BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Big HP is always cool, I am just grateful that Lexus is making a V8 GSF at all, even with "only" 465 hp. It could be worse, like keeping the same 300 hp V6 and just adding a 100 hp electric boost for a total of 400 hp hybrid F drive. Or don't make a GS-F at all.

For people who don't realized, this (465 hp GS-F) is the highest HP car Lexus ever made so far, except the no one can afford LFA.

Some people are not grateful for anything, is so funny.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

because it has the gsF badge, not gs500?

and wait, isn't that why a lot of people right here on clublexus dislike and bash the new nsx about? that it's probably won't be able to compare to other supercars? quoting people's favorite, double standard?

(read: i am not juding on the new nsx. i don't like the car but mostly coz' it's going to be hybrid)

so i guess we both think the same, except the naming. but if that's lexus way of dealing with the f badge

well maybe you are talking about others, but i am surely grateful of a v8 gs (go back to who was one of the very first to bash lexus for not having a v8 gs). it's just the market and badge. i guess you and i already talked about how such a gsf will go against the m5 and e63 (but then maybe some think they are not in the same league?)

i guess to me having something doesn't mean i have to grateful of it, unless i think it makes sense

LexFather

And the "only" 420hp S6 beat the M5 and E63 in a comparison as well. See a trend here? Peak HP is not everything. Again I do not deny the coolness or bragging rights of peak HP wars, it works, its sells to people and its easy as hell to market. Its also easy to make. What is harder is a car that is the complete package. The M3 has never out powered rivals but its usually the best driver of the bunch.

The FRS/BRZ/GT86 has gotten glowing reviews not for being overpowering cars but for the overall delicate balance they bring. Hopefully the GS F can do that as well since it will be underpowered to the competition.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i was reading more and found this

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/8165851-post4.html
so audi sold around 100 s6 last month it seems

http://www.m5portal.com/forum/f10m5_modelljahr.asp
for bmw i can't find numbers, but seems like around 3500 produced for 2013 for the US, so around 295 sold a month?

and then i saw this last hour
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...our-gs-is.html
talking about how painful the v8 gs460 sales / production were

i think this kind of illustrates my point. a car can drive great, but it also needs to sell to really help a brand. otherwise it might only become another reason for people to bash (especially lexus right?). granted, i do think even if lexus steals the m5 and snap on the lexus badge, they still won't sell as many copies. but i am just thinking, 1 1/2 year ago people were defending the gs350 like no tomorrow saying that sales numbers are more important to lexus and they could care less about a low volume v8, so maybe now they are trying to have a v8 again but use the gsf badge to try make it sell better? just maybe, just thinking.

for sure i hope i am wrong, i hope gsf sells great and does well for the brand image. i already know the car is going to drive great. but i am just looking at both sides of the statements from lexus diehard fans and see about the contradictions

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you 100% and it is always how I think. This is exactly why Lexus is not making a $120k 575 hp M5/E63/RS6 direct competitor, because it won't sell just because it is a Lexus, regardless of how amazing it drive.

Only 20 guys from this forum would buy one, that won't support the business case

The GS460 didn't sell because it was detuned to 340 hp, a lot more would be sold if it was 400 hp.

LexFather

Some people were defending the GS 350 b/c some of us own the car and it is a Lexus forum where people's interests will be toward the brand, that is natural. Instead some people were focused on ****ing fog-lights being missing in every thread.:roll eyes: The jest of the GS was the V-8 surely will be missed so who these people defending the GS like no tomorrow when the V-8 was dropped? What was said is we can understand the reasons why, even if we don't like them. No one pretty much liked the fact the V-8 was not an option.

It's pretty clear Lexus is getting serious about F and F-sport and they are an honorable company so it would make little sense for them to just drop a V-8 in it and title it "F" to sell cars. The F marque is trying to establish itself as making some amazing driving vehicles as the LFA and IS F have showed.

There are no contradictions. It seems some of you are trying real hard to stir the pot against Lexus owners on a Lexus forum. And instead of supporting early efforts for the "F" marque we are finding every reason why it won't compete or be a real option.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I am not stirring it up, I am just telling it like it is and reality is harsh. I would love Lexus to make a LS650 with a Twin Turbo V12 that is reliable like a Camry to compete with the S65. I would definitely own one. But dream and valid business case are 2 different things.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i have no problem with the bias and i can live with it, i just find it funny on how to tone changes and reasons / excuses shifting when the market evolves. you don't like the talk about fog lights? get over it and move on, no one is forcing you. it's no difference than those who pick on the grille every time the word acura comes out right? the key was about looking at details and understanding the market as well as lexus cost approach to their lineup. and the reality is that the "cry" for more options and flexibility has gotten to lexus and they are looking into ways to provide more options. but i guess all that is probably too hard for simple-minded people to realize and understand. well i am glad lexus knows how to take criticisms positively.

i personally don't see how only patting on the back is a helpful thing to lexus. actually from the very beginning i already applauded lexus on the isf and the push on lfa. it's a great direction and a huge shift which was necessary (long before that i had been saying lexus audience was getting too old and they needed new blood). and i kept on saying they needed more sporty cars and now we have the new gs and is, both incredible machines. so to say i am not supporting?

but that doesn't mean i would go out and just bow and praise every move they make like a diehard fan, i don't feel to need to and in reality that's useless to lexus too. i pitch what i think makes sense and would be helpful in the growth of lexus. maybe i am right, maybe i am wrong. not long ago you were among those who hammer hard on the HS right? that's no difference than what some others are doing here. history proved you right that HS shouldn't exist, but one can also say you stirred up the pot against lexus in expanding hybrid market?

if i don't support or give a damn about a brand or company or person, i can care less about posting about them. i am sure you are the same way but we are just doing it differently. that is fine i have no problem with it, but that's not how i operate.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

nice article on clublexus front page

https://www.clublexus.com/articles/g...lexus-gs-f.php

i am glad that some other clublexus editor is agreeing with some of us here, rather than trying to say lexus is opening up a different market. too bad though from my understand it might not happen. good thing is lexus pays close attention to stuff like this

pbm317

It's not just a V8 shoved into a GS, which would be a GS500. It's going to be the suspension, wheels, tires, seats, brakes, exhaust, additional body work, you name it.

Standard V8 models will soon be disappearing. I believe Mercedes also announced that they'll soon be dropping the E550 and replace it with a Twin Turbo V6 model.

Again, these are just steps, if each step is successful i'm sure it will warrant a case for something even better.

I8ABMR

I just want it to BEAT THE GERMANS in the big boy league once and for all. Overall balance is the key not just HP ( even though the Germans have been waging HP wars for a decade) . BUT having the most power is not a bad way to market the car and to get buyers from other brands to come into the show room and take a test drive. When I think of the GSF I try to remind myself of the LFAs splash in the market. Expensive, not the most powerful but still the greatest car J. Clarkson has driven and he had driven them all ( literally). I knew the LFA was a bad *** car when EVO magazine said it took down the Ferrari 599 GTO ( that is a serious **** from the serious factory ). Lexus builds amazing vehicles. They need to show the world its more than just reliability and customer service. We want it all and we are willing to pay. DO IT LEXUS

LexFather

Telling what how it is? No one is disagreeing that 550hp would be nice…what I am saying is 465hp is a nice starting point and surely a nice jump from 306hp. AMG/M/RS didn't start off with 550hp, it took DECADES to get to that point. Its easy to look at them now in 2013 and say "on Lexus doesn't have 550hp"

The LFA was relatively low on power to rivals and other exotics and still is regarded as one of the best built for the overall balance. A lot of cars with similar reviews are the same.

I guess we will see since it seems turbo 6 and 8 cylinders are coming and maybe a LS F will come with over 500hp next generation. I just don't expect it now.

LexFather

Ryan is entitled to his opinion. Whats funny is I broke the GS-F story and the thread was locked/moved, etc He is right that it won't win AMG/M etc over with 465hp and guess what, at 650hp it won't win over AMG/M etc. People want what they want and rarely is there a mass exodus to the new rival. People choose the F Lexus for attributes they can appreciate and the AMG/M etc cars still continue to sell well.

The IS F is low on power to the RS 4 and C63 especially with the power pack. The IS F also debuted before turbos and superchargers were widely used like today.

You are right, Lexus is paying attention "to stuff like this".

TangoRed

I know this may be off base, but I wonder if Lexus will offer an optional "power pack" of some sort like Mercedes.

LexFather

The difference is my family has an HS, I didn't crap on the HS over and over and insult them or owners over and over. I pointed out the negatives and moved on. Recently when owners wanted to lower the car I worked with RS-R to get them lowering springs. That is the reason we are here right, to help? I didn't go above and beyond to exclude HS members like you did myself at the Pursuit. I thank you though as it opened more doors for me.

No one in the HS forum or any forum here nor any forum on the internet wants to hear over and over why their choice or what they like stinks or isn't up to par. You can do that on another forum. People can find their hate for what they like elsewhere. Too many try to hide behind the "oh I'm not biased" veil when we are all biased to what we like. It is natural. Instead of us having a discussion on all the great possibilities for the GS F, we are hearing all the reasons why it stinks and won't sell and isn't up to par and why Lexus owner defended their cars etc etc.

No one is patting Lexus on the back saying stop at 465hp or this number people are stuck on. What is being said is that is a great start and it will be a nice option for many people. It is again, A GREAT START. I started a thread in the GS forum where there are people who are very interested to purchase the car with 465hp knowing full well its not some 0-60 in 2 second car.

Beating Lexus up over and over that it won't have 550hp is off-putting to members and owners and enthusiasts here. Especially those that have interest in buying the car.