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Just came back from the worst 3 hours trip I spent in my car... To make a long story short I agreed to spend the weekend in town with my gf as two of her college from Australia were in Montreal for a conference. Decided to bring the Lexus (2008 ls600hl with air suspension) and everything went fine at first. Ironically they commented on how quiet and comfortable the car was (have the reclining seat too). We stopped to eat and as we started to leave and hit the highway I started noticing that when we hit small bump the car started being incredibly unstable. Each bump was rocking the car like a beat up fishermen barge on way bigger waves it could handle. I managed to take an exit and stopped the car safely and I knew it was something with the air suspension. Got out of the car and notice the rear suspension completely collapsed, to a point where the car underbelly was almost dragging on the concrete. Tried to restart the car, pushed the height button, nothing. Front end was fine but rear was completely shot. I then proceed to tell my passengers yeah time to make a u turn and bring them back to their hotel. My gf looking at me "you serious ?" not believing it was something I couldn't handle. I said to her with a smile "well I don't think you realize the extend of the problem". I invited her to take a look and laughed hard as she stared at the car bottoming out like an abused w220 s class from a third world country. The 3 hours trip back was pretty abysmal, and the ride felt like sitting on the last row of those 1990 era school bus as the demented drivers would take a shortcut through hell's gate trail on his way to school... it was that bad.
As I said I just came back and still tired and haven't had the time to take a detailed look but wanted to wrote it there in case someone had any pointers before I start looking. I don't believe that the problems are the shock themselves as it would be extremely unlikely for both failing at the exact same time, plus I changed them just two years ago. I've been on this forum for a while and I don't recall hearing of any compressor failure yet, plus I believe if the compressor was broken then all four shocks would be out of air unless the car have one compressor for the front and one for the rear which I don't think it's the case. Next could be a leak in the rear line. I'm not familiar with the ls460/600 design but if there was a leak wouldn't the front shock gradually loose air when the car is not running (unless there an actuator that can close the front and rear line) ? As of right now both front shock are keeping their air when when the car is turned off. I don't have any warning lights on the dashboard.
Any input or suggestion is welcomed, and I'll share my finding when I sort this out.
This is a strange one... The fact that it's the entire rear does rule out (as you pointed out) some things. I had little time to research in detail, but fuses came to mind, and upon a quick check of the manual, there is definitely more than one fuse (and in multiple fuse boxes) for the air suspension. At the moment, that's where I would start. Actuators came to mind too at first, but again, the fact that it's two at once makes me think something has powered down (actuators, valves, height control, etc.) - hence the thought on fuses.
No luck in the fuse boxes, all seemed fine. I'll try to hook Techstream tomorrow and run some tests on the suspension.
Edit: Techstream show current error C1761 (continuous current to compressor motor) and past error C1762 (Continuous current to exhaust solenoid). C1761 is likely the compressor running for too long trying to inflate the rear shocks then after a certain time displaying that error.
Additionnal infos:
*1: The system may output DTC C1761 even when the system is normal if one of the following occurs: 1) the vehicle is full of passengers and the luggage compartment is full; 2) the vehicle is being driven or is stopped on an irregular surface; or 3) the air ducts are frozen.
*2: The system may output DTC C1762 even when the system is normal if one of the following occurs: 1) the vehicle is being driven or is stopped on an irregular surface; or 2) the air tubes are clogged with snow or are frozen. If DTC C1762 is output, vehicle height control will stop. However, if the power switch is turned OFF and then ON (IG), vehicle height control will start.
Last edited by Vansibel; 03-26-18 at 09:44 PM.
Reason: More infos
Resetting the code this morning forced the pump to turn on again and with the cold outside I could clearly see a major air leak from the rear driver side. Removed the wheel and leak seems to come from under the car between the 2 rear shock. Need to go to a garage so they can lift the car on a 2 post lift so I can clearly see the source of the leak.
Did you have passengers in the back seat since you replaced them two years ago? My money is on something was not done right by the dealer who replacement them
Did you have passengers in the back seat since you replaced them two years ago? My money is on something was not done right by the dealer who replacement them
Maybe once or twice, previous repair could have played... The experience was pretty abysmal and they were rated best Lexus dealer in the area. Ended up having to teach their master technician how to calibrate the suspension in techstream and them wrecking my car and trying to hide it. Yeah I know the car is not new but dealing with problems as they occur have been a nightmare. So today since I could barely move with the car I brought it to a garage to have it lifted. Me and the tech managed to pinpoint the leak on the rear tube No. 7. But as we put the car down all hell broke loose as now the 4 shocks were deflated and would not inflate again because one tube was removed and air was getting out too fast. Car was so low that we could barely remove the leg from the lift and even if the floor was flat the bottom was rubbing the concrete, absolutely impossible to move the car in that condition. As I tried anything I could to lift the suspension again the owner was waiting outside with a giant fork lift to forcibly remove the car if I could not do it. I gave some instruction to the tech and he used a screw to plug the hole from the valve from where the broken tube was removed, I connected my techstream to clear code that popped again (that code deactivate the compressor for 70 min) so the compressor could start again and managed to get 2 shocks up enough to move the car. Now I know why most car have spring, I can't believe there is not some kind of fail safe on those air shocks that prevent them from bottoming out when there is a leak in the line. So basically, if your line have enough of a leak of if your compressor dies, you are screwed. And just trying to put the car on a tow in that condition will definitely greatly damage it. Those air suspension are a nightmare when they fail and people should learn from that experience and stay away from it. And trust me they will fail and before the battery. So after that called the dealer, got quoted 288$ + taxes for the part (one small plastic tubes, here is a picture: http://www.bildelsbasen.se/?index=default&link=item&ggl=s16&searchmode=1&vc1=162&pc1=114&vc[0]=162104100&pc[0]=114100103&post_id=28375158#)
Those price are just comical so much it's ridiculous, but needed the part asap. Will be able to install the part next week and hopefully the suspension will sort itself because now it's a mess and uneven on all corner.
Absolutely, and it's also people choice to heed this advice from someone who lived it's inconvenience first hand. The ls600hl only come with air suspension so there nothing to choose here here unless you buy another car. I'm just sharing my experience here to help people make an enlighten choice and learn from the experience of others. To be honest I wouldn't have though a car with air suspension could get so low that the underbelly would rub on the ground. Suspension have been know to be the Achilles heel on this gen of the ls and consumer report also list the suspension as unreliable. At least with springs you have some kind of fail safe and your car cant bottom out like when it's on air. In the end we live and learn.
The suspension reliability issues reported by CR are related to control arm issues that were resolved halfway through the 2010 production run.
Air suspensions will always fail.... ALWAYS. It's just a matter of time. I have a feeling that if you had 1) anticipated the failure, and 2) not had it fail at the beginning of a long trip where others were dependent upon you for transportation, this would not be as big of an issue.
IMO, the air suspension is worth it, but you gotta pay to play.
The suspension reliability issues reported by CR are related to control arm issues that were resolved halfway through the 2010 production run.
Air suspensions will always fail.... ALWAYS. It's just a matter of time. I have a feeling that if you had 1) anticipated the failure, and 2) not had it fail at the beginning of a long trip where others were dependent upon you for transportation, this would not be as big of an issue.
IMO, the air suspension is worth it, but you gotta pay to play.
I disagree, the trip back was manageable because at least the car was driving since only the rear was down and the compressor was still working. But in the event of a complete failure of air (compressor or leak) I just don't see how the car could be tow without inflicting significant damage on it while loading/unloading it and that's the potential major issue I'm bringing up. Mercedes have emergency buffer you can install to keep the shock up in case of an Airmatic suspension failure but I haven't hear anything equivalent on Lexus side. So even if that would happen at home unless you are equipped to do the repair on the spot the car happen to be you would be in serious trouble. I'm no expert at towing and I may not be aware of some trick they might use without wrecking the car underbelly but trust me, if it happen to you you cant go anywhere without your car starting falling apart.
The suspension reliability issues reported by CR are related to control arm issues that were resolved halfway through the 2010 production run.
Air suspensions will always fail.... ALWAYS. It's just a matter of time. I have a feeling that if you had 1) anticipated the failure, and 2) not had it fail at the beginning of a long trip where others were dependent upon you for transportation, this would not be as big of an issue.
IMO, the air suspension is worth it, but you gotta pay to play.
The control arm issue was not resolved through the 2010 production run, the 2010's+ LS control arms still fail prematurely, they may have redesigned the control arms mid 2010 but they still fail and have issues. For months I have been checking service histories for dozens of 2010,2011,2012, and 2013 LS460's and most of them still had issues/needed to be replaced before 65K miles. Every LS460 I have test driven was making suspension noises/creaks/pops, some really bad that I just turn right around immediately because I know what is up and would not want to deal with it, most of them were 2010's and 2011's. I just had a 2011 that I was seriously consider buying that after it was put on a lift and given a PPI from Lexus it started making all kinds of suspension noises on the drive back when I made turns.
I wouldn't buy a car with air suspension. If the car was given to me or seriously discounted (like 1/2 price) from a friend or relative I would take it. Cars are enough trouble let alone dealing with a surprise air suspension failure on a trip or anywhere for that matter.
I wouldn't buy a car with air suspension. If the car was given to me or seriously discounted (like 1/2 price) from a friend or relative I would take it. Cars are enough trouble let alone dealing with a surprise air suspension failure on a trip or anywhere for that matter.
i agree. Unfortunately, I have a 2013 with air. If I were to do it again I would buy one without air. I wanted the ultra luxury package and that only came with air. I need to make sure I have enough funds to replace the air components if/ when they fail. I really do not see a big difference between air vs non-air. I had a 2011 without air and the car rides very similarly. I also have AWD, so they got me with OEM parts. Last I looked one air strut was ~$950. Ouch......... I pray everyday that my suspension holds up!!!!!
I never understand this line of thinking. Stuff breaks, and stuff breaks more often on 10 year old cars. Complicated systems that deliver superior results, like air suspension, cost more when they break. Some things are expensive because they are built to last, some things are expensive because they are technologically advanced, some thing are expensive because they are a luxury and economy of scale can't drive price point down.
The air suspension on the LS is one of the two latter options, and the fact that it lasts without issue for 8-10 years is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. I bought an LS SPECIFICALLY to get stuff I can't have on other cars not on this level. It makes no sense to me to buy a luxury car without the things that make it luxurious.
03-26-18, 05:34 PM
Rear air suspension total failure
