Anyone else rethinking their order?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,211
Likes: 260
^^no, not at all. I'm unhappy I got neither of the two things most important to me. If you're going to cripple the car by fixing the alignment and making only toe adjustable, why can't it at least show up in the lighter weigh column? If you've built one of the most exotic road going sports cars and learned massive amounts about how to use carbon fiber, and even built custom looms to make this possible, why can't we get a car of equal weight to the IS-F?
As one of the people who actually DOES take his car to the track, wouldn't it be nice to run a full 20 minute session without having to back off a notch because the RE050As or PS2 are getting greasy?
Yaguchi said of the IS-F "I wanted to build a car as fun to drive on lap 10 as it is on lap 1." I expected the RCF to take this to the next level. It will be hard pressed to make the next level with the configuration they offer today. Maybe in 5 years, just like the IS-F, they will find the next level with small changes over time. I hope so.
As one of the people who actually DOES take his car to the track, wouldn't it be nice to run a full 20 minute session without having to back off a notch because the RE050As or PS2 are getting greasy?
Yaguchi said of the IS-F "I wanted to build a car as fun to drive on lap 10 as it is on lap 1." I expected the RCF to take this to the next level. It will be hard pressed to make the next level with the configuration they offer today. Maybe in 5 years, just like the IS-F, they will find the next level with small changes over time. I hope so.
And they will likely feel like two completely different vehicles. Not to mention that RC-F is not a 2 door IS at all, but 1/3 GS, 1/3 IS and 1/3 IS-C.
Of course, another thing is that all of the reviews that people are mentioning here say that IS-F wasnt that good car and that RC-F is a LOT better.
Another point of the M4 that everyone keeps sticking to - "fake" weights... According to bimmerpost, people have tested fully optioned M4 to be over 3600lbs with full fluids and that BMW's ads about 3300lbs were all fake lies with models never available anywhere (base models without fluid), with actual car being +300lbs heavier. On the other hand, Lexus told us RC-F weight 8 months ago. Sure, it does not help that journos are stupid and that they think how there is 700lbs difference.
We had NX previews few weeks back. US journalists were given very small number for trunk size. Euro journalists were given very large number for trunk size. It is same trunk, same car, no differences. US journalists claimed how the car has really bad trunk and by the far worst in the class and Euro journalists claimed how trunk was biggest in the class and really great. Both sets of journos even supplied they own pics of the same trunk, pointing out how small/big it was.
Moral of the story - wait until you drive the vehicle.
After seeing that M4 has no hood insulation at all, I am pretty sure that these two vehicles are targeting two different markets completely.
And they will likely feel like two completely different vehicles. Not to mention that RC-F is not a 2 door IS at all, but 1/3 GS, 1/3 IS and 1/3 IS-C.
Of course, another thing is that all of the reviews that people are mentioning here say that IS-F wasnt that good car and that RC-F is a LOT better.
Another point of the M4 that everyone keeps sticking to - "fake" weights... According to bimmerpost, people have tested fully optioned M4 to be over 3600lbs with full fluids and that BMW's ads about 3300lbs were all fake lies with models never available anywhere (base models without fluid), with actual car being +300lbs heavier. On the other hand, Lexus told us RC-F weight 8 months ago. Sure, it does not help that journos are stupid and that they think how there is 700lbs difference.
We had NX previews few weeks back. US journalists were given very small number for trunk size. Euro journalists were given very large number for trunk size. It is same trunk, same car, no differences. US journalists claimed how the car has really bad trunk and by the far worst in the class and Euro journalists claimed how trunk was biggest in the class and really great. Both sets of journos even supplied they own pics of the same trunk, pointing out how small/big it was.
Moral of the story - wait until you drive the vehicle.
And they will likely feel like two completely different vehicles. Not to mention that RC-F is not a 2 door IS at all, but 1/3 GS, 1/3 IS and 1/3 IS-C.
Of course, another thing is that all of the reviews that people are mentioning here say that IS-F wasnt that good car and that RC-F is a LOT better.
Another point of the M4 that everyone keeps sticking to - "fake" weights... According to bimmerpost, people have tested fully optioned M4 to be over 3600lbs with full fluids and that BMW's ads about 3300lbs were all fake lies with models never available anywhere (base models without fluid), with actual car being +300lbs heavier. On the other hand, Lexus told us RC-F weight 8 months ago. Sure, it does not help that journos are stupid and that they think how there is 700lbs difference.
We had NX previews few weeks back. US journalists were given very small number for trunk size. Euro journalists were given very large number for trunk size. It is same trunk, same car, no differences. US journalists claimed how the car has really bad trunk and by the far worst in the class and Euro journalists claimed how trunk was biggest in the class and really great. Both sets of journos even supplied they own pics of the same trunk, pointing out how small/big it was.
Moral of the story - wait until you drive the vehicle.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,395
Likes: 2
From: ATL
Guarantee that the numbers are MUCH closer on a dyno. The M3/4's are putting down over 400/400, at the wheels. I know the RC-F won't match the tq numbers...and probably not the hp numbers, either.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,351
Likes: 2,744
From: Calgary, AB
The comparison is between IS-F and RC-F. Re-read what he said and my correction to it.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; Sep 9, 2014 at 07:05 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 608
Likes: 15
From: atl
This whole promotion for press seems to be a disaster with prototypes.
Lexus went about it the wrong way. They forgot to do the most important thing - just sell the car! (overconfidence?)
When I first found out about this event, my first question for JoeZ was "is Scott Pruett going to be there to give people rides around Monticello?" Obviously, that was not the case. Lexus needed to bring Justin Bell and Scott Pruett to truly demonstrate the capabilities of the car and sell it to perspective customers.
It does not matter even if they are ex race car drivers. There was a story of pro race car driver Randy Pobst getting scared and intimidated by the LFA's oversteering behavior and tail swinging wildly when he pushed it to its limit to get the 1:36 lap time at Laguna Seca and then Justin Bell took Pobst around Laguna Seca and MT was blown away at how masterfully he controlled the LFA making it dance at his finger tips even at the extreme limits.
Point is, nothing beats having proper seat time behind a car and learning where its limits are and how to control the car at its limits. Lexus needed to have an RC-F expert to demonstrate how to extract the best out of it and it would have sold everyone who rode shotgun with these pro drivers.
Lexus went about it the wrong way. They forgot to do the most important thing - just sell the car! (overconfidence?)
When I first found out about this event, my first question for JoeZ was "is Scott Pruett going to be there to give people rides around Monticello?" Obviously, that was not the case. Lexus needed to bring Justin Bell and Scott Pruett to truly demonstrate the capabilities of the car and sell it to perspective customers.
It does not matter even if they are ex race car drivers. There was a story of pro race car driver Randy Pobst getting scared and intimidated by the LFA's oversteering behavior and tail swinging wildly when he pushed it to its limit to get the 1:36 lap time at Laguna Seca and then Justin Bell took Pobst around Laguna Seca and MT was blown away at how masterfully he controlled the LFA making it dance at his finger tips even at the extreme limits.
Point is, nothing beats having proper seat time behind a car and learning where its limits are and how to control the car at its limits. Lexus needed to have an RC-F expert to demonstrate how to extract the best out of it and it would have sold everyone who rode shotgun with these pro drivers.
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 4
From: PA
With this said, I like the wild beast.
Last edited by ISF001; Sep 10, 2014 at 07:25 AM.
C&D Lightning Lap showed up in the mail. The RCF release was far too late for inclusion. I look forward to seeing how the RCF stacks up in the next one. C&D had high praise for the IS350 F Sport, and it set a time even quicker than the 2008 ISF. Lots of commentary about how much more solid this chassis is compared to the 2IS, and a 3:13.3 isn't a bad showing at all for a car with the worst hp/weight ratio in the class.
Sadly, the Z-28 Camaro, a $75,000 car, was able to lap VIR in 2:50.9 (9.8 seconds quicker than M4). M4's showing was 5 seconds a lap quicker than the M3 at 3:00.7 (so much for them being "equal" for testing purposes), and the new Corvette mopped the floor with the BMW at 2:53.8. Oh wait, new Corvette? Yes, the Stingray; no, not some special hot rodded Vette, MSRP as tested $65,665 (but it did mysteriously die at the track - supposedly oil contamination). This is right where the RCF should be too, but we'll just have to wait and see.
So that was a long winded way to say, no, I would never consider owning the M4 for any reason. But I might visit a Chevrolet dealer just for fun.
Sadly, the Z-28 Camaro, a $75,000 car, was able to lap VIR in 2:50.9 (9.8 seconds quicker than M4). M4's showing was 5 seconds a lap quicker than the M3 at 3:00.7 (so much for them being "equal" for testing purposes), and the new Corvette mopped the floor with the BMW at 2:53.8. Oh wait, new Corvette? Yes, the Stingray; no, not some special hot rodded Vette, MSRP as tested $65,665 (but it did mysteriously die at the track - supposedly oil contamination). This is right where the RCF should be too, but we'll just have to wait and see.
So that was a long winded way to say, no, I would never consider owning the M4 for any reason. But I might visit a Chevrolet dealer just for fun.
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 4
From: PA
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
C&D Lightning Lap showed up in the mail. The RCF release was far too late for inclusion. I look forward to seeing how the RCF stacks up in the next one. C&D had high praise for the IS350 F Sport, and it set a time even quicker than the 2008 ISF. Lots of commentary about how much more solid this chassis is compared to the 2IS, and a 3:13.3 isn't a bad showing at all for a car with the worst hp/weight ratio in the class.
Sadly, the Z-28 Camaro, a $75,000 car, was able to lap VIR in 2:50.9 (9.8 seconds quicker than M4). M4's showing was 5 seconds a lap quicker than the M3 at 3:00.7 (so much for them being "equal" for testing purposes), and the new Corvette mopped the floor with the BMW at 2:53.8. Oh wait, new Corvette? Yes, the Stingray; no, not some special hot rodded Vette, MSRP as tested $65,665 (but it did mysteriously die at the track - supposedly oil contamination). This is right where the RCF should be too, but we'll just have to wait and see.
So that was a long winded way to say, no, I would never consider owning the M4 for any reason. But I might visit a Chevrolet dealer just for fun.
Sadly, the Z-28 Camaro, a $75,000 car, was able to lap VIR in 2:50.9 (9.8 seconds quicker than M4). M4's showing was 5 seconds a lap quicker than the M3 at 3:00.7 (so much for them being "equal" for testing purposes), and the new Corvette mopped the floor with the BMW at 2:53.8. Oh wait, new Corvette? Yes, the Stingray; no, not some special hot rodded Vette, MSRP as tested $65,665 (but it did mysteriously die at the track - supposedly oil contamination). This is right where the RCF should be too, but we'll just have to wait and see.
So that was a long winded way to say, no, I would never consider owning the M4 for any reason. But I might visit a Chevrolet dealer just for fun.
BMW has official weight of almost 3600 on their website. People have weighed some of their stripper builds and got to low 3500s with full gas
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; Sep 10, 2014 at 06:36 AM.