Dextron III vs Toyota Type IV Tranny Fluid
07-03-05, 01:52 PM
#1
Dextron III vs Toyota Type IV Tranny Fluid
Ok, for cars that requires Dextron III, does switching to the T-IV fluid make any significant improvements?
Also, where is the best place to buy the T-IV fluid? I went to a Toyota dealership and they said they no longer have them in gallon jugs, only in a quart at 4.50.
Also, where is the best place to buy the T-IV fluid? I went to a Toyota dealership and they said they no longer have them in gallon jugs, only in a quart at 4.50.
07-03-05, 04:20 PM
#2
San Diego Toyota dealerships have the fluid in quart and gallon containers. At $4.50 a quart for the TOYOTA fluid, I decided to go with the AMSOIL Synthetic Fluid. I love the way it shifts. Along with an aftermarket transmission cooler, the switch makes my car perform GREAT!
07-30-05, 05:10 PM
#3
Pole Position
Originally Posted by gserep1
San Diego Toyota dealerships have the fluid in quart and gallon containers. At $4.50 a quart for the TOYOTA fluid, I decided to go with the AMSOIL Synthetic Fluid. I love the way it shifts. Along with an aftermarket transmission cooler, the switch makes my car perform GREAT!
07-31-05, 01:17 AM
#4
Transmissions aren't cheap. If the manual calls for Toyota T-IV I would give it T-IV.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
07-31-05, 01:22 AM
#5
Lexus Connoisseur
For the record its called DEXRON...not dexTRON. 
DEXRON/MERCON is how you will see it labled on bottles. Deja vu!?!
DEXRON/MERCON is how you will see it labled on bottles. Deja vu!?!
07-31-05, 01:30 AM
#6
Originally Posted by damon
Transmissions aren't cheap. If the manual calls for Toyota T-IV I would give it T-IV.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
07-31-05, 11:43 AM
#7
Pole Position
Originally Posted by damon
Transmissions aren't cheap. If the manual calls for Toyota T-IV I would give it T-IV.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
I agree the Toyota type IV is indeed a 'starting point' but switching the the Amsoil is a big step forward. And using Amsoil is hardly shortcutting considering the fact that I passed maybe 5 (and probably double that for Toyota dealers) Lexus dealers in order to buy this stuff.
If this fluid actually damaged & caused problems for Toyota / Lexus owners I doubt it would be still listed on the Amsoil website (seen it there for several years now) as safe to use.
Last edited by Lexusfreak; 07-31-05 at 11:47 AM.
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08-06-05, 10:26 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by damon
Transmissions aren't cheap. If the manual calls for Toyota T-IV I would give it T-IV.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
Other tranny fluids may indeed be upgrades but T-IV should be your minimum starting point.
You are not saving actual money by shortcutting, just the time & effort to go get it from the dealer.
Price a new or rebuilt transmission & do the math.
08-06-05, 10:28 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Lexusfreak
I have already done my research on this.........I asked the question a while back on both Lexus clubs I belong to (and also Toyotanation.com) regarding the Amsoil synthetic ATF & nobody said they had tranny damage of failure as a direct result of using the Amsoil. I also contacted Amsoil directly.
I agree the Toyota type IV is indeed a 'starting point' but switching the the Amsoil is a big step forward. And using Amsoil is hardly shortcutting considering the fact that I passed maybe 5 (and probably double that for Toyota dealers) Lexus dealers in order to buy this stuff.
If this fluid actually damaged & caused problems for Toyota / Lexus owners I doubt it would be still listed on the Amsoil website (seen it there for several years now) as safe to use.
I agree the Toyota type IV is indeed a 'starting point' but switching the the Amsoil is a big step forward. And using Amsoil is hardly shortcutting considering the fact that I passed maybe 5 (and probably double that for Toyota dealers) Lexus dealers in order to buy this stuff.
If this fluid actually damaged & caused problems for Toyota / Lexus owners I doubt it would be still listed on the Amsoil website (seen it there for several years now) as safe to use.
08-07-05, 01:12 AM
#10
We Are All Entitled To Our Opinion
And KOOLAIDMAN you are entitled to yours. In the long run, WE are ultimately responsible for what we DO or do NOT put in our vehicles. The final decision is always up to the respective owner.
Bottom line is, if you like the Type T-IV, then please use it. I used it and liked it, but now I use something I like better in my opinion. IF I have a failure. I will NOT be asking you for any money to fix my car.
We have the right to disagree. There is no common ground on this issue apparently.
Just know this...even Toyota has moved up to a SYNTHETIC fluid for the transmissions on the 2005 and 2006 vehicles, including the LS and the GS. These new 6 speed transmissions make more heat, and demand more of a fluid than Type T-IV can handle. Type T-IV is very unforgiving if you don't service the transmission properly. Look at the dipstick of cars using it, and even after a change it gets dirty fairly quickly. That is why it has to be changed every 30,000 miles. By then, it really needs it. Synthetics give better performance and extend the drain periods significantly if you like.
This is not what I have HEARD, it is what I KNOW from YEARS of using synthetics...I have NEVER had a transmission failure in ANY of my cars while using synthetics. We ALL become spokespeople for the things that work for US.
I have seen a remarkable difference when either Mobil 1 synthetic transmission fluid or AMSOIL fluid is used in my transmissions. The fluid stays cleaner and resists contamination by the clutches and bands much longer. Add a transmission cooler to lower the temperature even more, and your fluid lasts even longer.
Believe what you will, but many of us are sold on the merits of synthetics, and just like I can't convince YOU, YOU can't convince ME that Type T-IV is better than a synthetic. SORRY, but no way!
Lets' just do what we want with our own cars and see how it goes...NUFF SAID!
Bottom line is, if you like the Type T-IV, then please use it. I used it and liked it, but now I use something I like better in my opinion. IF I have a failure. I will NOT be asking you for any money to fix my car.
We have the right to disagree. There is no common ground on this issue apparently.
Just know this...even Toyota has moved up to a SYNTHETIC fluid for the transmissions on the 2005 and 2006 vehicles, including the LS and the GS. These new 6 speed transmissions make more heat, and demand more of a fluid than Type T-IV can handle. Type T-IV is very unforgiving if you don't service the transmission properly. Look at the dipstick of cars using it, and even after a change it gets dirty fairly quickly. That is why it has to be changed every 30,000 miles. By then, it really needs it. Synthetics give better performance and extend the drain periods significantly if you like.
This is not what I have HEARD, it is what I KNOW from YEARS of using synthetics...I have NEVER had a transmission failure in ANY of my cars while using synthetics. We ALL become spokespeople for the things that work for US.
I have seen a remarkable difference when either Mobil 1 synthetic transmission fluid or AMSOIL fluid is used in my transmissions. The fluid stays cleaner and resists contamination by the clutches and bands much longer. Add a transmission cooler to lower the temperature even more, and your fluid lasts even longer.
Believe what you will, but many of us are sold on the merits of synthetics, and just like I can't convince YOU, YOU can't convince ME that Type T-IV is better than a synthetic. SORRY, but no way!
Lets' just do what we want with our own cars and see how it goes...NUFF SAID!
Last edited by gserep1; 08-07-05 at 01:20 AM.
08-07-05, 08:35 AM
#11
I think people are losing track of the original question. This is not bout Type-IV vs Amsoil. The question is can Type-IV be used in an application that calls for Dexron-II/III such as early model SC300s. I would also like to know the answer to this.
You can't go wrong with OEM fluids. Upgraded fluids are at your own discression.
You can't go wrong with OEM fluids. Upgraded fluids are at your own discression.
08-07-05, 09:12 AM
#12
Pole Position
Originally Posted by gserep1
And KOOLAIDMAN you are entitled to yours. In the long run, WE are ultimately responsible for what we DO or do NOT put in our vehicles. The final decision is always up to the respective owner.
Bottom line is, if you like the Type T-IV, then please use it. I used it and liked it, but now I use something I like better in my opinion. IF I have a failure. I will NOT be asking you for any money to fix my car.
We have the right to disagree. There is no common ground on this issue apparently.
Just know this...even Toyota has moved up to a SYNTHETIC fluid for the transmissions on the 2005 and 2006 vehicles, including the LS and the GS. These new 6 speed transmissions make more heat, and demand more of a fluid than Type T-IV can handle. Type T-IV is very unforgiving if you don't service the transmission properly. Look at the dipstick of cars using it, and even after a change it gets dirty fairly quickly. That is why it has to be changed every 30,000 miles. By then, it really needs it. Synthetics give better performance and extend the drain periods significantly if you like.
This is not what I have HEARD, it is what I KNOW from YEARS of using synthetics...I have NEVER had a transmission failure in ANY of my cars while using synthetics. We ALL become spokespeople for the things that work for US.
I have seen a remarkable difference when either Mobil 1 synthetic transmission fluid or AMSOIL fluid is used in my transmissions. The fluid stays cleaner and resists contamination by the clutches and bands much longer. Add a transmission cooler to lower the temperature even more, and your fluid lasts even longer.
Believe what you will, but many of us are sold on the merits of synthetics, and just like I can't convince YOU, YOU can't convince ME that Type T-IV is better than a synthetic. SORRY, but no way!
Lets' just do what we want with our own cars and see how it goes...NUFF SAID!
Bottom line is, if you like the Type T-IV, then please use it. I used it and liked it, but now I use something I like better in my opinion. IF I have a failure. I will NOT be asking you for any money to fix my car.
We have the right to disagree. There is no common ground on this issue apparently.
Just know this...even Toyota has moved up to a SYNTHETIC fluid for the transmissions on the 2005 and 2006 vehicles, including the LS and the GS. These new 6 speed transmissions make more heat, and demand more of a fluid than Type T-IV can handle. Type T-IV is very unforgiving if you don't service the transmission properly. Look at the dipstick of cars using it, and even after a change it gets dirty fairly quickly. That is why it has to be changed every 30,000 miles. By then, it really needs it. Synthetics give better performance and extend the drain periods significantly if you like.
This is not what I have HEARD, it is what I KNOW from YEARS of using synthetics...I have NEVER had a transmission failure in ANY of my cars while using synthetics. We ALL become spokespeople for the things that work for US.
I have seen a remarkable difference when either Mobil 1 synthetic transmission fluid or AMSOIL fluid is used in my transmissions. The fluid stays cleaner and resists contamination by the clutches and bands much longer. Add a transmission cooler to lower the temperature even more, and your fluid lasts even longer.
Believe what you will, but many of us are sold on the merits of synthetics, and just like I can't convince YOU, YOU can't convince ME that Type T-IV is better than a synthetic. SORRY, but no way!
Lets' just do what we want with our own cars and see how it goes...NUFF SAID!
And for the record, I didn't speak with the 'marketing' department, I spoke with the engineering department. The gent I spoke with asked me as many questions as I asked him because he knows if the they lie or tell the customer something weird, they could be sued & they have a PR mess to clean up. He understood my concerns & said the Amsoil will be more than acceptable for my ES. I too have never had a tranny failure & know that I will continue that record.
08-07-05, 09:15 AM
#13
Pole Position
Originally Posted by T0ked
I think people are losing track of the original question. This is not bout Type-IV vs Amsoil. The question is can Type-IV be used in an application that calls for Dexron-II/III such as early model SC300s. I would also like to know the answer to this.
You can't go wrong with OEM fluids. Upgraded fluids are at your own discression.
You can't go wrong with OEM fluids. Upgraded fluids are at your own discression.
Call a few Toyota or Lexus dealers to see what they say, but watch out for that 'sales pitch'
Last edited by Lexusfreak; 08-07-05 at 09:23 AM.
08-07-05, 12:56 PM
#14
It is safe to use Type-4 fluid in earlier models that require Dexron III. Most Lexus dealers now dont even have Dexron III stock so they use Type-4. My original question when I started this post was if using Type-IV in car that REQUIRES a minimun of Dexron III would yield any significant benefits to justify the much higher cost.
08-07-05, 06:38 PM
#15
YES Type T-IV IS ACCEPTABLE AS A Type III REPLACEMENT
Yes the newer fluids usally are compatible with older types. As newer fluids come in, some of the older ones are discontinued.
I meant no disrespect to anyone, and I was fully aware of the original question that was posed. I was remarking to a comment someone made that said that we should stick with the factory fluids without question. They went further to state that companies that market synthetic products are not truthful or forthright, and the products may cause long term damage to our vehicles. THEN I RESPONDED.
Some people are happy with what comes from the factory, and that is a good thing. Some of us look for an extra edge in performance, or just a bit more protection. This has resulted in better products being developed for this type of individual. When there is nothing better than factory, I accept that and use it like everyone else. If there is a choice, I investigate and make a decision whether to use it or not. I use only factory Toyota timing belts, bearings thermostats and O rings. They fit because they are made for it, BY the people who designed the vehicle in most instances. Oils and fluids are different. Generally they are made to TOYOTA standards by someone else. Aftermarket oils and fluids generally are extensively tested to ensure they are at LEAST compatible with the factory chemicals. Once a car is out of warranty, the manufacturers' obligation is over anyway, so I am free to do what I like after that.
But when someone says in essence that I (we) are wrong for messing with factory success, I question them on it sometimes. All I have to do is look under the hood of a car of some people, and I see inferior products being used, missed scheduled maintenance, and sometimes poorly performing vehicles. Sometimes it is economics...and some just don't care that much....to them a car is JUST transportation. It really shows sometimes. Most Toyota products are good because Toyota makes excellent vehicles and their parts last a long time. But there is room for improvement at times.
To those I may have offended, let me be the first to say that I am sorry. We all have opinions, and I was expressing mine without trying to make everyone else WRONG. There is no ONE way to do anything.
I'll keep using what I think is good, and if I run into a problem, I will be the first to say so. When it comes to lubricants though, my synthetic choices have served me very well over the years, and thus have helped to form my opinions.
BY THE WAY...(JUST COULDN'T RESIST THIS)... The power steering fluid for our vehicles is DEXRON, and the transmission is TYPE T-IV. Many people never bother to change this fluid, and this has resulted in the needless replacement of rack and pinions, power steering pumps, and even ALTERNATORS, because the seals in the pumps leak and spill over into the alternators, which short them out. I have seen vehicles go in for 30, 60, and 90,000 mile services, and never have this done. When I look at the fluid, it is black and dirty in many cases. When I question some service writers, they say that it is an EXTRA cost service, or that the average customer doesn't request it. Very seldom does he say that people refuse to get it. Most people go by the factory recommendations exclusively, and if it is not mentioned there, they don't worry about it....until something fails.
Because Toyota parts are SO expensive, people are taking steps to preserve what they have, and make it last longer. I change this fluid before it looks dark and gritty. Naturally, I use synthetic oil in my rack and pinion system...even though it is not normally recommended. I have had NO power steering pump or rack and pinion failures on any of my vehicles. Even when I wasn't using synthetic fluid, I flushed the systems with regular fluid anyway. Though I can't prove it, I believe this service has helped keep out of the repair shop for rack and pinions and pumps.
You make your own conclusion.
Changing fluids is a good thing..it will save you money in the long run. My VW Beetle requires brake fluid change every 20,000 miles with DOT 4. to protect the ABS system. I do it when I do brakes on my cars because even this fluid deteriorates
Just food for thought!
I meant no disrespect to anyone, and I was fully aware of the original question that was posed. I was remarking to a comment someone made that said that we should stick with the factory fluids without question. They went further to state that companies that market synthetic products are not truthful or forthright, and the products may cause long term damage to our vehicles. THEN I RESPONDED.
Some people are happy with what comes from the factory, and that is a good thing. Some of us look for an extra edge in performance, or just a bit more protection. This has resulted in better products being developed for this type of individual. When there is nothing better than factory, I accept that and use it like everyone else. If there is a choice, I investigate and make a decision whether to use it or not. I use only factory Toyota timing belts, bearings thermostats and O rings. They fit because they are made for it, BY the people who designed the vehicle in most instances. Oils and fluids are different. Generally they are made to TOYOTA standards by someone else. Aftermarket oils and fluids generally are extensively tested to ensure they are at LEAST compatible with the factory chemicals. Once a car is out of warranty, the manufacturers' obligation is over anyway, so I am free to do what I like after that.
But when someone says in essence that I (we) are wrong for messing with factory success, I question them on it sometimes. All I have to do is look under the hood of a car of some people, and I see inferior products being used, missed scheduled maintenance, and sometimes poorly performing vehicles. Sometimes it is economics...and some just don't care that much....to them a car is JUST transportation. It really shows sometimes. Most Toyota products are good because Toyota makes excellent vehicles and their parts last a long time. But there is room for improvement at times.
To those I may have offended, let me be the first to say that I am sorry. We all have opinions, and I was expressing mine without trying to make everyone else WRONG. There is no ONE way to do anything.
I'll keep using what I think is good, and if I run into a problem, I will be the first to say so. When it comes to lubricants though, my synthetic choices have served me very well over the years, and thus have helped to form my opinions.
BY THE WAY...(JUST COULDN'T RESIST THIS)... The power steering fluid for our vehicles is DEXRON, and the transmission is TYPE T-IV. Many people never bother to change this fluid, and this has resulted in the needless replacement of rack and pinions, power steering pumps, and even ALTERNATORS, because the seals in the pumps leak and spill over into the alternators, which short them out. I have seen vehicles go in for 30, 60, and 90,000 mile services, and never have this done. When I look at the fluid, it is black and dirty in many cases. When I question some service writers, they say that it is an EXTRA cost service, or that the average customer doesn't request it. Very seldom does he say that people refuse to get it. Most people go by the factory recommendations exclusively, and if it is not mentioned there, they don't worry about it....until something fails.
Because Toyota parts are SO expensive, people are taking steps to preserve what they have, and make it last longer. I change this fluid before it looks dark and gritty. Naturally, I use synthetic oil in my rack and pinion system...even though it is not normally recommended. I have had NO power steering pump or rack and pinion failures on any of my vehicles. Even when I wasn't using synthetic fluid, I flushed the systems with regular fluid anyway. Though I can't prove it, I believe this service has helped keep out of the repair shop for rack and pinions and pumps.
You make your own conclusion.
Changing fluids is a good thing..it will save you money in the long run. My VW Beetle requires brake fluid change every 20,000 miles with DOT 4. to protect the ABS system. I do it when I do brakes on my cars because even this fluid deteriorates
Just food for thought!
Last edited by gserep1; 08-07-05 at 07:32 PM.
