Biggest concern with Ls500
12-31-18, 10:06 AM
#16
Racer
Interestingly enough I was most baffled by the sound levels of various W222s I was in when I was in Asia/Europe. In fact, I was baffled by how noisy they were, and because all of the W222s I took were limousines, they were not "new" cars and the main culprit that I located was that the 222s I was in had cheap aftermarket tires.
I have absolutely no idea if the video you posted had that, because they don't specify anything other than tire pressures and noise. Car and Driver has something called their "instrumented" tests in which you can download a PDF of precisely their test conditions, the tire size, the tire brand/model etc. It's much more scientific.
I have long abandoned looking at tests like the ones you posted because it leaves out too many variables which I cannot dig into. Interesting though! That's why I have resorted to testing out brand new cars on the same road, at the same time, speed, weather condition. etc. Suffice it to say, as I have stated upthread, getting rid of the RFTs in the 5LS would go a long way, I think, at reducing noise, because the main culprit of noise for the 5LS is tire noise. Vehicles like the 2019 A8 come standard with acoustic tires (tires lined with felt inside), and it's remarkable that there's literally no tire noise that can be heard within the cabin.
That said in my testing, a W222 with 20" tires/rims with RFTs was quieter than a 5LS on 19" RFTs, (and of course 20" RFTs) <--all cars in question/tires used were OEM and were brand new, although the 4LS destroys all other test vehicles.
I have absolutely no idea if the video you posted had that, because they don't specify anything other than tire pressures and noise. Car and Driver has something called their "instrumented" tests in which you can download a PDF of precisely their test conditions, the tire size, the tire brand/model etc. It's much more scientific.
I have long abandoned looking at tests like the ones you posted because it leaves out too many variables which I cannot dig into. Interesting though! That's why I have resorted to testing out brand new cars on the same road, at the same time, speed, weather condition. etc. Suffice it to say, as I have stated upthread, getting rid of the RFTs in the 5LS would go a long way, I think, at reducing noise, because the main culprit of noise for the 5LS is tire noise. Vehicles like the 2019 A8 come standard with acoustic tires (tires lined with felt inside), and it's remarkable that there's literally no tire noise that can be heard within the cabin.
That said in my testing, a W222 with 20" tires/rims with RFTs was quieter than a 5LS on 19" RFTs, (and of course 20" RFTs) <--all cars in question/tires used were OEM and were brand new, although the 4LS destroys all other test vehicles.
12-31-18, 10:40 AM
#17
What model year W222s did you experience that left you baffled? I ask because on the Mercedes forums, there have been quite a few complaints from owners who went from the pre-facelift model to the facelift model who were completely satisfied with the interior quietness of their pre-facelift model who were then extremely disappointed with their new facelifted models & have even gone to great lengths at attempting to figure out what is causing this (to the extent of hiring specialized third party acoustic engineers).
12-31-18, 04:51 PM
#18
interestingly, I was watching the following Chinese show that did a sound test between LS500, the 7 series and the S Class and found the LS to be the quietest. I guess the spec of the vehicles do matter.
here is a link to the video https://youtu.be/srvK0cpX_jI
One thing I realized about cabin noise levels is that our perceptions can be subjective. Some days I think my LS is very quiet, and on other days I find it noisy, oftentimes traveling on the same roads.
12-31-18, 06:22 PM
#19
Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed watching that Taiwanese show. Think they were pretty rigorous based on how they described their tests etc.
One thing I realized about cabin noise levels is that our perceptions can be subjective. Some days I think my LS is very quiet, and on other days I find it noisy, oftentimes traveling on the same roads.
One thing I realized about cabin noise levels is that our perceptions can be subjective. Some days I think my LS is very quiet, and on other days I find it noisy, oftentimes traveling on the same roads.
When testing things like this, using one's ear is one of the worst ways to measure noise levels, with respect. Removing the human out of the equation is absolutely key.
01-01-19, 11:45 AM
#20
Yes, and no. The testers in question did not mention if they even used an ANSI approved decimeter, and if it was measuring using A, B, C, D, or Z weighting as per IEC 61672:2003
When testing things like this, using one's ear is one of the worst ways to measure noise levels, with respect. Removing the human out of the equation is absolutely key.
When testing things like this, using one's ear is one of the worst ways to measure noise levels, with respect. Removing the human out of the equation is absolutely key.
01-01-19, 12:01 PM
#21
I agree that using the ear is subjective. I'm also curious (since I'm definitely not an expert in this area) how / whether using an ANSI approved decimeter with those specifications you listed will change the relative ranking of the 3 cars, if all we are interested in is their relative rankings and the same meter was used in all the tests?
1) They used the same decimeter in all of the testing.
Unfortunately, that's about all we can assume that's fair. It is a reasonable supposition given the ~60db that perhaps it was dbA. That said though, there is also the question of how precise they were with where that device was placed in the vehicle. For example, on the S class, if the decimeter is placed near the center of the vehicle, that will also affect the reading if it was placed elsewhere in another vehicle. The problem with decimeter weighting is that, coupled with acoustic noise cancellation, the reading from vehicle A and vehicle B will be different.
http://www.acoustic-glossary.co.uk/f...-weighting.htm
So for example, it is very much possible that vehicle a>b>c under weighting of A, but perhaps it's b>a>c under weighting of B. The problem is that the weighting prioritizes different sounds.
All this to state: the test is great in the sense that it gives us some info. If any of you have ever done testing like this, one also has to be cognizant of variables that seem common sense, such as speed of vehicle, same track, same weather etc, but one also has to be careful of ruffling of clothes while driving, and/or breathing sounds (depending on where the decimeter is).
Then, one has to do an average of runs in order to come up with half decent information. For my ANSI calibrated decimeter weighted A, I remember that at 140km/hr, I measured 66db on the S (if my memory serves me correctly). That would actually change by about 2db, which is a big deal because sound is logarithmic. Where did the 2db come from? Simple: wind noise. On run 1, wind was almost non existant, but by run 3, there was quite a bit of cross wind.
If I had just done 1 run, and then when testing the LS500, I also did one run and the wind speed was different between the two, then the numbers I calculated/provided here would not be fair given a change in external variables (in this case wind speed).
^^So all this to say: If you/I want good numbers/accurate results, do it yourself/myself
Last edited by angrypengu; 01-01-19 at 03:03 PM.
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signdetres (01-03-19)
01-03-19, 03:26 PM
#22
I just watched that segment of the show and I have to say they were pretty thorough.
Their route was a 3.6 km tunnel so different winds/elements were less of a factor. They did their test at night because there were less cars on the road. They kept their distance from other cars. They even said, for example, if a ferrari were to zoom past them they would redo the test. Tires were set to each manufacturer’s recommended tire pressure. Vehicles were all set to comfort mode. A/C on lowest setting at the coldest temperature (I wonder why). No cruise control. 80km/h.
The decibel reader was placed on the left side of the passenger headrest. Their reader is able to take the average of their 3.6 km journey. They tested each vehicle twice and took the average of that. The results:
1. LS 500 60.5 dB
2. S 450L 60.9 dB
3. 740 Li 62.3 dB
Their route was a 3.6 km tunnel so different winds/elements were less of a factor. They did their test at night because there were less cars on the road. They kept their distance from other cars. They even said, for example, if a ferrari were to zoom past them they would redo the test. Tires were set to each manufacturer’s recommended tire pressure. Vehicles were all set to comfort mode. A/C on lowest setting at the coldest temperature (I wonder why). No cruise control. 80km/h.
The decibel reader was placed on the left side of the passenger headrest. Their reader is able to take the average of their 3.6 km journey. They tested each vehicle twice and took the average of that. The results:
1. LS 500 60.5 dB
2. S 450L 60.9 dB
3. 740 Li 62.3 dB
01-03-19, 04:30 PM
#23
I just watched that segment of the show and I have to say they were pretty thorough.
Their route was a 3.6 km tunnel so different winds/elements were less of a factor. They did their test at night because there were less cars on the road. They kept their distance from other cars. They even said, for example, if a ferrari were to zoom past them they would redo the test. Tires were set to each manufacturer’s recommended tire pressure. Vehicles were all set to comfort mode. A/C on lowest setting at the coldest temperature (I wonder why). No cruise control. 80km/h.
The decibel reader was placed on the left side of the passenger headrest. Their reader is able to take the average of their 3.6 km journey. They tested each vehicle twice and took the average of that. The results:
1. LS 500 60.5 dB
2. S 450L 60.9 dB
3. 740 Li 62.3 dB
Their route was a 3.6 km tunnel so different winds/elements were less of a factor. They did their test at night because there were less cars on the road. They kept their distance from other cars. They even said, for example, if a ferrari were to zoom past them they would redo the test. Tires were set to each manufacturer’s recommended tire pressure. Vehicles were all set to comfort mode. A/C on lowest setting at the coldest temperature (I wonder why). No cruise control. 80km/h.
The decibel reader was placed on the left side of the passenger headrest. Their reader is able to take the average of their 3.6 km journey. They tested each vehicle twice and took the average of that. The results:
1. LS 500 60.5 dB
2. S 450L 60.9 dB
3. 740 Li 62.3 dB
1) In my testing, I had the HVAC off. HVAC introduces noise which is well picked up by decimeters, so to your point, unsure why they did that.
2) I always used cruise control in my testing, and in a place of 0 or close to 0 traffic.
3) I also went did my testing at 145km/hr. The faster the speed, the higher the discrepancy.
Another thing to note, and I have no idea if I'm 100% correct, but I do believe 5LS's in China are not on run flats. I remember reading that somewhere on CL before the 5LS was launched. No idea if that info is correct. All non AMG S classes are factory fitted with RFTs. The AMG ones use slime/goop + high performance non RFTs.
A tunnel also doesn't help things actually. It amplifies certain types of noise and IMHO makes the test pretty irrelevant because most of the time we are not driving through tunnels.
Every test has their pros and cons, that's for sure.
01-03-19, 09:14 PM
#24
Driver School Candidate
Thanks! To note:
1) In my testing, I had the HVAC off. HVAC introduces noise which is well picked up by decimeters, so to your point, unsure why they did that.
2) I always used cruise control in my testing, and in a place of 0 or close to 0 traffic.
3) I also went did my testing at 145km/hr. The faster the speed, the higher the discrepancy.
Another thing to note, and I have no idea if I'm 100% correct, but I do believe 5LS's in China are not on run flats. I remember reading that somewhere on CL before the 5LS was launched. No idea if that info is correct. All non AMG S classes are factory fitted with RFTs. The AMG ones use slime/goop + high performance non RFTs.
A tunnel also doesn't help things actually. It amplifies certain types of noise and IMHO makes the test pretty irrelevant because most of the time we are not driving through tunnels.
Every test has their pros and cons, that's for sure.
1) In my testing, I had the HVAC off. HVAC introduces noise which is well picked up by decimeters, so to your point, unsure why they did that.
2) I always used cruise control in my testing, and in a place of 0 or close to 0 traffic.
3) I also went did my testing at 145km/hr. The faster the speed, the higher the discrepancy.
Another thing to note, and I have no idea if I'm 100% correct, but I do believe 5LS's in China are not on run flats. I remember reading that somewhere on CL before the 5LS was launched. No idea if that info is correct. All non AMG S classes are factory fitted with RFTs. The AMG ones use slime/goop + high performance non RFTs.
A tunnel also doesn't help things actually. It amplifies certain types of noise and IMHO makes the test pretty irrelevant because most of the time we are not driving through tunnels.
Every test has their pros and cons, that's for sure.
These are the reasons they provided for their choices:
1) they kept the AC to ensure that it relevant to their target viewers, because most people keep their AC on when they drive. They don’t want to turn it up because it’s not an AC test.
2) they do not use cruise control because they said that they want to test a range of cars. Not all the cars they test will have cruise control.
3) again, this is to ensure that it’s relevant to their viewers. They are just testing at their speed limit.
But I think it’s sufficient to say, that these cars are very close to each other and any changes in variables can flip the order significantly.
01-06-19, 02:31 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
I test drove a 19 LS500 on Friday and initial thoughts were:
LOVE - advanced safety features are actually available, 360 degree camera, Apple Carplay, better Mark Levinson system compared to previous LS generations, better fitting front seats
NOT LOVE - powertrain is less refined (not to say it is bad, but compared to the bulletproof 4.6L V8 8-speed combo, nope...), louder (again in comparison with 4LS), less float-like-a-cloud ride though they did this on purpose.
LOVE - advanced safety features are actually available, 360 degree camera, Apple Carplay, better Mark Levinson system compared to previous LS generations, better fitting front seats
NOT LOVE - powertrain is less refined (not to say it is bad, but compared to the bulletproof 4.6L V8 8-speed combo, nope...), louder (again in comparison with 4LS), less float-like-a-cloud ride though they did this on purpose.
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