saber

One thing we know for sure is that if the Toyota engineers recommend anything then Americans demand to see real world data to back up the engineers' claims. But if Mobil or Amsoil or Bobistheoilguy or the Motor Oil Bible recommend anything then Americans do not demand to see real world data. They will accept just lab data or theoretical explanations.

An analogous situation concerns the use of DOT 4 brake fluid. The Toyota engineers recommend only DOT 3 fluid in the owners manual and in the Toyota technician brake systems training manual. But will Americans listen to Toyota, especially since Toyota does not explain what harm DOT 4 fluid does? Nope. Instead, Americans will follow the advice of the specialty lube salesmen who own, run and sponsor the Bobistheoilguy website. Likewise, if the Motor Oil Bible had a chapter on brake fluid they'd follow the advice of that book instead of what Toyota has to say.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

This becomes a worn discussion, each side has their points. Since none of us is going to buy two cars with identical specs and run this test, I'd go with what you feel is a comfortable maintenance interval for you. There is nothing wrong with following the recommended guidelines nor if you feel a synthetic gives you a few added miles of use, go ahead. Ultimately it is your car and you'll do with it as you want.

In the case of the tranny if it specs Type IV, you don't put in Dexron.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

My apologies for my sounding harsh, I'm all for a good discussion of pro's and con's if you wish to continue.

IMO, I would recco an oil analyisis periodically to gauge dino or synthetic in your particular application. If you are not gathering data on your own, it is easy and not costly to obtain. This way you can gauge for yourself.

steviej

iTrader: (1)

don't apologize, it was the best thing anyone has said about the synthetic/dino ~ less filling/tastes great discussion in a while.

your comment was absolutely right on the money!

steviej

bberisford

I've had positive experience with Mobil 1 as follows:

Use it in my '97 SC300. No discernable symptoms.... but the oil stays honey color for about 4K miles.

Use it in my '89 Camry 2L 4 banger. Oil stays honey color about 4k Miles.

Use it in my Chev Suburban..... which used about hafl a quart every 1500 miles (on 3K change intervals) with dyno. On Mobil 1, uses half quart in 4K miles on 6K change interval. I attribute this to the higher thermal stability of syn whereas dyno tends to 'burn off' in the valve guides of typical older GM V-8 engines.

Use it in my '97 boat (350 cid Chev V-4). No discernable oil consumption whatsoever on 100 hour change intervals. I did have a cooling system leak (lake water feed hose became disconnected and starved the engine of cooling water for several minutes). Engine temp ran up to redline before I discovered and shut down. I think Mobil 1 likely contributed to no engine damage (syn can run about 200 degrees hotter than dyno before it starts to break down). That happended 3 years ago. Boat still going strong with 500 additional hours on it since the incident.

Is Mobil 1 worth it? I say yes!! I go on 5-6K oil hange cycles in all my cars .... and think I'm getting good value. By the way, I use Mobil 1 oil filters in all my vehicles except the SC.... it gets Lexus oil filters because I want to have what the factory recommends to effectively control drainback. The Mobil 1 filter might be OK...., but I don't want to take the chance.

Wal Mart will do a Mobil 1 change (with their filter) for $32. Bring your own filter and they knock off $2.

Good luck,
Barry

autodriver

I have seen so many posts about the benefit of Synthetic over Dinosaur motor oils. It seems that people don't care about what they use in their transmission, differential, transfer case. I'm sure the benefit of synthetic over dino motor oil is less than the benefit of regular oil change on your transmission, differential, and transfer case, even with whatever approved cheap oil.

doc s

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Red Line in this thread. If you're interested in putting the best lubricant in you engine, do some homework on this stuff. Go to www.redlineoil.com and check them out.

saber

Everyone here knows about Redline. Redline lubes have been around for decades yet in all that time the Redline Company has failed to post REAL WORLD evidence on it's website that any of it's products significantly extend engine life or significantly increase engine power or fuel economy compared to conventional oils in Asian vehicles engines, transmissions, etc. Reasonable conclusion? Redline lubes don't really provide significantly better engine life, power or fuel economy when used in Asian vehicles. Same situation with Royal Purple and Amsoil.

Lexusfreak

You fail to list the benefits of using synthetics for starters for those in very cold climates & what a huge benefit synthetics play, among many others that have been mentioned in this thread & many others on this never ending topic. I'll stick to synthetic thanks.......I get a complete Amsoil (ASL) series 5W 30 oil change along with an Amsoil filter for roughly the price of the average motorist pays for a conventional oil change at the dealer or oil change chain store.

saber

Only about 20% of Lexus owners live in "very cold climates" and for them synthetic will help with cold weather starting a bit, but not as much as an engine block heater can help.

An anquaintance of mine in Fairbanks, Alaska tells me most people use conventional 5W-30 oil in winter together with an engine block heater or engine oil pan heater.

Synthetic has no discernable fuel economy benefit, no discernable engine life benefit plus it's not safe to extend oil changes when using synthetic according to Lexus.

mburnickas

#1 Really. Hmm. I see minus –22 this year in MASS and any dino oil will not pour at this temp, let alone the pumping temp. Maybe that is not how you define cold. Even a group 3 hydrocracked oil will almost have a hard time at this temp. Did you ever look at the pour points? If so, you know if is junk since it is not the temp at which the engine can pump it.

#2 Just because everyone does it does mean it is correct. I know many people that buy on price and not performace. I also know many users that if they can’t buy oil at Walmart, they do not look elsewhere.

So now some person on a Lexus board is proving Mobil, Amsoil, Fleetguard, Redline and others wrong. Give me a break saber.

Have I seen inprovments in MPG, no. I change too early to real synthetics (PAO or ester) right when I drive them home. I do see better wear #’s and my oil analysis proved. Also I have done and doing extendeded oil drains on my Lexus. Last one had over 12K and going for the same or longer.

Group 4 and 5 provide higher ZDDP, better viscosity shear stability, oxidative stability and higher TBN then any dino oil out there.

Here: Look at this, they used Mobil 1, 10w-30 with only 4,000 miles on there Lexus ES
Mine: AMsoil 5w-30 with over 12,000 miles on my ES

* First one is him (Mobil with 4K miles), next is mine with Amsoil with 12,200 miles)


Fe 5, 11
Cr 0, 0
Ni 0. 10
Al 2 ,3
Pb 6, 10
Cu 2, 11
Sn 1, 1
Ag 0, 0
Ti 0, 0
Si 16, 17
B 125, 27
Na 6,12
Mo 44, 1
P 668, 1161
Zn 757, 1175
Ca 2991, 2643
Barium 0, 0
Mg 13, 797
TBN 4.5, 3.3

Pretty good for over 3X longer then his! . No benefit? Look at the numbers and he had to do 3 oil change to reach my one!

got_trd

92 SC300 with only 50k miles?? Thats impressive. But back to the subject, I use Mobil 1 synthetic. To me i think its worth the extra few bucks for synthetic. The additives and smoothness of the engine has me sold

mburnickas

Just be careful with some Mobil oils. There ZDDP and TBN are below some group 3 oils! Not saying it is bad, but I have see some tests (unused) with Mobil starting out at 4.5 TBN! Most goof oils are above 9 and the real good ones are above 11.5

saber

mburnickas, I once lived in Montana and at -22 degrees F below zero synthetic oils are like honey and that's probably why no synthetic oil company has ever run a TV ad showing how embarrassingly thick synthetic oil is at -20 degrees below zero or colder.

Also no synthetic oil company has ever run a TV ad showing how synthetic 5W-30 pours below zero temperatures compared to conventional 5W-30 probably because BOTH flow embarrassingly poorly !

mburnickas

Saber- too bad I do not know what “synthetic” oil you mean. Dino oil (hydrocracked) are considered synthetics when they are not true synthetics. This topic on dino vs synthetic are as boring as watching flies since you post zero date. You post this and that from some website or whatever. I can and have posted oil tests of real users of both.

I did a simple test of dino and a synthetic. I put them in the freezer and then next day tried to pour. My 15w-40 came out like a spring day and the dino I had to wait to see if it even poured out! Not rocket science.

Time to take off the blinders. Everyone is moving to longer drains and synthetics. The people that are not going since Wal-mart does not sell a good PAO or easter based oil.

I posted a simple oil test of a dino user and me a synthetic user. You can see the difference. Mine is very close in number with over 3X longer! Do you have any tests you have done????? Well?