Hello everyone, I'm considering a new vehicle and am pretty much loyal to the Toyota/Lexus brands. I currently drive a 2007-2014.5 Camry. Front wheel drive is a minimum and AWD is preferred. I'd really like to spend in the low 30's or less. I considered a 2013 GS 350AWD and also 2013 ES 350/300h and wasn't sufficiently impressed with either versus the Camry to come out of pocket. The GS has a nice enough interior but I don't like the color schemes much. The ES seemed noticeably lower quality. I didn't find the seats in either particularly comfortable -- I actually prefer my Camry's. I checked out an LS 460 AWD and found it to be extremely comfortable and high quality. Driving it was so quiet and smooth. I'm also considering the upper end of the Avalon line (hybrid or gas-only). I've yet to sit in or drive one -- would be considering both used 2013/14's and new 2015's.

I've spent quite a bit of time reading the stickies and other relevant LS 460 threads here on CL, especially relating to considering a used LS. I have a few questions that I didn't see already:

-I understand front control arms are a big issue with the 460 and that a full replacement runs $3-$4k? Also that 2011+ don't have this issue? Does that mean I should discount a 2010 $4k versus a 2011 on that basis alone?
-I understand the 2010+ comes with iPhone USB connectivity? How good is the integration with newer iPhones (e.g., iOS 9, iphone 6 or newer)? Do the steering wheel controls, especially track skip work? Can you use Pandora via the phone? Does the 2010-2012 support A2DP (bluetooth stereo streaming) so that an iPhone can stream via the stereo without the USB cable?
-Are there good aftermarket options for 2009's to provide at least USB connectivity similar to the 2010+?
-I saw several threads about aftermarket remote starters. Are these fairly reliable? I really love remote start to avoid getting into a hot or cold car but don't want to introduce other issues
-thoughts on maintenance costs and hassles for an 09-11 LS versus a 13-15 Avalon?

Finally, any general advice or thoughts? Anything you wish you'd known prior to buying your LS?

TIA!

 

Well I would seriously consider going aftermarket for control arm repair...you'll save literally thousands.

Maintenance costs compared to a Avalon should be a bit different...the LS 460 takes 9.1 quarts of oil, the Avalon takes 6. The Avalon uses regular fuel, the LS uses super. When you change the plugs, the Avalon will take 6, the LS will take 8. The LS has two air cleaners, the Avalon one. Get the picture? Neither has a timing belt. Both are reliable.

I like the new Avalon, they look nice and the drive train is a tested and proved power plant, but it's not in the same class as the LS. The LS is going to be bigger, quieter, faster and have a wider range of power - it will probably feel better on the highway - and no one will ever ask you...what is that thing, it's beautiful? If you buy the Avalon, but that might not matter to you one bit.

 

You know, I didn't think it would matter at all to me, but the more and more I received compliments and asked, as you stated: "What Lexus is thatthat", I'd be remiss of me to say that I didn't enjoy it!
There is a comfort (for me anyway) in knowing that I drive a vehicle that isn't all over the roads, it's classy, well regarded (in most circles), and it's reliable.

 

I guess it depends who you talk to and also how you look at it. My 08 has nearly 100k miles and has no control arm issues. As for cost, yes...if you use factory parts and dealer labor, you're looking at the cost you quoted. I will never go that route and will instead, use aftermarket arms for about 500-700 dollars and either install them myself, or have them done by an independant for a couple hundred. In other words, about the cost of a set of tires.

As for the Avalon, nice car.......but not comparable to the LS. Like comparing a Ford Fusion to a Lincoln, or a Jetta to an A4.

 

In your budget, you could look for a nice CPO 10-11 LS460. Check lexus service history online to see if the control arms have been done. You'd be surprised by how many have already had the fix under warranty.

 

IMPO, I would get the CPO 2011. Supposed to the the year they got it all right.

 

I have the '14 Avalon and '13 LS460. The Avalon is good with decent options and will be cheaper in both maintenance and repairs. But, if you're looking for a nice ride and not on a budget, I'd go for the '13 and up LS460. It has better exterior looks and interior feels.

 

Thanks everyone on the input so far. I don't drive a lot of miles a year (maybe 6k max) so it's harder to justify spending a lot on a car.

I'm not looking at all for flash or status. In fact, that is major benefit IMO to the Avalon or other non-premium brand.

Non-OEM control arms are a nice alternative and a lot more palatable in terms of repair cost. That makes CPO or 2011+ a lot less of a concern.

Any info on the electronics questions?

 

I was looking into that gen awd LS and learned the '10 was a modest mid-cycle redesign. I addition to the audio / connectivity items you mentioned, it got a slightly updated front and rear bumper fascia plus a slightly updated center stack / button layout around the navi. Modest, yes ... but, I'm a big fan of the mid-cycle redesigns for all the stuff the manufacturers fix / adjust underneath the skin.

I don't recall price differences between the first-year awd in '09 and the '10. Probably wasn't more than a few $k, but you'd have to check me.

Good luck

 

I would like to find out the answers to these questions as well.

 

Personally I like the styling of the 07-09 vs the 10-12, I think they're a little more fluid, especially in the front. 2010 brought with it a lot of infotainment upgrades that really modernized the car, bluetooth streaming, nav with traffic, etc. I would look for a 2010-2012. If you can do a 2013, there are even more upgrades.

The iPhone connectivity works great, the buttons on the wheel skip tracks, etc. The 2010-2012 streams wirelessly over bluetooth. There are aftermarket options for the 2009 but it won't ever be as well integrated as it is on the 2010+

If you're looking for a car to last you a long time, these cars age really well.

 

Based on the sample of '07-'09 models I looked at while and after shopping for my car -- I'd say I looked at the service histories of around 20 cars -- I think premature wear of control arm bushings is a problem that will affect the majority of pre-'11 cars. If the car has even the slightest play in the steering or makes any suspension noises on hard braking or acceleration, I'd assume the job needs to be done and adjust my price for the car accordingly.

No independent is going to do that job for a couple hundred. Figure on $500-$750 in labor depending on where you are, along with $800 in parts for all eight arms.

Also, AWD cars have different control arms which are not nearly as easy to find aftermarket. I think this is because so many more RWD cars are affected by the issue -- production was far higher in '07 and '08 before AWD was available on the 460.

 

SW15LS -- thanks for the info on electronics. It sounds like a 2010+ is required for me based on this. A 2013+ wouldn't be totally out of the question but I hate the thought of writing a check that big. What are the advantages of jumping to 2013+ in your opinion?

dal20402 -- thanks for this info. Since I'd only consider an AWD LS, that makes the 2011+ desirable. If I consider a 2010, I'd need some combination of proof all the arms had already been done or substantial price consideration to offset.

 

You're right about the AWD issue, I failed to note that we were talking about an AWD vehicle.

As for the rest of us:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-FRONT-UPPE...xRm2Lk&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-FRONT-LOWE...XozOXQ&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-LS460-...ZThZX9&vxp=mtr

For a total of 500 dollars....

As for labor, AllDataDIY quotes 4.2 hours for both sides. My independent charges 60 per hour - or about half what the dealer does. Personally, I'll do it myself, and then have a shop do the wheel alignment afterwards.

As I've said many times before, one could also just get the bushings in a set for a couple hundred dollars and have them pressed in by a shop.

 

Is that for all eight arms? And $60 is very cheap. Most places in the Seattle area are over $100, sometimes well over.