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I am glad that new Model S owners are happy. Please keep buying or leasing them It does wonders for my TSLA shares
Personally, I am not a fan of the esthetic. I like real leather, real wood, and a more traditional binnacle. But, then I do not use most of the "features" of my iPhone either. I have it to communicate with other family members who are in the Apple club.
Being an older car enthusiast, I wish Tesla would sell their mechanical tech to licensed EV conversion companies. I'd like to see many more EV conversions on hobby cars. To get older Mustangs and Cameros into the 0~60 times of quick Tesla's means big motors and usually somewhat radical cams with poor fuel economy and over-rich burn at lower speeds, etc. I personally like the kinds of things Jonathan Ward and Icon are doing with their Derelict series. They have done a classic Merc with TSLA parts and it came out very nice.
We need these advancements, but we need alternative builds and styling explorations too. I am hoping we can build a solid high quality EV conversion industry, and get some really stunning builds rolling along the highways ...
Congratulations again, Rick! Great photos and I was especially keen on hearing your thoughts on the Raven air suspension. The LS still has the edge in ride quality and quietness but the divide is not that great. I think I notice more of a difference in noise levels whereas the Raven S rides remarkably close to the LS over the same roads and with the same Pirelli P7+ tires. I agree that the car is plenty quiet enough.
I had a similar experience taking advantage of the phone app control to keep the AC on at 72 degrees a few days ago. I had returned from Costco with some water bottles and didn't want to leave them in a hot interior at work. I knew the Cabin Overheat Protection feature would keep the interior below 105 degrees automatically but I wanted it way cooler. It was great leaving the AC on for two hours while I was in meetings and I only lost a total of 6 miles of range.
I think it is great that you're coming from prior EV experience. It also sounds like the Model S has impressed you over those earlier EVs. Admittedly, the Leaf and Bolt didn't go all-in to set themselves apart from ICE cars. I think that is a failing of many EV competitors, they're just half-hearted conversions of ICE designs.
As for @TANORWAY 's experience of 55 problems, that is shocking and I feel sorry about that. At the same time, the very early years were definitely plagued with problems and why I only considered 2015-and-newer when I was looking at used Model S. The newer ones since MCU 2 (March 2018 and newer) have been very reliable with faulty door handles and leaky moonroof fixed, as well as larger capacity eMMC to negate the memory-write concern. A friend's 2018 P100D still developed the yellowing border around the large screen 10-months after he bought it. It is cosmetic and doesn't affect functionality. Still, it sucks to see it. Tesla uses a UV box to re-cure the adhesive and that seems to resolve the yellowing. People have also used their own $10 UV light to DIY. We initially looked at the Model X but were disappointed by the build quality and ride quality (better now with the Raven X). With the Model S, the build quality has dramatically improved over earlier years. The panel gaps are still inconsistent but it's really only a topic you discuss in forums. In person, I never think of the panel gaps when I glance back at the car. The S design has aged very well and is still one of the best looking cars on the road, IMHO.
After six months I notice two intermittent rattles, one in the driver's door and one behind the dash, when going over rough bumps. I have also had the two front half-shafts replaced in December 2019 to remedy the ticking/shudder sound during hard acceleration. Unfortunately, Tesla only used the latest 'D' revision for one of the half-shafts and the ticking/shudder has re-emerged. I have an appointment on Monday and requested the latest version of parts and hoping this solves the issue for good -- reports from Tesla Motor Club forum members suggest the proper fix does solve the issue. Despite all this, I still love the car. Oh, I also needed the A-pillar repainted due to a paint defect. Tesla service has been excellent the four times I had to bring the car in and have absolutely no regrets. The OTA (over-the-air) updates are awesome and the car keeps getting better and better over time. I love the LS and I love the Model S, both for different reasons -- each car plays to their strengths.
I wish a $78K Long Range was available at the time we bought our Model S. Ours was $72K and I would gladly pay the extra $6K for almost 100 more miles of range, faster acceleration, and faster charge rate. I think you definitely made the right call between the 2019 Standard Range vs 2020 Long Range.
@Kansas , I just want to touch on the fact that although it can take over an hour to charge from 5% to 100%, almost nobody does this on a road trip because charging tapers off and slows down as you get closer to full. You save more time by Supercharging to 80%, which will easily get you to the next Supercharger or two. I am not suggesting an EV is right for everyone but there are folks that traveled coast-to-coast in early Teslas with smaller batteries and when the Supercharger network was much smaller than it is today. On our 285-mile rated Model S, I have driven 250 miles on the freeway (Sacramento to Bakersfield) before charging, and I actually exceed the EPA estimates (getting over 300 miles) when driving around town where regen comes into play -- this is during the current winter in California (not subzero temperatures, but neither is it ideal EV weather). The first two weeks of ownership I was barely getting 200 miles total, but I turned on every conceivable feature (preventing the car from sleeping) and I drove it like a new toy. Now that I've settled down and drive it like I drove the LS, it is easy for me to beat EPA ratings.
The Model S two major strengths appear to be 1) Exotic car level insane acceleration at relatively affordable price 2) Leading edge constantly updating technology (albeit mostly software). It is basically a phone on wheels. If you have multiple cars and can afford it an EV make total sense. Ideally, I would love to have both my LS600HL and the Model S because they have different strengths which complement and not necessarily compete with each other.
But let me ask about the elephant in the room. What are your plans Rick and FatherTo1 about long term ownership? Lease vs Buy? Are you comfortable owning the Model S after the 4yr/50K mile warranty given that only Tesla can service and provide the parts.? Are there any other extended warranty options?
The Model S two major strengths appear to be 1) Exotic car level insane acceleration at relatively affordable price 2) Leading edge constantly updating technology (albeit mostly software). It is basically a phone on wheels. If you have multiple cars and can afford it an EV make total sense. Ideally, I would love to have both my LS600HL and the Model S because they have different strengths which complement and not necessarily compete with each other.
But let me ask about the elephant in the room. What are your plans Rick and FatherTo1 about long term ownership? Lease vs Buy? Are you comfortable owning the Model S after the 4yr/50K mile warranty given that only Tesla can service and provide the parts.? Are there any other extended warranty options?
I plan to keep our Model S for 10 years, but that's what I said about the LS 460. If I upgrade from the Model S, it won't be from fear of being out of warranty. My LS 460 was also out of warranty with the looming air suspension failure bound to happen. The EV drivetrain (drive unit and battery) are a simpler design with less things to go wrong. Also, the motors and battery, the most important parts on our 2019 S, are covered for 8yrs/unlimited miles so I'm not worried. For Rick's 2020 S, I believe the motors and battery are covered for 8yrs/150K miles -- still plenty of mileage considering he drives 7K-8K miles a year.
Lease doesn't make sense since I drive so much. Lease is great in the earlier years and protected many folks from the price reductions at the end of 2018. Nowadays all of the options are standard on the car so I don't see prices falling much in the future. I not an expert on leases but I hear Tesla lease rates aren't very good anyways, especially on the Model 3 where you can't even buy the car at the end of the lease -- Tesla wants to keep it for its future autonomous fleet.
The first Model S owners are starting to come out of the 8yr warranty so it will be interesting to learn how their battery or drive unit issues are handled and what the cost is. So far, the topic hasn't blown up the forums yet.
Last edited by FatherTo1; Mar 12, 2020 at 06:50 PM.
I don't think the ICE is going away anytime soon. I totally agree that the EV is the best option as a commute vehicle. But people will still prefer ICE for long distance trips, SUV's and sports cars.
Our short trips and commutes will probably end up being a subscription service or Uber type service with drivers initially and eventually driverless. It'll change everything. No need for a garage if most people won't have their own car. No need for malls with tons of parking spaces if cars are a shared ride that pick up and drop off curbside.
Cost will go down as well. Less accidents means lower insurance.
That's a very intriguing thought...no garages. Seems around here the garage has turned into private storage for a generation of hoarders.
There have been some bad actors preying on cars parked outside in our neighborhood. Unfortunate and also scary when you consider that many cars are programmed to open your garage. Kind of risky to park outside your house unless you take the garage door opener with you or erase your HomeLink.
It is a much better looking car than what you had with the Lexus. The only thing that matters is that you love the car after the purchase. When we have lots of money to spend we don`t have to worry about how good or bad a car is. We just get another one. Gotta love that feeling.
Samsung just announced their solid state battery breathrough, 500 miles range and fast recharge will be possible for small cars soon enough... I just hope retrofitting ice cars to be 4wd hybrids will become a thing, and that it will cost under 10k. I still like my 10year old corolla, but if it could have an extra 200hp from hybrid powertrain somewhere in the trunk, I could keep it another 20 years like I expected !
Teslas are impressive whats even more impressive is that there is still much room for progress... In a decade or two, we might very well be looking at cars that will do the quarter mile in 8 seconds for the consumers/high end
Last edited by cochiseg; Mar 13, 2020 at 05:50 AM.
Update: I keep discovering new things that I love about my new Tesla!
I had an appointment at lunch today, and I left my office and headed for my car. As I approached, I appreciated the amazing lines of the car, the overall sleekness and long hood-line. As I got closer, the door handles popped out to great me. As I opened the door, the music came on exactly where I had left it in the morning (from the internet radio). I settled into the snug, soft seat, pulled the lever to Drive, and took off.
I looked down at the giant touch-screen and was pleasantly surprised to see that the car had automatically set up the Navigation system to provide me directions to the location of my appointment, based on my iPhone Calendar event that had automatically synced to the Tesla Calendar App. No drama, no fuss, just perfect synchronization of my calendar, iPhone, car, and Navigation system in a completely natural and incredibly useful way.
Thanks for everyone's inputs! This really has been a very respectful sharing of thoughts regarding Tesla Model S vs Lexus LS460, and I truly LOVE this forum!
So I've had a day and a half with my new 2020 Tesla Model S, and am getting to understand it better and learning to appreciate it's capabilities more and more. Here are some observations from my experience with Tesla so far:
The overall dealership experience was significantly less "luxurious" than what I've grown accustomed to at Lexus. The showroom was spartan and brightly lit (perhaps trying for more of an "Apple vibe?"). The advisors were actually very knowledgeable about their products, and were clearly Tesla "fan-boys." They were able to answer all my questions quickly and easily, and demo'd the technology with ease. I had ordered my car on-line and had made an appointment to pick it up at Noon on Tuesday. When I arrived, promptly at noon, the car was sitting outside, but looked like crap (but "ready to deliver" according to the advisor). It had apparently been washed (sort of), but had swirl marks in the paint, dirt all over the lower portion of the front, and just generally turned me WAY off. When I looked under the front of the car, I could see the plastic underbody panel was hanging loose and had a big scratch from a curb... When I pointed these things out, the advisor said, "oh yeah, I see what you're saying," and took the car back to have it "re-detailed." At that point, I pretty much had decided that I was going to be driving back to Omaha (3 hours) with no Tesla. However, the second detailer was WAY better than the first detailer, and spent an hour really cleaning the car and buffing out the light swirl marks from the first guy. They were also able to quickly replace the plastic under-body panel. In the end, the car did meet my (admittedly very high) standards, and I finalized the transaction and headed out. Overall, a pretty bad experience to start this "experiment..."
When I got back to Omaha, I gave the car an even more thorough detailing (to MY standards), and this allowed me to get a close-up view of every external and internal part of the car. There's definitely a lower-quality feel to many of the materials and fit-and-finish compared to my LS600hL. The doors aren't as heavy, everything has a bit more of a tinny feel to it, the carpet isn't as plush, the paint quality isn't nearly as good, etc.
But the Tech! WOW! I'm still on the fence as to whether giving up the luxury features I've been accustomed to in my LS600 can/will be overcome by the amazing Tesla tech, but my experience so far with the actual car has been very good.
I spent a couple of hours reading the owners manual and tinkering with the settings, and discovered several things I didn't know were even options on the Tesla.
So here's what I love about the car so far:
1. The enormous touch-screen. It has amazing resolution and really is the heart of the car. All options work instantly and are incredibly intuitive. The number of customizable settings is very extensive.
2. The white and black interior (I wasn't sure I'd like this). The ultra-white seats and black trim I find to be extremely unique, super-modern, and very comfortable. These seats have terrific side bolsters that fit my body perfectly, and seem to "hug" me as I drive. My Lexus LS seats were the best I had ever experienced, and I don't know if the Tesla seats are going to end up being my new "best seats," but I do like them a lot. The "vegan leather" is super soft, and the seats just fit me like a glove.
3. The sleek exterior design. This car feels WAY more youthful and current than my LS (which of course it is). I don't really think the exterior design is "flashy" in the way I think the new LS500 is over-the-top gaudy, and I know this design has been around since 2012, but I still find it extremely appealing.
4. The "surprise" features:
a. I was able to program my garage door opener to the car (no biggie), but then I was able to hit a setting that will automatically open my garage door when I drive up my (long) driveway when I get to 50 feet from my garage. I find this to be very cool for some reason ;-)
b. I received a text while driving, and a chime sounded and the car asked me if I wanted to hear the text. When the car read me the text, it gave me the option to respond verbally. That's very useful to me, as I get a huge number of texts all day long, and admit to being very distracted by them when driving.
c. The autopilot works amazingly well! The 8-camera system captures everything around me, and there's a visualization feature on the main dash that shows all of the cars around me that the Tesla sees. The car stays perfectly centered in the lane and goes around curves extremely well with no steering input from me.
d. The built in internet connection allows me to play virtually any song/album I can think of by just asking for it. At no charge...
e. The wicked acceleration. Everyone already knows this, but I had never personally experienced the g-forces that happen when launching from 0-60 in the mid-3-second range. Holy Sheeeet!!! I don't think I'll do this very often, but it really does take my breath away!
f. The composed ride. I've left the car in "Comfort Mode" like I always did in my LS600, and have found the suspension to be actually really smooth (probably not quite as disconnected from the road as my LS), but extremely "taut." There's a series of 3 big speed bumps to get off the Air Force base that I work at, and my LS would always take these just fine, but would be a bit "bouncy" if I went too fast. The Tesla went over them WAY better. And the car definitely corners better (the weight is so evenly distributed and the center of gravity is so low due to the battery weight). The new Raven Air Ride Suspension in the Tesla is one of the reasons I made the switch, and I have not been disappointed.
g. The overall quietness. The Tesla is admittedly not as quiet as my Lexus at highway speed, with a bit more tire noise, wind noise, etc. But I have found it to be "quiet enough" to satisfy me, and in some instances seems a bit quieter than my LS. It is probably quieter than 95% of the cars being made today, which is good enough.
h. The way the car greets me when I walk up to it. Lights turn on inside the car, the handles pop out invitingly, the music automatically restarts where it left off, and there's no "Start button" to push. It's just ready to go.
i. The iPhone Tesla App. Simply amazing, and quite useful. I can open my car, honk the horn, lock the car, turn on the climate system, check the charge status, etc. from my smart phone. Today at lunch I picked up some things at the grocery store and then went back to my office. A while later, someone came in and commented on how warm it had gotten outside. I thought "oh no! my refrigerated stuff is going to be too warm." So I pulled out my phone and sure enough, the cockpit of my car was sitting at 86 degrees! I hit a button and activated my climate system and set it to 70 degrees. When I checked 3 minutes later, it had gotten the car cooled to 70. I left it that way for roughly 2 hours while I finished up my work. In that time, I used up approximately 4 miles of range (I went from 305 miles to 301 miles of range). And my stuff didn't get too hot!
So overall, I can definitely "Get" how owning a Tesla can be so addictive, and why people are such fans. It won't take long before all of the features become second nature to me, and any car that doesn't have the same features will seem hopelessly dated.
I will likely only put 7-8k miles per year on this car, and will keep it fully charged in my garage (220v connection for both me and my wife). I don't know that I would ever take it on a trip, but can see how that would not be so tough, with 373 miles of range and the ability to recharge quickly (and for free) at the many Tesla Super-Chargers along the interstate in all directions.
This car won't be for everybody, but for my specific use case, it hits all the high marks and I think it's a keeper!
Here are a few photos from tonight (not the best, but I do like the sunset). I'll get some better photos when I have time and the light is right.
If anyone has any specific questions for me, please shoot them my way. And thanks for keeping this discussion so respectful!
I tend to baby my cars so the extreme, and I will likely never drive my Model S in snow (or even rain), and I will keep a coat of wax on everything and will hand-wash frequently, so this car will likely last a LONG time if I continue to enjoy it. I only put around 7-8k miles per year on my LS600hL, and will probably be about the same for my Model S.
Rick, I edited your post, but only to add some breaks after each point. I wanted to read it all, but one huge paragraph was just too tough!
Well, after much reflection, I've decided to follow in the footsteps of Father-to-1 and make the switch from my LS600hL to a new 2020 Tesla Model S Long Range model. I know I've been a total LS600hL "fan-boy" on this forum for the past 5 years or so, and I still am sold on the fact that the LS600hLs represent the absolute pinnacle of Lexus engineering (on the Luxury side), but I am now ready to embrace the future, and I think for me the Tesla Model S will be a good fit.
Hi Rick,
Congrats on your Tesla S! It looks gorgeous. The tech features put it far ahead of Lexus. I especially like that Teslas can update the system software remotely similar to a smartphone. It's about time all car companies offered this feature. I also like the seamless integration between your smartphone and the Tesla calendars. Hope you are enjoying these simple pleasures, especially in these trying times!
Hi Rick,
Congrats on your Tesla S! It looks gorgeous. The tech features put it far ahead of Lexus. I especially like that Teslas can update the system software remotely similar to a smartphone. It's about time all car companies offered this feature. I also like the seamless integration between your smartphone and the Tesla calendars. Hope you are enjoying these simple pleasures, especially in these trying times!
Thanks Comotiger! There are definitely pluses and minuses with the Tesla compared to my LS600hL. It will be interesting to see if the sacrifices in some of the luxury areas I've been accustomed to with Lexus will be overcome by the Tesla technology advantage and constant over-the-air updates. I'm definitely a car guy, and an early adopter of technology, so I've had my eye on Tesla for quite a while. I look at this to a degree as an experiment, and am lucky enough to be able to afford such a high-end car (and could afford to swap back to a newer Lexus LS if my experiment proves that Tesla is not right for me).
I will say the seamless delivery of power in my Tesla is pretty addictive. I'm not a heavy-footed driver in general, but it just feels great having so much power always at my disposal, and so quiet and drama-free. I drove my Ram 1500 to work yesterday, and was much more aware of just how noisy the engine was under acceleration and how sluggish the truck felt compared to the Tesla.
I was fortunate enough to find a terrific buyer for my LS600hL from amongst our Club Lexus enthusiasts, and I'm glad that my old car will be in such good hands (and I'll be able to follow how it's doing via the forum). There's no doubt my 2010 LS600hL has many more great years ahead, and I'll always love that unique Peridot Mica color!
My wife and I made the trek back to Kansas City today to pick up Tesla #2... this time a Model 3 for my wife. We took my Model S on this trip, and I wanted to give an update on how things are going so far with my new Model S Tesla.
The trip was roughly 200 miles each way, virtually all on Interstate 29 (70 mph speed limit). There was a strong southerly wind, so we were fighting it all the way down. Wind noise in the Tesla was definitely a bit more than I'm accustomed to in the LS600hL, but not unbearable by any means. The stereo in the Tesla is okay, no where near as powerful as the ML in the LS600hL, but with oodles of options for internet radio stations. I ended up just telling my car to "Play some Yacht Rock Music" and was perfectly content to listen to 70s easy-listening songs all the way down and back (I think I'm dating myself ;-)
Anyway, the range of my Tesla is rated at 373, but I normally only charge to the 90 percent level to preserve battery life. I started the trip showing a range of 323. I easily made it the 200 miles to KC, even fighting a strong head-wind and with the cruise set to 78 the whole way. I think I had around 75 miles left when I arrived at the Tesla dealership.
They were kind enough to let me plug into their Supercharger setup while my wife was consummating the purchase of her Model 3, so the car was fully recharged to 350+ miles of range an hour later. So in this case, absolutely no range anxiety for me, and zero cost to drive the 400 mile round trip (which was kind of nice).
In general, I found the Auto-Pilot function of the Model S to be everything it's touted to be. I set the cruise at 78, turned on Auto-Steer, and sat back and relaxed the whole way. I had to keep my hand lightly on the wheel so the car knew I hadn't drifted off to sleep, but I totally let the car steer for me the whole way. It slowed down a little bit when approaching a sharp curve (just as I would have done if I were piloting it), and it never failed to see the interstate markings.
I found that by not having to be constantly making micro-adjustments to the steering wheel to keep me centered in the lane, I was WAY less fatigued by the trip than normal (even with my LS600hL). The entire 400 mile trip was extremely restful and I arrived back and home with zero road fatigue.
This is similar to how well the LS600hL trips have gone, but was restful for different reasons. In the LS600hL, the road miles get eaten up easily due to the isolation from the road, the overall serenity of the cabin, and the hushed interior. In the Tesla, the road miles get eaten up due to the incredible Auto-pilot, the very quiet operation (though not as quiet as the LS), and the amazing music options from the included internet radio setup.
My wife similarly enjoyed her ride back to Omaha in her new Model 3, and our return trip featured a strong wind at our backs that used way less juice from our batteries. I had 140 miles of range left when I arrived back home, and my wife had around 60 (her Model S is rated at 325 miles of range).
Here's a photo of our two new "toys" from when we got back, tucked safely away in the garage...
So far, I'm still very happy with my decision to make the leap to Tesla!
That 390 mile maximum range you mentioned is during warm weather. Range is reduced in Winter and sharply reduced in really cold weather - up to 40% less range. Practical maximum range in warm weather is closer to 300 miles.
I may sound negative about Tesla but I'm trying to get my wife to consider the upcoming Tesla Model Y to replace her 2012 Prius v.
Model Y has a heat pump, so it should fare much better in the cold weather and not lose nearly as much range.
Hi Rick, Great shot of your Teslas! I enjoyed reading about your ride to KC and back! I am not a big fan of the huge center display in the Teslas - the vertical edges just does not flow with the smooth horizontal lines on a dashboard. But it looks like more cars are moving in that direction. The 2020 S-class will have a giant portrait-style display, and it didn't look very attractive...
Are you going to give your cars names starting with R and C?
Well, today was the day I waved goodbye to my 2010 LS600hL. It's on its way to its new owner, and hopefully will arrive safely later tomorrow. I do think the enclosed transport is the way to go, and I'm pretty sure the car will not suffer any damage in the transport process. The new owner is a regular on this forum, and I won't steal his thunder if he wants to "introduce" his new LS600hL to the group himself.
Here's a photo I took of the "old and new" cars...
Just experienced yet another reason why owning a Tesla Model S has advantages... When I got out of my car today at home, a message popped up on the huge tablet screen saying "Tesla Update 2020.12.5 Ready to Install." I hit a button to start the update, and 25 minutes later, it was done.
What's so cool about that? Well, as some of you may know, all new Tesla's come which the ability to store Dashcam recordings to a USB drive in the console. The car also has a "Sentry Mode" that stores video any time anyone approaches the car while it's parked (for any reason). Several times over the past 2 weeks, when I've gotten back into my car after it's been parked somewhere, I've had a message on my touchscreen saying "Sentry Incident Recorded," meaning that someone had come up to my car. This was super-cool, but up until today, when I got those messages, I had to remove the USB thumb drive and pop it into my laptop to see what had triggered the Sentry Event.
So about a month ago, a Tesla Owner sent Elon Musk a note saying he LOVED Sentry Mode, but wouldn't it be cool if we could play back the videos from the touch-screen directly? Elon thought this make sense, and told his staff to make it happen.
So now, a month later, my Tesla just received the updated software to bring this functionality to life. I haven't tried it out just yet (haven't had a Sentry Event yet), but those who have already received the update are raving about how easy it is to you. So now, when I get back in my car and the screen tells me it has recorded a Sentry Event, I can hit a button to see exactly what triggered the event (from someone simply walking by to an idiot keying the side of my car out of "Tesla Envy").
I think this sort of quick functionality updates illustrates the future of autos, with over-the-air updates actually improving the car without costing the owner a dime. Hope that Lexus catches up with this concept soon, as I would dearly love to have the luxury quality and fit-and-finish of a Lexus LS along with the modern electric drivetrain, huge touchscreen, and constant free upgrades. That would be the best of both worlds, and I can't wait for Lexus to catch on to this trend!
