Anyone else rethinking their order?
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 4
From: PA
Agree totally--wrong demographic for the buyer. The Stag is a nice ride for the dollar, but it's not in the same league/class as the RCF--a twice the price.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
the RC-F doesn't need anymore horsepower, it needs torque and lightness, lexus is making the same mistake again and again, it was first with the isx50, then IS-F and now RC-F, why cant they do it the right way like the GS350, if the GS-F turns out to be heavier than the germans then lexus is dead in the performance and handling sections......sadlyyyyy.....
Despite its weight, the IS chassis is actually more capable than the 3 series chassis.
I suspect the same will prove true for the RC chassis vs the 4 series chassis and by extension the RC-F vs the M4.
Keep in mind the RC-F and M4 are both derived from the IS and 3 series chassis respectively. The increased weight of the IS/RC/RC-F is not without reason but due to the much increased rigidity and strengthening of the Lexus chassis over the previous generation IS and also over the BMW chassis.
The BMW may look better on a superficial level just going by paper numbers on its weight but throw both cars through a series of curves and I'll bet it will be the Lexus that has has the stiffer more responsive and yet more composed chassis.
Last edited by natnut; Sep 11, 2014 at 12:11 AM.
The new IS350 F-Sport actually pulled a faster slalom speed than the BMW 335i M-Sport.
Despite its weight, the IS chassis is actually more capable than the 3 series chassis.
I suspect the same will prove true for the RC chassis vs the 4 series chassis and by extension the RC-F vs the M4.
Keep in mind the RC-F and M4 are both derived from the IS and 3 series chassis respectively. The increased weight of the IS/RC/RC-F is not without reason but due to the much increased rigidity and strengthening of the Lexus chassis over the previous generation IS and also over the BMW chassis.
The BMW may look better on a superficial level just going by paper numbers on its weight but throw both cars through a series of curves and I'll bet it will be the Lexus that has has the stiffer more responsive and yet more composed chassis.
Despite its weight, the IS chassis is actually more capable than the 3 series chassis.
I suspect the same will prove true for the RC chassis vs the 4 series chassis and by extension the RC-F vs the M4.
Keep in mind the RC-F and M4 are both derived from the IS and 3 series chassis respectively. The increased weight of the IS/RC/RC-F is not without reason but due to the much increased rigidity and strengthening of the Lexus chassis over the previous generation IS and also over the BMW chassis.
The BMW may look better on a superficial level just going by paper numbers on its weight but throw both cars through a series of curves and I'll bet it will be the Lexus that has has the stiffer more responsive and yet more composed chassis.
3rd gen IS chassis ****s all over the 3
So the bigger expectations as it was going to be based on such a capable bunch of chassis
and the bigger let down due to the overall package
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
From: Prague
In former times, BMW never really looked good on paper, but now they to, in order to appeal to a wider audience and increase sales. BMW and Lexus swapped roles, but in addition to BMW's characteristics Lexus adds comfort (like Mercedes) and reliability like non other. Lexus > The World (well not yet, but at the verge).
Note that he said the 2008 ISF--there were lots of changes by 2012--most notably suspension and the rear. The 2012 (believe this was the year) matched the M3 with identical track time and beat the C 63 AMG.
IS 350 F-Sport
5.6 SECS
0-60 MPH ACCELERATION*
TOP TRACK SPEED-143
I have to believe the 2012-14 ISFs will still eat the IS350 F-Sport for lunch. Even though I am hopping into the RCF cockpit in late November, I guess I just can't give up my loyalty to this awesome ISF.
IS 350 F-Sport
5.6 SECS
0-60 MPH ACCELERATION*
TOP TRACK SPEED-143
I have to believe the 2012-14 ISFs will still eat the IS350 F-Sport for lunch. Even though I am hopping into the RCF cockpit in late November, I guess I just can't give up my loyalty to this awesome ISF.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
The only thing I keep rethinking is the color combo selection. First it was Blue w/ Black int. Then Silver w/ Red int. I locked it in with Orange w/ Black int. But now in the back of my mind the new photos of Gray w/ Red int are pretty sick! I will leave it at Orange for now since it can be 'seen' in both day and night time. Why purchase the new top of the line F vehicle and be 'hidden'? I'm not wearing a batman mask around town -_-
Last edited by Badman Forever; Sep 14, 2014 at 07:00 AM.
Not exactly. ISF001 has is right here:
The 2011 IS-F Lightning Lapped at 3:05, and with the subtle changes between 2011 and 2014, I would expect the 2014 to be another second or two quicker. This rather clearly steals any F-Sport's lunch money and disappears on the horizon. The RCF really needs to be under 3:00 to prove the engineering effort worked. This remains to be seen, but given the largess of the competitors around the 3 minute mark (save the M4 and Corvette Stingray) it might very well be possible.
The 2011 IS-F Lightning Lapped at 3:05, and with the subtle changes between 2011 and 2014, I would expect the 2014 to be another second or two quicker. This rather clearly steals any F-Sport's lunch money and disappears on the horizon. The RCF really needs to be under 3:00 to prove the engineering effort worked. This remains to be seen, but given the largess of the competitors around the 3 minute mark (save the M4 and Corvette Stingray) it might very well be possible.
http://www.imsa.com/articles/vir-rep...-playing-field
well i think ill get a GTR for the time being and when the newer updated bigger power and lighter ? (hopefully) RCF comes out ill jump to it again
my colour pic would be orange with white interior
and non carbon pack
as all australian models will come with the cool headlight and TVD standard
my colour pic would be orange with white interior
and non carbon pack
as all australian models will come with the cool headlight and TVD standard
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well i think ill get a GTR for the time being and when the newer updated bigger power and lighter ? (hopefully) RCF comes out ill jump to it again
my colour pic would be orange with white interior
and non carbon pack
as all australian models will come with the cool headlight and TVD standard
my colour pic would be orange with white interior
and non carbon pack
as all australian models will come with the cool headlight and TVD standard
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
I'm keeping my GTR as a secondary weekend vehicle. The RCF will replace my FRS as daily driver. I use to daily drive my GTR for the first 6 mos of ownership. But I racked up the normal windshield rockchip, paintchip, door ding and wheel rash. I had to put it on the sidelines now for the most part. It's also an extremely stiff ride and you always hear the awd working away. So I wouldn't recommend the GTR as a primary vehicle, everyone ends up getting another ride soon after to relieve it from everyday wear.
to complicate things VIR got repaved, some parts of the track got wider, and curbs changed so going to be difficult to compare some of the older times with the newer.
http://www.imsa.com/articles/vir-rep...-playing-field
http://www.imsa.com/articles/vir-rep...-playing-field
For 2014, Haywood’s concerns have been addressed. While the track maintains its original racing line, the track was widened by six feet at several locations to allow easier passing. - See more at: http://www.imsa.com/articles/vir-rep....wGjkOC8P.dpuf
New pavement also means slower times until the new pavement gets a little age. When Sears Point (now Infineon) repaved way back in 1985, the local motorcycle racing club (AFM) cancelled the first event of the year because the asphalt was too slick for beginners/intermediate riders and they didn't want to host a crash fest. They nearly cancelled the second event of the season as well. We were all really happy the course was repaved, but mighty unhappy it was taking quite awhile for the new surface to get scrubbed in. It's not a big deal with cars because they don't fall down, they just spin more easily, and controlling spins is pretty straight forward. Lowsiding or locking your front wheel on a bike is a whole different personal injury risk profile.
Rookie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: ON
Don't forget the wild card here....the new 2015 Mustang 5.0 with the Performance pack and there saying the 2.3L Ecoboost with the track pack is going to be hard to beat for the money.
The 2.3L Ecoboost is getting some realtuners on board as of late Mishimoto and Cobb have committed to making software tunes (Accessport) and intercoolers, CAI, Downpipes, exhaust.
The 2.3L Ecoboost is getting some realtuners on board as of late Mishimoto and Cobb have committed to making software tunes (Accessport) and intercoolers, CAI, Downpipes, exhaust.
It's not.
The Mustang was, and is, a low cost, muscle car. It's not a sports car. It uses a normal Ford family car platform.
The V8 sounds great, is relatively cheap, and goes fast in a straight line, but comparing it to an M4 or RC F is crazy.
Rookie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: ON
There is only one reason I can see for buying a Lexus - the perception of reliability. Why do I say perception? Because nearly every 2UR engine had a failed coolant pump replaced under warranty. I had a Lexus service adviser tell me the leak "might be acceptable, and Lexus won't warranty it." That's not what anyone with a clue says about a coolant leak. Zero leakage is the only acceptable answer. Now owners are finding the engine makes a completely random ticking noise at idle under various conditions. No one at Lexus has been able to tell me, "Yeah, it's just a weird noise, but it won't be an issue" or "Bring that thing in right now, we've got a fix for it." Another owner had the same issue, and Lexus kept his IS-F for two weeks before replacing the serpentine belt tensioner and making the noise go away (as I told him it would based on my car). Bad news is, the noise comes back in 6 months. AMHIK.
Did the bolster on the driver's seat burn through and hole in less than 100k miles? Sure did. Did that happen on my Supra? No, it sure didn't.
Are these fuel pump failures? Turbo failures? DCT failures? No. Are they real and being swept under the rug? Yup!
So while I have not been stranded by my IS-F, I surely have had my issues with the car and they are quality related. Please tell me why I should believe there will be no quality issues with the RCF. I'm all ears.
Did the bolster on the driver's seat burn through and hole in less than 100k miles? Sure did. Did that happen on my Supra? No, it sure didn't.
Are these fuel pump failures? Turbo failures? DCT failures? No. Are they real and being swept under the rug? Yup!
So while I have not been stranded by my IS-F, I surely have had my issues with the car and they are quality related. Please tell me why I should believe there will be no quality issues with the RCF. I'm all ears.
I have a 2012 Lexus, which I leased brand new. Reliability has been disappointing. Not so much the car itself, but the service and attitude of head office.
I had a side window blow out on the highway, due to defective glass. Nothing hit it.
Have you ever had a window explode in your face at 75 mph? I don't recommend it.
I had (minor) cuts on my face and my wedding was the following week.
You would think that after the sudden acceleration recall fiasco that Toyota went through that Lexus would send the glass pieces back to Japan to get it investigated, right? Especially since I could have lost control and crashed…
Nope.
Nothing.
They did NOT care.
I had a worse attitude and experience than dealing with my local telco.
Is that great reliability?
Also add that an inside door handle popped off and wouldn't stay on, leaving passengers with the handle in their hands when they close the door…
and a coolant-related recall…
I'm no longer a fan of Toyota reliability.
Rookie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: ON
The RCF engine comes straight out of the LS460 hybrid.
The RCF chassis has been cobbled together from the Lexus/Toyota parts bin - nothing is new.
The M3/4 does NOT have the same engine as the last gen… what are you talking about?!
Rookie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: ON
DCT Problems and BMW M4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This might make you feel much better...
"The double clutch transmissions that have plagued the older E9X generation M3 seem to have carried over with a few DCT failures on cars like this, which has 400 miles. The entire transmission needs to be replaced.
Worst of all, BMW assist left him stranded on the road with a pregnant wife and did nothing about it.
No wonder, in racing they don't touch double clutch transmissions with a 10 foot pole."
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003637
Quote:
Was driving last night on the freeway and all of a sudden on the nav screen it said Drivetrain malfunction... Car went into neutral and I coasted onto the shoulder.
When I tried to put the dct in gear it would switch back to park. So it was stuck in gear.. Pressed the SOS button and the call connected and I listened to music on hold for 1 1/2 hours.. No one ever picked up and I could not disconnect. Finally the call ended on its own and I called bmw road side direct from my cell. Bmw road side played so many games, kept canceling tow trucks after waiting 2 hours and then scheduling a tow etc.. Supervisor didn't care at bmw when I escalated it. My wife and I were stranded from 6:45pm to 2am with no food or water. Bmw couldn't reach anyone who wanted to take responsibility for my car being it is lower to the ground and can risk scraping the bumper when pulling on to a flat bed.
The car needed a low loading tow truck.. Bmw said we are going to have to spend the night.. I called AAA and they had the nicest guy out in 30 min.. He didn't have the right truck either but he works with a local bmw dealer and knew exactly how to Handel it.. Bmw roadside never once helped and never told the towing people what we needed to move the car.
My m4 has only 400 miles on it and it's broken.. It's at the dealer now so god only knows what it will need?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This might make you feel much better...
"The double clutch transmissions that have plagued the older E9X generation M3 seem to have carried over with a few DCT failures on cars like this, which has 400 miles. The entire transmission needs to be replaced.
Worst of all, BMW assist left him stranded on the road with a pregnant wife and did nothing about it.
No wonder, in racing they don't touch double clutch transmissions with a 10 foot pole."
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003637
Quote:
Was driving last night on the freeway and all of a sudden on the nav screen it said Drivetrain malfunction... Car went into neutral and I coasted onto the shoulder.
When I tried to put the dct in gear it would switch back to park. So it was stuck in gear.. Pressed the SOS button and the call connected and I listened to music on hold for 1 1/2 hours.. No one ever picked up and I could not disconnect. Finally the call ended on its own and I called bmw road side direct from my cell. Bmw road side played so many games, kept canceling tow trucks after waiting 2 hours and then scheduling a tow etc.. Supervisor didn't care at bmw when I escalated it. My wife and I were stranded from 6:45pm to 2am with no food or water. Bmw couldn't reach anyone who wanted to take responsibility for my car being it is lower to the ground and can risk scraping the bumper when pulling on to a flat bed.
The car needed a low loading tow truck.. Bmw said we are going to have to spend the night.. I called AAA and they had the nicest guy out in 30 min.. He didn't have the right truck either but he works with a local bmw dealer and knew exactly how to Handel it.. Bmw roadside never once helped and never told the towing people what we needed to move the car.
My m4 has only 400 miles on it and it's broken.. It's at the dealer now so god only knows what it will need?
So your link at the F80 forum doesn't point to anything.
The other thing here is that the guy with the M4 implies his car is lower than normal: "...take responsibility for my car being it is lower to the ground"
No question BMW's are not as reliable as Lexus. But Lexus has problems too, and I think they are cutting corners and getting worse, not better. (If my experience is any indication.)
Plus, the Lexus head office customer service is terrible, just terrible. See my earlier post.