2013 Avalon vs 2005 LS 430 vs 2010 LS 460 AWD
11-12-18, 12:07 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
2013 Avalon vs 2005 LS 430 vs 2010 LS 460 AWD
I know there have been comparisons between these cars. I have spent the last week reading about the 2013+ Avalon and the differences between the 3rd gen and 4th gen LS. But I honestly can not make up my mind! I know some will give me crap and say every person is different and driving the cars will help me chose. That's the thing. I have test drove the Avalon, and I'm test driving the 4th gen LS 460 tonight. I haven't had the opportunity to test drive the 3rd gen LS 430 though. I like each car for different reasons and don't know which one to pick!!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
Last edited by leisinjp; 11-12-18 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Typo
11-12-18, 12:26 PM
#2
Most 460s do not have air suspension, so just find one without it if that's your preference.
If you're near Columbus, send me a PM and we'll set a meeting so you can see what a 64,000 mile LS 430 feels like. It is dramatically different than an ISF!
It really sounds like an Avalon would best suit your needs.
More generally, when in such a situation, I just keep my eyes open and buy the highest quality car among a pre-selected group that my budget permits.
If you're near Columbus, send me a PM and we'll set a meeting so you can see what a 64,000 mile LS 430 feels like. It is dramatically different than an ISF!
It really sounds like an Avalon would best suit your needs.
More generally, when in such a situation, I just keep my eyes open and buy the highest quality car among a pre-selected group that my budget permits.
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leisinjp (11-12-18)
11-12-18, 12:41 PM
#3
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Most 460s do not have air suspension, so just find one without it if that's your preference.
If you're near Columbus, send me a PM and we'll set a meeting so you can see what a 64,000 mile LS 430 feels like. It is dramatically different than an ISF!
It really sounds like an Avalon would best suit your needs.
More generally, when in such a situation, I just keep my eyes open and buy the highest quality car among a pre-selected group that my budget permits.
If you're near Columbus, send me a PM and we'll set a meeting so you can see what a 64,000 mile LS 430 feels like. It is dramatically different than an ISF!
It really sounds like an Avalon would best suit your needs.
More generally, when in such a situation, I just keep my eyes open and buy the highest quality car among a pre-selected group that my budget permits.
Right now what is available and the best deal is a 2010 LS 460 with what I'm assuming is the air suspension as the center console has the buttons for ride adjustment and height high, sport and comf. It has 130,000 miles and it is $12,500. New tires, brakes, and the two front struts have been replaced. It looks amazing and for $12,500 with only 130k, I'm liking it. But i'm being as patient as I can be to see if any LS 430's or Avalons pop up.
11-12-18, 01:55 PM
#5
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Yes. It is a 2010 LS 460 AWD with 130,000 miles. He says it has the premium sound package, gold trim, new factory struts, shocks, brakes, and newer tires. From the pictures it has the buttons on the middle console area that say height high and so on.
11-12-18, 02:01 PM
#6
It really comes down what you seek out of the car and will enjoy.
Want a luxury cruiser - get the LS460
Want a reliable runner from pre-iphone electronics era? get the LS430
The value car is the 2013 Avalon and may just be sized right.
Or you can wait until car shows come around in the late winter and early spring and get a sense of how things are sized, what the back row of seats feel like, etc. I learned that I liked the GS350 sizing a lot more than the LS460. At the end of the day, it boils down to what you want out of it and which will give you the most enjoyment. It could easily come down to the car that hits your pocket book the least and be able to spend more $$ elsewhere.
Want a luxury cruiser - get the LS460
Want a reliable runner from pre-iphone electronics era? get the LS430
The value car is the 2013 Avalon and may just be sized right.
Or you can wait until car shows come around in the late winter and early spring and get a sense of how things are sized, what the back row of seats feel like, etc. I learned that I liked the GS350 sizing a lot more than the LS460. At the end of the day, it boils down to what you want out of it and which will give you the most enjoyment. It could easily come down to the car that hits your pocket book the least and be able to spend more $$ elsewhere.
11-12-18, 02:11 PM
#7
Pole Position
Thread Starter
It really comes down what you seek out of the car and will enjoy.
Want a luxury cruiser - get the LS460
Want a reliable runner from pre-iphone electronics era? get the LS430
The value car is the 2013 Avalon and may just be sized right.
Or you can wait until car shows come around in the late winter and early spring and get a sense of how things are sized, what the back row of seats feel like, etc. I learned that I liked the GS350 sizing a lot more than the LS460. At the end of the day, it boils down to what you want out of it and which will give you the most enjoyment. It could easily come down to the car that hits your pocket book the least and be able to spend more $$ elsewhere.
Want a luxury cruiser - get the LS460
Want a reliable runner from pre-iphone electronics era? get the LS430
The value car is the 2013 Avalon and may just be sized right.
Or you can wait until car shows come around in the late winter and early spring and get a sense of how things are sized, what the back row of seats feel like, etc. I learned that I liked the GS350 sizing a lot more than the LS460. At the end of the day, it boils down to what you want out of it and which will give you the most enjoyment. It could easily come down to the car that hits your pocket book the least and be able to spend more $$ elsewhere.
The "smart" choice would definitely be the Avalon. But deep down, the luxurious ride of the LS sounds amazing. I feel like I have the angel and devil on my shoulders. One keep saying Avalon and buy the LS in a couple years. The other says I want the LS right now!
I probably would end up spending less on the LS right now than the Avalon. I'm finding 430's for less than $10k, 460's under $12k and Avalon's are around $15k.
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11-12-18, 02:54 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
So, I would cross off the LS430 because its too old and lacks the technology I want in a car, really old looking, etc.
So, between the LS460 and the Avalon. The LS460 is a much better car, but its a little older and will potentially cost more to repair. Can you shoulder those costs?
If you can't put your hands on $3,000 at a moments notice for a repair, I would get the Avalon.
So, between the LS460 and the Avalon. The LS460 is a much better car, but its a little older and will potentially cost more to repair. Can you shoulder those costs?
If you can't put your hands on $3,000 at a moments notice for a repair, I would get the Avalon.
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leisinjp (11-12-18)
11-12-18, 03:00 PM
#9
Pole Position
Thread Starter
So, I would cross off the LS430 because its too old and lacks the technology I want in a car, really old looking, etc.
So, between the LS460 and the Avalon. The LS460 is a much better car, but its a little older and will potentially cost more to repair. Can you shoulder those costs?
If you can't put your hands on $3,000 at a moments notice for a repair, I would get the Avalon.
So, between the LS460 and the Avalon. The LS460 is a much better car, but its a little older and will potentially cost more to repair. Can you shoulder those costs?
If you can't put your hands on $3,000 at a moments notice for a repair, I would get the Avalon.
Thanks for the input.
How often and realistic do you think it is to have $3,000 repair bills for the LS 460? If it well taken care of and doesn't have the air struts. It is known as one of the most reliable cars on the road. More than my ISF, and the most I spent on that was $1,500 for a starter.
How
11-12-18, 03:18 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Its unlikely, but its possible. Things that can go wrong? Starter is a $1,200-$1,500 job. Control arms are a common problem on these cars, they are $1,500-2,000 for aftermarket, $5,000+ for OEM Lexus parts, brake actuator is common issue, I believe thats a $2,000 job on one of these cars.
Its a very reliable car but its going on 9 years old with 130k miles...
Thats just the point, you have to be able to shoulder a repair like that to buy one of these cars older.
Its a very reliable car but its going on 9 years old with 130k miles...
Thats just the point, you have to be able to shoulder a repair like that to buy one of these cars older.
11-12-18, 05:05 PM
#11
My last 3 cars used for heavy work mileage:
2007 Camry V6 XLE
2014 Avalon Limited
2013 LS460 (just bought)
The Camry was a workhorse. I originally bought the Avalon to replace it and while it was a nice car, it just never really did it for me. I traded it for a 2018 CT6 last December. I went back to piling up miles on the Camry and it is still rolling strong at 230K. Knowing though that I'd sooner or later end up with a repair equal to the value of the car, I decided to get the LS460. There simply is no comparison with the Avalon (or the Camry) and the LS. The LS is so much more car that the comparison just isn't in the same league. If you want to have a direct Avalon comparison, go look at an ES350.
How long do you plan to keep it? If you are thinking years, go with the LS. You won't be sorry. I'd limit it to 2011+ models for sure and if you can swing a 2013+ I'd do that. I'm not knocking the Avalon, but it just isn't the car the LS is. No way.
2007 Camry V6 XLE
2014 Avalon Limited
2013 LS460 (just bought)
The Camry was a workhorse. I originally bought the Avalon to replace it and while it was a nice car, it just never really did it for me. I traded it for a 2018 CT6 last December. I went back to piling up miles on the Camry and it is still rolling strong at 230K. Knowing though that I'd sooner or later end up with a repair equal to the value of the car, I decided to get the LS460. There simply is no comparison with the Avalon (or the Camry) and the LS. The LS is so much more car that the comparison just isn't in the same league. If you want to have a direct Avalon comparison, go look at an ES350.
How long do you plan to keep it? If you are thinking years, go with the LS. You won't be sorry. I'd limit it to 2011+ models for sure and if you can swing a 2013+ I'd do that. I'm not knocking the Avalon, but it just isn't the car the LS is. No way.
11-12-18, 06:05 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
I'd definitely walk from that 2010 if you don't want/need the AWD and Air Suspension. Spent ~$3700 to replace the front differential and FR driveshaft on mine and another $625 to replace the FL air strut with a used OEM unit. I love the car and the air suspension really makes it, but there's always the thought of, what expensive part will break next?" that takes a little of the enjoyment out of it.
11-13-18, 05:25 AM
#13
One thing you should really concentrate on if you are particular about comfort is the seating in the newer Avalon models.
It's just not as comfortable as the Lexus or even older Avalon models.
Your OP talked about not liking the Camry seat, so I'd suggest some real seat time before you make a decision.
Surprised to hear you didn't like the GS, that seems like a great compromise and the price is right on the used GS right now.
It's just not as comfortable as the Lexus or even older Avalon models.
Your OP talked about not liking the Camry seat, so I'd suggest some real seat time before you make a decision.
Surprised to hear you didn't like the GS, that seems like a great compromise and the price is right on the used GS right now.
11-13-18, 06:50 AM
#14
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I'd definitely walk from that 2010 if you don't want/need the AWD and Air Suspension. Spent ~$3700 to replace the front differential and FR driveshaft on mine and another $625 to replace the FL air strut with a used OEM unit. I love the car and the air suspension really makes it, but there's always the thought of, what expensive part will break next?" that takes a little of the enjoyment out of it.
11-13-18, 06:52 AM
#15
Pole Position
Thread Starter
One thing you should really concentrate on if you are particular about comfort is the seating in the newer Avalon models.
It's just not as comfortable as the Lexus or even older Avalon models.
Your OP talked about not liking the Camry seat, so I'd suggest some real seat time before you make a decision.
Surprised to hear you didn't like the GS, that seems like a great compromise and the price is right on the used GS right now.
It's just not as comfortable as the Lexus or even older Avalon models.
Your OP talked about not liking the Camry seat, so I'd suggest some real seat time before you make a decision.
Surprised to hear you didn't like the GS, that seems like a great compromise and the price is right on the used GS right now.
I test drove an Avalon yesterday for about 20 minutes. You are very correct, it is no LS. But it was much better than the Camry SE seats. I'm not a small guy. 6"2 265LBs. So I put some weight on that seat. I could do the Avalon. But I want the LS! haha. I just need to find the right LS that has been taken care of and has service records to show.