2013 Avalon vs 2005 LS 430 vs 2010 LS 460 AWD
11-26-18, 01:33 PM
#62
Pole Position
Thread Starter
11-27-18, 03:40 AM
#63
Instructor
hard to give advice, very different vehicles and you have contradictions in what you desire
you can't buy 8 and 12 year old models without an expectation of high repair costs and high replacement parts. lexus parts are not cheap.
you mentioned the ls430, i owned one for 3 years and it was a 2002 with 125k, was not taken care of from original owner at it had issues,
they will go 500k with valve cover gaskets replaced, plugs, brakes, rotors, starter, a/c issue with oscillating vent, alternators. water pumps, timing belts etc. none cheap to fix or replace even with indy garage.
the 2010 ls460 is more expensive than what i mentioned in the above 430 info
then you mention gas mileage, if your looking to pinch the dollars , want comfort and costs are an issue the avalon is the logical choice
and to add 2 cents the five year old avalons are not that comfortable and heard the ride quality was sub par compare to past generations of the car,
so i would drive it 3 times and make sure you can live with it.
you can't buy 8 and 12 year old models without an expectation of high repair costs and high replacement parts. lexus parts are not cheap.
you mentioned the ls430, i owned one for 3 years and it was a 2002 with 125k, was not taken care of from original owner at it had issues,
they will go 500k with valve cover gaskets replaced, plugs, brakes, rotors, starter, a/c issue with oscillating vent, alternators. water pumps, timing belts etc. none cheap to fix or replace even with indy garage.
the 2010 ls460 is more expensive than what i mentioned in the above 430 info
then you mention gas mileage, if your looking to pinch the dollars , want comfort and costs are an issue the avalon is the logical choice
and to add 2 cents the five year old avalons are not that comfortable and heard the ride quality was sub par compare to past generations of the car,
so i would drive it 3 times and make sure you can live with it.
01-25-19, 05:16 PM
#64
Pole Position
having owned both 430 2005 and now a 460 2011, for mr atleast the 460 has been more reliable. I am pushing 124k on the 460 and drives like a brand new car. The 430 was also very good but I had to change one wheel bearing and the suspension was starting to go.
My vote is on the 460- yes there are few issues but I didn't have any and the 460 drives very good, I want to say better then the stock 430. I owned an ISF as well, and it was a fun car but terrible for family. I could barely fit 2 car seats in there plus the suspension was too stiff. The 460 is a hit with kids / wife. They prefer it over the Lx570 as well, which I just bought brand new.
My vote is on the 460- yes there are few issues but I didn't have any and the 460 drives very good, I want to say better then the stock 430. I owned an ISF as well, and it was a fun car but terrible for family. I could barely fit 2 car seats in there plus the suspension was too stiff. The 460 is a hit with kids / wife. They prefer it over the Lx570 as well, which I just bought brand new.
I know there have been comparisons between these cars. I have spent the last week reading about the 2013+ Avalon and the differences between the 3rd gen and 4th gen LS. But I honestly can not make up my mind! I know some will give me crap and say every person is different and driving the cars will help me chose. That's the thing. I have test drove the Avalon, and I'm test driving the 4th gen LS 460 tonight. I haven't had the opportunity to test drive the 3rd gen LS 430 though. I like each car for different reasons and don't know which one to pick!!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
The following users liked this post:
leisinjp (06-18-19)
01-26-19, 03:39 AM
#65
Instructor
posted this in wrong area previously
I will chime in, have some experience have owned a ls430, one of my employees has a 12 avalon xle, and i just bought a ls460
some things to think about
for the value and choice for a budget minded consumer is the avalon. any garage can work on it, parts are less expensive than the other two.
from reading the post you seem to be $$ focused and if you are the other two with major repairs like others said can be a lot of money.
bang for the buck with a great casual ride and average interior : Avalon
Oppulence, ride quality, highway cruiser, safety
Choice: LS460
Technology
choice:460
interior
Choice: 460
powertrain:
choice 430, almost as fast as 460 with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that makes the car better off line and faster in feel. ls460 0-60 times in ls a half second quicker but you have to get into the throttle much more.
Economy:
Choice: avalon i was in the avalon as a passenger last week he averages 26 mpg combined and he is a very easy throttle driver as fyi
my ls430 with 75,000 miles put on car 21.5 mpg
ls460 first 800 miles put on car 22.8 mpg
Seat comfort:
Choice: ls460
2nd avalon and ls430 second, unless u can find a pristine 430 most of the seat cushions and abuse you probably would be as comfortable in the avalon with a newer model year
Interior layout and look and feel
huge choice: ls460
the ls430 dates and gaudy with all the wood the way it was. its a representation of the times back in 2001-06 but looks like a different era interior
avalon: in my employees care ridiculous with the center dash colors , look and feel and plastics below average at best in execution
my last thought:
seems like your conflicted about the car that's right for you.
i am not one to have made the best decisions over the years , but have learned from the bad ones and grown from the bad ones
Wait , find the right car, and the right car for you that you feel good about thats the one to buy
doesn't matter what we all think.
I will chime in, have some experience have owned a ls430, one of my employees has a 12 avalon xle, and i just bought a ls460
some things to think about
for the value and choice for a budget minded consumer is the avalon. any garage can work on it, parts are less expensive than the other two.
from reading the post you seem to be $$ focused and if you are the other two with major repairs like others said can be a lot of money.
bang for the buck with a great casual ride and average interior : Avalon
Oppulence, ride quality, highway cruiser, safety
Choice: LS460
Technology
choice:460
interior
Choice: 460
powertrain:
choice 430, almost as fast as 460 with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that makes the car better off line and faster in feel. ls460 0-60 times in ls a half second quicker but you have to get into the throttle much more.
Economy:
Choice: avalon i was in the avalon as a passenger last week he averages 26 mpg combined and he is a very easy throttle driver as fyi
my ls430 with 75,000 miles put on car 21.5 mpg
ls460 first 800 miles put on car 22.8 mpg
Seat comfort:
Choice: ls460
2nd avalon and ls430 second, unless u can find a pristine 430 most of the seat cushions and abuse you probably would be as comfortable in the avalon with a newer model year
Interior layout and look and feel
huge choice: ls460
the ls430 dates and gaudy with all the wood the way it was. its a representation of the times back in 2001-06 but looks like a different era interior
avalon: in my employees care ridiculous with the center dash colors , look and feel and plastics below average at best in execution
my last thought:
seems like your conflicted about the car that's right for you.
i am not one to have made the best decisions over the years , but have learned from the bad ones and grown from the bad ones
Wait , find the right car, and the right car for you that you feel good about thats the one to buy
doesn't matter what we all think.
The following users liked this post:
leisinjp (06-18-19)
The following users liked this post:
leisinjp (06-18-19)
06-18-19, 07:33 AM
#67
Pole Position
Thread Starter
having owned both 430 2005 and now a 460 2011, for mr atleast the 460 has been more reliable. I am pushing 124k on the 460 and drives like a brand new car. The 430 was also very good but I had to change one wheel bearing and the suspension was starting to go.
My vote is on the 460- yes there are few issues but I didn't have any and the 460 drives very good, I want to say better then the stock 430. I owned an ISF as well, and it was a fun car but terrible for family. I could barely fit 2 car seats in there plus the suspension was too stiff. The 460 is a hit with kids / wife. They prefer it over the Lx570 as well, which I just bought brand new.
My vote is on the 460- yes there are few issues but I didn't have any and the 460 drives very good, I want to say better then the stock 430. I owned an ISF as well, and it was a fun car but terrible for family. I could barely fit 2 car seats in there plus the suspension was too stiff. The 460 is a hit with kids / wife. They prefer it over the Lx570 as well, which I just bought brand new.
posted this in wrong area previously
I will chime in, have some experience have owned a ls430, one of my employees has a 12 avalon xle, and i just bought a ls460
some things to think about
for the value and choice for a budget minded consumer is the avalon. any garage can work on it, parts are less expensive than the other two.
from reading the post you seem to be $$ focused and if you are the other two with major repairs like others said can be a lot of money.
bang for the buck with a great casual ride and average interior : Avalon
Oppulence, ride quality, highway cruiser, safety
Choice: LS460
Technology
choice:460
interior
Choice: 460
powertrain:
choice 430, almost as fast as 460 with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that makes the car better off line and faster in feel. ls460 0-60 times in ls a half second quicker but you have to get into the throttle much more.
Economy:
Choice: avalon i was in the avalon as a passenger last week he averages 26 mpg combined and he is a very easy throttle driver as fyi
my ls430 with 75,000 miles put on car 21.5 mpg
ls460 first 800 miles put on car 22.8 mpg
Seat comfort:
Choice: ls460
2nd avalon and ls430 second, unless u can find a pristine 430 most of the seat cushions and abuse you probably would be as comfortable in the avalon with a newer model year
Interior layout and look and feel
huge choice: ls460
the ls430 dates and gaudy with all the wood the way it was. its a representation of the times back in 2001-06 but looks like a different era interior
avalon: in my employees care ridiculous with the center dash colors , look and feel and plastics below average at best in execution
my last thought:
seems like your conflicted about the car that's right for you.
i am not one to have made the best decisions over the years , but have learned from the bad ones and grown from the bad ones
Wait , find the right car, and the right car for you that you feel good about thats the one to buy
doesn't matter what we all think.
I will chime in, have some experience have owned a ls430, one of my employees has a 12 avalon xle, and i just bought a ls460
some things to think about
for the value and choice for a budget minded consumer is the avalon. any garage can work on it, parts are less expensive than the other two.
from reading the post you seem to be $$ focused and if you are the other two with major repairs like others said can be a lot of money.
bang for the buck with a great casual ride and average interior : Avalon
Oppulence, ride quality, highway cruiser, safety
Choice: LS460
Technology
choice:460
interior
Choice: 460
powertrain:
choice 430, almost as fast as 460 with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that makes the car better off line and faster in feel. ls460 0-60 times in ls a half second quicker but you have to get into the throttle much more.
Economy:
Choice: avalon i was in the avalon as a passenger last week he averages 26 mpg combined and he is a very easy throttle driver as fyi
my ls430 with 75,000 miles put on car 21.5 mpg
ls460 first 800 miles put on car 22.8 mpg
Seat comfort:
Choice: ls460
2nd avalon and ls430 second, unless u can find a pristine 430 most of the seat cushions and abuse you probably would be as comfortable in the avalon with a newer model year
Interior layout and look and feel
huge choice: ls460
the ls430 dates and gaudy with all the wood the way it was. its a representation of the times back in 2001-06 but looks like a different era interior
avalon: in my employees care ridiculous with the center dash colors , look and feel and plastics below average at best in execution
my last thought:
seems like your conflicted about the car that's right for you.
i am not one to have made the best decisions over the years , but have learned from the bad ones and grown from the bad ones
Wait , find the right car, and the right car for you that you feel good about thats the one to buy
doesn't matter what we all think.
It was in unbelievable condition with only 70,000 miles on it. But the suspension was terrible and neither Lexus dealership I took it to could figure out what it was. They didn't really say the shocks were bad but said I could replace them which is an expensive repair. After a couple months of driving a car that I expected to be like a pillow on the highway I decided to sell it.
I did test drive a piece of junk 04. Had 280k on it. Fender was hanging off and so on. By far the worst taken care of car I have been in. And yet the suspension was perfect. It drove the way I expected mine to. That honestly pissed me off so much I put mine up for sale the next day!
I have yet to test drive a 2010-2013 460 but I did drive my buddies 2014 LS460. It was amazing! The seats are great and it is a little firmer and more stiff than the 430. But nothing to gripe about. I actually liked it more than the 430.
In the long run I might buy a newer 460 but for now I have a 2014 GS350 AWD. Either I'm the most picky SOB in the world or I'm just buying cars that don't fit me. The seat is very hard and uncomfortable to me. And my left knee rubs on the door which gets old. If I could do it all over again...I would buy a Toyota Camry for a couple years and save up for a newer LS460 that has been taken care of. Lexus is reliable but it still cost a pretty penny when something needs fixed.
06-19-19, 06:11 AM
#69
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Absolutely! I was so frustrated. How can a car that is so neglected ride so well while a car that has been taken care of have a problem that no one can figure out. It drove me crazy. I thought about buying it from him as he wanted $2k. But the body looked like it had been through hell and back.
06-19-19, 06:12 AM
#70
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I've been looking at the ES. I think the body is pretty lame looking except for the new model. But it does ride very nice. I drove one the other day and it was much smoother and better on the highway than my GS. I guess Lexus is trying to make the GS their "sport" sedan so the suspension is stiffer than the ES.
06-19-19, 06:57 AM
#71
Pole Position
Thread Starter
But just to clear the air. I posted on the 3rd gen forum and this 4th gen forum.
If I had to do it over again...I would buy the 4th gen LS460 preferably the 2013+. After driving a 2005 and a 2015 there is absolutely no comparison. I've had the whole cost to repair the car debate and in the 4 months I owned my LS430 I paid $900 for a rear wheel bearing and added cost was because the bolt had to be drilled out as it was seized. I learned my lesson on older cars. No matter how well they are taken care of, time does damage to everything. Even the famous gen 3 LS haha.
My dad who is 65 loved it though. He isn't into technology at all so it was perfect. Me being 26, ehhh. The new tech is a pretty big deal! And yes, don't get started. My wife made fun of me everyday I owned the LS430. Grandpa this, grandpa that.
But I like what I like.
If I had to do it over again...I would buy the 4th gen LS460 preferably the 2013+. After driving a 2005 and a 2015 there is absolutely no comparison. I've had the whole cost to repair the car debate and in the 4 months I owned my LS430 I paid $900 for a rear wheel bearing and added cost was because the bolt had to be drilled out as it was seized. I learned my lesson on older cars. No matter how well they are taken care of, time does damage to everything. Even the famous gen 3 LS haha.
My dad who is 65 loved it though. He isn't into technology at all so it was perfect. Me being 26, ehhh. The new tech is a pretty big deal! And yes, don't get started. My wife made fun of me everyday I owned the LS430. Grandpa this, grandpa that.
But I like what I like.
Last edited by leisinjp; 06-19-19 at 12:23 PM.
06-21-19, 01:03 PM
#72
Yup. I'm also surprized at the lack of discussion of the ES350 in your original posts (given that it's basically a "niceified" Avalon), especially the 2019 model. I went from a 2008 IS250 (great car - bequeathed it to my son who's still driving it), to a 2007 LS460, to a 2014 LS460, but If I had to do it again, I'd probably go with the "Toyota" ES350!
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