good as the Giken spool. In fact, if I were going to track the GS F (not my car, it's the wife's dd, so no track for it), I'd take out the TVD and sell it to someone who wants it and replace it with a conventional diff with the Giken spool in it.

Real world experience, not quoting some guy from some magazine whose job is to make the steak sizzle.

05RollaXRS

Read your own verbiage again. To you, it does not sound hostile, but to someone on the receiving end, it does. I am sure if I asked another moderator about it, he would agree with me. Calling me a bench racer when I am actively exploring limits of my RCF every so often, is unfair. Judgmental commentary is not welcome. I have my perspective and I am sharing it with the OP who is trying to make a decision. It is up to him to determine what is helpful.

The magazine reference is absolutely relevant to this thread since subjective opinions aside, they tested both cars the same day and the RCF TVD was 2.5% quicker. Again, it is for the OP to decide whether it is helpful for him or not.

Giken diff is completely irrelevant to this thread since the OP asked about TVD RCF vs LSD RCF and why he should choose one over the other. My response is just for him to understand why to spend more money on a TVD. That is what exactly all of my posts are specifically talking about. Even your ISF Giken is better vs GSF TVD is apples to oranges since GSF is a large size car with a 193 inch length a much longer wheel base that exhibits different driving characteristics than a 184 - 185 inch car. Unless you compare Giken ISF to a TVD or LSD ISF, there is no way of doing an apples to apples to comparison.

I have no idea what the ACTIVE vs PASSIVE relevance is since in my 2 years of driving with the TVD is that it is completely seamless. It simply makes the car exhibit a net effect of higher agility and eagerness than in standard mode. No matter how hard I push, I cannot sense any reactive behavior in my 2 years of experience about it. It simply makes the car reacts sharply to steering inputs off-center with very little lock needed and also makes the rear rotate easily on throttle inputs during a turn.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Please show me where I called you a bench racer? I said "Bench racing is fine, but it has no value in the real world. When the green flag drops, the BS stops."

Where did I insinuate the TVD is not seamless? Your comment isn't related to anything I wrote. I didn't call the TVD anything but second place based on my direct experience with it.

The TVD vs. Giken experience I had is about as fair as it can get. There is no GS F with any other rear drive option. Your comparison of the RC F TVD vs. non-TVD is equally flawed. They're using a Torsen rear diff which behaves just like an open spool as soon as the inside wheel loses traction, so of course there is a sudden shift from understeer to oversteer. Only Torsen diffs do this, anybody else's LSD does not, but Torsen diffs don't have any maintenance other than changing the oil. They will last the life of the driveline (unless you drag race, then they'll die much sooner than they would under any other conditions). So Toyota has always put a Torsen in the diff for limited slip until the TVD came out (or they used the rear brakes and the skid control ECU to emulate LSD). I can tell you all about inside wheelspin from the exit of turn 8 at CMP with the pedal dance turning off the electronic LSD standard in the '08 and '09 IS Fs. It is no different with a Torsen like the one in my Supra.

The OP says he plans to track the car. Your contention seeking out the TVD is a better option may not be a better option for the OP. Armed with the knowledge available, it might make more sense to get a model without the TVD and install a track oriented LSD in the car. That's without question what I would do.

Apone

I feel like we do this each time certain topics (this one included) come up. It ends up being the same comments of the same information that might as well be copy paste or stickied. TVD vs mech, brake pads, tires.....etc.

RCFDubai

Is this GIKEN an aftermarket system for open diff?