Has anybody driven a 2013-2018 ES350?
10-17-18, 02:28 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Has anybody driven a 2013-2018 ES350?
I used to own a 2014 ES350 before i traded it in for a 2018 RX 350L. I got a chance to drive a cousin’s 2015 LS today and call me crazy but the ES felt smoother...??? The LS seemed quieter but the suspension and the way it drove felt like the ES is smoother. Am i crazy...? Wondering if it’s because of the awd driving dynamics of the LS..? Has anyone driven both the ES and the LS...?
10-17-18, 03:16 PM
#2
Pole Position
Well a few years ago I was thinking of trading in my LS for a new ES350, during the rather long test ride I turned to the salesman and said...are you kidding me? This thing is an absolute dog, my kid's Honda Accord is faster than this thing. He says, yeah perhaps a GS350 would be more suitable for you.
They are quiet and depending on the driving conditions the suspension can be more "smooth", I attribute that to the nature of the ES350. It's a Camry. It's a McPherson strut front suspension designed for economy and not exactly for handling. The LS can seem harsher - especially if the control arm bushings are worn - but it'll handle better, especially considering its a bigger car. And if everything is right on the LS front suspension? It's very smooth.
They are quiet and depending on the driving conditions the suspension can be more "smooth", I attribute that to the nature of the ES350. It's a Camry. It's a McPherson strut front suspension designed for economy and not exactly for handling. The LS can seem harsher - especially if the control arm bushings are worn - but it'll handle better, especially considering its a bigger car. And if everything is right on the LS front suspension? It's very smooth.
10-17-18, 05:33 PM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
The LS is smooth no doubt about it. I doubt anything was worn on the suspension since it had less than 35,000 miles on it. I always thought the LS was the pinnacle of luxury and comfort, up there with the S-class and aside from Bentleys and Rolls Royces. Maybe my expectations were too high, i don't know...
The ES handles like a boat but it's pretty quick once you put it on sport mode reaching 0-60 around 7 secs. Ain't no speed demon but not bad for what it is. I wouldn't compare the 6th gen ES to the Camry tho. It shares XX40 platform with Avalon, bigger car than the previous Camry and the driving dynamics are completely different, no comparison imo.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to rough up feathers or say the ES is better than the LS. The LS is a far better car than the ES imo. It's got better build quality, better tech & mechanics, roomier, more luxurious, etc... It's just that when i drove it, seems like i felt more road imperfections than the ES. And i just wanted to see what others thought or if i'm just out of my mind.
The ES handles like a boat but it's pretty quick once you put it on sport mode reaching 0-60 around 7 secs. Ain't no speed demon but not bad for what it is. I wouldn't compare the 6th gen ES to the Camry tho. It shares XX40 platform with Avalon, bigger car than the previous Camry and the driving dynamics are completely different, no comparison imo.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to rough up feathers or say the ES is better than the LS. The LS is a far better car than the ES imo. It's got better build quality, better tech & mechanics, roomier, more luxurious, etc... It's just that when i drove it, seems like i felt more road imperfections than the ES. And i just wanted to see what others thought or if i'm just out of my mind.
10-17-18, 07:22 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Many times. In fact, just last week I had a 2018 ES loaner. The LS doesn't really ride "softer" than the ES, but it rides better, its much more refined and controlled, much more solid and stable, feels more substantial. A lot of it depends on tires too, the LS comes with terrible OEM tires, and pressure wise if they're overinflated even a little bit it has a big impact on the ride.
The LS has a poise about it on any road surface that the ES lacks, even though the ES is a nice soft riding car. For instance, hit a speed bump at 40MPH in the LS and in the ES and the difference is very obvious. The LS just floats over the bump, where the suspension on the ES will crash and the car may even bottom out.
The ES isn't a bad car to drive, but getting out of it and back into my LS, the LS is a much, much better car in every way. Rides better, quieter, more refined, more substantial, bigger, much better interior materials, etc.
As an example, I just spent all day driving today. I drove up to PA to pick up my aunt for my cousin who just had heart surgery, then drove her to his house in Martinsburg, WV and then drove back home. 485 miles logged today...I got out of the car each time and ultimately at the end of the day with no stiffness or tiredness, and the day was quite enjoyable gliding along at 80-85 MPH. Having owned the ES in the past, it would not have been as relaxing a day in the ES.
It is, the S Class rides very similarly. These flagship sedans don't have a floaty boaty ride the way an old Lincoln does, they do a really good job of muting and isolating you from the road, but you do feel what is going on along the road surface, the feel of that just doesn't bother you...if that makes any sense.
You also have varying degrees of ride quality in the LS depending on how it's equipped. LWB cars ride better than SWB cars, cars with air suspension ride better than cars without, and cars on 18" wheels ride better than cars on 19" wheels.
The LS has a poise about it on any road surface that the ES lacks, even though the ES is a nice soft riding car. For instance, hit a speed bump at 40MPH in the LS and in the ES and the difference is very obvious. The LS just floats over the bump, where the suspension on the ES will crash and the car may even bottom out.
The ES isn't a bad car to drive, but getting out of it and back into my LS, the LS is a much, much better car in every way. Rides better, quieter, more refined, more substantial, bigger, much better interior materials, etc.
As an example, I just spent all day driving today. I drove up to PA to pick up my aunt for my cousin who just had heart surgery, then drove her to his house in Martinsburg, WV and then drove back home. 485 miles logged today...I got out of the car each time and ultimately at the end of the day with no stiffness or tiredness, and the day was quite enjoyable gliding along at 80-85 MPH. Having owned the ES in the past, it would not have been as relaxing a day in the ES.
I always thought the LS was the pinnacle of luxury and comfort, up there with the S-class and aside from Bentleys and Rolls Royces. Maybe my expectations were too high, i don't know...
You also have varying degrees of ride quality in the LS depending on how it's equipped. LWB cars ride better than SWB cars, cars with air suspension ride better than cars without, and cars on 18" wheels ride better than cars on 19" wheels.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-17-18 at 07:25 PM.
10-17-18, 10:52 PM
#5
Driver School Candidate
I've owned a LS430 for years and when it came time for a change I didnt jump straight to my current '11 LS 460L. Prior to checking it out, I test drove a '15 ES350 as well as RX350 (as well as a couple XC60s) to explore some options. I hadn't driven a ES in a few years and remember being very disappointed with them as loaners back then but it seems like they made a lot of improvements and also took some notes from the LS (there are some interior design elements that seem borrowed from the older LSs). It was much more enjoyable to drive than the RX350 I drove that day and overall it was great. That being said, when I went to drive my '11 LS460L there were no questions about which was the best ride and the best buy. Can't beat the solid, luxurious, and refined drive of the LS460 (especially coming from a LS430 UL).
10-18-18, 06:15 AM
#6
The LS is smooth no doubt about it. I doubt anything was worn on the suspension since it had less than 35,000 miles on it. I always thought the LS was the pinnacle of luxury and comfort, up there with the S-class and aside from Bentleys and Rolls Royces. Maybe my expectations were too high, i don't know..:
I've been in LS460s without air suspension or whee the air suspension was replaced with coilover and it just isn't the same.
Last edited by pappy97; 10-18-18 at 11:23 AM.
10-18-18, 12:03 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Many times. In fact, just last week I had a 2018 ES loaner. The LS doesn't really ride "softer" than the ES, but it rides better, its much more refined and controlled, much more solid and stable, feels more substantial. A lot of it depends on tires too, the LS comes with terrible OEM tires, and pressure wise if they're overinflated even a little bit it has a big impact on the ride.
I've owned a LS430 for years and when it came time for a change I didnt jump straight to my current '11 LS 460L. Prior to checking it out, I test drove a '15 ES350 as well as RX350 (as well as a couple XC60s) to explore some options. I hadn't driven a ES in a few years and remember being very disappointed with them as loaners back then but it seems like they made a lot of improvements and also took some notes from the LS (there are some interior design elements that seem borrowed from the older LSs). It was much more enjoyable to drive than the RX350 I drove that day and overall it was great. That being said, when I went to drive my '11 LS460L there were no questions about which was the best ride and the best buy. Can't beat the solid, luxurious, and refined drive of the LS460 (especially coming from a LS430 UL).
Did the LS you were in have air suspension? The pinnacle of luxury and comfort for LS460s is the LS460 L (long wheel base helps smooth out the ride) and most importantly, air suspension.
I've been in LS460s without air suspension or whee the air suspension was replaced with coilover and it just isn't the same.
I've been in LS460s without air suspension or whee the air suspension was replaced with coilover and it just isn't the same.
Has anyone driven both AWD and RWD? I wonder if there is any noticable difference in driving dynamics between the two....
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10-18-18, 01:42 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Has anyone driven both AWD and RWD? I wonder if there is any noticable difference in driving dynamics between the two....
10-18-18, 01:58 PM
#9
The LS doesn't really ride "softer" than the ES, but it rides better, its much more refined and controlled, much more solid and stable, feels more substantial.
The LS has a poise about it on any road surface that the ES lacks, even though the ES is a nice soft riding car. For instance, hit a speed bump at 40MPH in the LS and in the ES and the difference is very obvious. The LS just floats over the bump, where the suspension on the ES will crash and the car may even bottom out.
The ES isn't a bad car to drive, but getting out of it and back into my LS, the LS is a much, much better car in every way. Rides better, quieter, more refined, more substantial, bigger, much better interior materials, etc.
As an example, I just spent all day driving today. I drove up to PA to pick up my aunt for my cousin who just had heart surgery, then drove her to his house in Martinsburg, WV and then drove back home. 485 miles logged today...I got out of the car each time and ultimately at the end of the day with no stiffness or tiredness, and the day was quite enjoyable gliding along at 80-85 MPH. Having owned the ES in the past, it would not have been as relaxing a day in the ES.
The LS has a poise about it on any road surface that the ES lacks, even though the ES is a nice soft riding car. For instance, hit a speed bump at 40MPH in the LS and in the ES and the difference is very obvious. The LS just floats over the bump, where the suspension on the ES will crash and the car may even bottom out.
The ES isn't a bad car to drive, but getting out of it and back into my LS, the LS is a much, much better car in every way. Rides better, quieter, more refined, more substantial, bigger, much better interior materials, etc.
As an example, I just spent all day driving today. I drove up to PA to pick up my aunt for my cousin who just had heart surgery, then drove her to his house in Martinsburg, WV and then drove back home. 485 miles logged today...I got out of the car each time and ultimately at the end of the day with no stiffness or tiredness, and the day was quite enjoyable gliding along at 80-85 MPH. Having owned the ES in the past, it would not have been as relaxing a day in the ES.
10-19-18, 11:27 AM
#10
owned a 13' es for 4 years and still own a 13' LS460 L. No comparison. The RWD of the LS and the sound insulation in the cabin is night and day. Teh handling of the RWD vehicle is so much better than the FWD. Also I agree with an above poster that although the LS may not ride "softer" it feels the road issues alot less. Its double the money for a reason. On a side note the ES is a tremendous car but I personally would rather get a 2-3 year old well cared for LS for a bit more than you would pay for a new ES.
10-20-18, 08:55 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
The problem is many people equate softer with better, and thats not really the case. Its easy to engineer a suspension that won't transmit any feel of the road into the cabin, where you can roll over a huge pothole and feel nothing but like you're riding around on a pillow. The issue is, what happens when you're going 80 MPH? What happens when you have to turn? That soft pillowy ride at low speeds becomes an ungainly floaty nausea inducing affair on then highway. If you want to see the net effect of this, drive an 80s or 90s Lincoln Town Car, or any old American land yacht.
Even with modern more sophisticated cars like the ES and LS, even if the ES did feel "softer" at low speeds and have less bump impact, the LS feels much better at speed and on the highway where nothing you roll over unravels the experience, the ES moves around all over the road at those speeds by comparison.
The solution is an adaptive suspension setup like you get on the LS with air suspension where the dampers can adjust, which changes the firmness based on speed, steering input, etc.
Even with modern more sophisticated cars like the ES and LS, even if the ES did feel "softer" at low speeds and have less bump impact, the LS feels much better at speed and on the highway where nothing you roll over unravels the experience, the ES moves around all over the road at those speeds by comparison.
The solution is an adaptive suspension setup like you get on the LS with air suspension where the dampers can adjust, which changes the firmness based on speed, steering input, etc.
10-20-18, 06:24 PM
#12
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I stopped by my cousin’s today to see what the tire pressure was. Turns out, she cheaped out with some Kumho’s back in February and the tire shop overinflated them to over 40 psi on all 4... I got it down to 34-35 psi and immediately it felt much better. 
10-21-18, 11:36 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
There ya go. I run mine at 31 BTW, makes a huge difference from 34-35 even. And better tires than the Kumhos will make a big difference too.
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