The book time is more, but from a practical standpoint there are workarounds that are cheaper, whereas the UZ is what it is.

 

No there aren't, the 460 needs to be in the air to get to the starter and you need to remove a lot of very likely corroded exhaust shields and most damningly the right hand exhaust manifold and risk a bolt breaking off in the head. You now need a lift, and possibility a welder and extractors if god forbid you break a bolt off. I'll link the process for a 2wd 460 and it just so you know involves removal of the manifold, exhaust pipe, right side airbox, alternator, and the steering system at the outer tie rod, and sway link to gain enough space to move the manifold out. If you have an AWD 460 then it calls for 14.2 hours and an engine removal so if that's a thing it's very likely that's the end of a pre 13 car. I'm not sure if that one can be cheated due to front axle, according to the diagram, preventing manifold tilt and removal.



The 430 can be done on be ground with a basic set of tools from wallmart in your garage. And the starter from denso is half the cost. The job actually only takes two hours if you have ever done it even once since the book calls for the needless separation of the intakes and TB instead of removing them as a unit.

There is no comparison between the two as to what is designed better.

430 official time is 5 hours $80 starter from denso

460 RWD is 3.8 hours with $173 starter from denso, you break one bolt or run into any issues and the real life time will jump from 6 hours to likely a day and a half and the cost/tacked on shop fee will reflect this if not just a plain call saying you are being charged 7-10 hours.

460 RWD is 14.2 hours with $484 start from Lexus as no one makes it aftermarket and denso charges the same price.

The 460s both require a lift and the exhaust flanges/bolts will likely break at the manifold to pipe and require replacement as well.

https://imgur.com/a/sJtYrX3

Here is a gallery of pictures backing my point, the final picture is that of an N62 BMW V8 I have sitting to swap into a 2005 745li and note where the starter is located. That is the same setup the LS460 uses with it being cooked by the manifold and trapped under it. The placement of the starter in the 3uz-fe is totally superior. If you have an AWD 460 the book times are the same as the 600H since the engines are the same physical size and packaging. Internal displacement doesn't at all correlate to exterior size and weight, that's why a US 7.0L V8 is smaller in every single dimension and weight than the 3uz-fe yet alone a 1ur/3ur-fe, it's common myth still espoused that a "large", really actually a small displacement engine in the V8 world is any larger externally than its platform-mates

 

Why do I care if it has to go onto a lift? All shops have lifts...

My mechanic does them through the wheel well without removing all the parts you mention.

As for a starter replacement being “likely the end of a pre 2013 car” where are the cars being totaled on here by starter replacements?

 

2009 AWD, look up the cost of repair of the starter and value of the car.

You are dodging my point since it doesn't agree with what you are pushing. By your logic a 430 only takes an hour and a half since I can do more effectively by skipping steps and employing tricks so that argument goes both ways not just for the 460s benefit. Reason a lift matter is if an Indy has a flat bay they much rather but something there than tie up a lift so that results in the lift required car having possibly more interesting scheduling and or possibly take longer to get done. Also eliminates any chance of you doing it yourself.

Have you had your starter replaced and do you know for sure he has done one on a 460? Or is the claim based on what he does for other vehicles that are similar?

Its an inferior design.

 

I have not had my starter replaced, but he was a Lexus master tech for 16 years and has owned his own Lexus specialist shop for 14 years. He has absolutely replaced starters on LS460s.

A 2009 LS460 is still a 10k+ valued car. Even if it cost $2,500 to replace the starter that’s not totaling the car.

And again, this is the largest Lexus forum on the internet, where are all the people freaking out over their cars being totaled by starter replacements?

To be clear, I don’t think the starter in the 1UZ is that big a deal. It’s just an illustration that all generations have their quirky things.

 

Wow. Fascinating stuff. See the bold. Why does the bottom 460 take longer?

 

And the guy who trained me is also a former Lexus master tech and recipient of the "elite of Lexus" award and he agrees with me that a 460 is quite complex and a more German design and you will encounter far more "annoyances" like you are seeing in this thread beyond what is needed for the features it provides. However that's just something to be lived with as vs the Germans it's still great but no longer is the flagship Lexus the most reliable car they offer or one of the easier ones to work on.

 

Out of curiosity I checked the LS500 and it's way easier to do an O2 sensor since the turbos manifold is very simple to get to from up top for the upstream and down low for the downstream.

Starter though is 15.9 for RWD and 17 for AWD and requires engine removal since the engine mount blocks it according to the diagrams I have. Hopefully that's not accurate and there is something more sane to fix it.

 

I think thats totally accurate, and my mechanic agrees with that too.. The 460 no doubt has more potential for issues than the 430 or 400. Its also a good bit more sophisticated, its a tradeoff. The LS has never been the easiest Lexus or cheapest Lexus to work on though. I've had every generation of it except the first one.

He mistyped, the bottom one he meant to say AWD. Its much more difficult on the AWD car because of the different exhaust design and the additional clearance issues caused by the AWD components.

I think what we're seeing here is in general to get the least expensive LS460 to work on you should look for a RWD car vs an AWD car.

 

Interesting stuff. Do you know if the UR engines in the GX and 4Runner as difficult to replace for the starter and O2 sensors?

 

Based on the evidence, it appears the UZ starter was placed there to be in superior location and in addition, is in a more serviceable area.

 

I am also seeing Toyota cut corners on service design in an effort to make manufacturing easier...Uncharacteristic of Toyota.

 

Can't tell you, never had to do that job but the only issue I can see in that case is not being able to get enough leverage on a 02 sensor socket to get it to move. Won't require a torch like a lot Ford/GM products do but still I'm not sure if there will be room even then.

Send me a volunteer 600h? I'll answer any questions then lol

 

Not really. Each location has its issues, and overall the cost for a mechanic who knows these cars to do the job is similar.

I don't think thats what it is, I think its more an issue with adapting the LS460 to have AWD after it was designed. Remember the car came out as a 2007 and then in 2009 it was offered in AWD. The AWD really adds to the difficulty of doing this stuff.

For instance online estimates put the cost of doing the starter on my RWD LS460 at $834, an AWD LS460 goes up to a whopping $2,214. A 1UZ 400 is $924

That forward bank 02 sensor on a RWD comes to $1,625 on the AWD it goes to $2,866.

 

Just by looking at the procedure for the LS 460 starter replacement I would rather do one on the 400 or 430. I see ppl on the forum complain about all sorts of repairs in the 400, 430 and 460 forum but when I get in there I always wonder what all the complaining was about. Note that I'm talking about repairs that have clear DIY instructions and have been done over and over again. Not ones like the OP was complaining about. I'm talking about TB, starters, valve covers, control arms, radiators, motor mounts, etc... I don't mean to minimize what ppl are going through and some are a bit more difficult than others but come on. The design is the design which is not going to change so do your research before buying and if something out of the norm comes up fix it or pay someone to fix it. I stay with Lexus because with the help of these forums and a copy of the FSM on my computer I feel confident enough to tackle most repairs that come up. I'm 2 years and 50k miles into the 460 and while I've done U/L control arms and replaced a heater (PO put Stop leak in the system) nothing has broken. It's a pretty solid car at 13 years and 130k miles. We even have a working solution to the brake actuator problem if ppl feel so inclined.