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LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017) Discussion topics related to the current flagship models LS460, LS460L and LS600H

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Old 10-17-17, 12:39 PM   #1
Spudo769
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Default Looking for an LS

Hi All,

I am selling my 2014 Buick Regal, great car, but looking for more luxury, to my son who has been bugging me to sell it to him for 2 years. I am looking to get something larger and more luxurious with reasonable back seat room. I have been doing tons of research here on the forum. I have a few questions for those who would like to give me opinions.
  1. I have a budget of about $22k. It would be great to stay less than $17k. I started looking at 2007's, and you can find them out there with less than 100k miles on them in that 18k and below range. I have educated myself on options to help see what each one has. I also started looking at newer ones up to 2010 with possibly more miles. If you had to choose, would you consider an older one with more options at a lower price or a newer one with as many or more miles and possibly fewer options?
  2. How is the rear seat and trnk room? If I had to haul my golf foursome around would a couple 200 LB men fit comfortably in the back? Will 4 sets of clubs fit in the trunk?
  3. How are these in the snow? I know they are rear drive. An added bonus is that the Regal is going south and my son won't need the winter wheels and tires. My research so far indicates that the same set of wheels and tires will fit on at least the 2007 models, with 18 inch tires.
  4. Sound system- at first I was considering the ML system as a must have. However I have been reading horror stories about the amplifier failing and there goes the have not experienced problems with the amp? How about the hard drive? Is the sound really that much better?
  5. NAV- It seems that most models come with this. I am perfectly comfortable and used to Waze or Google for NAV due to real time nature. I don't want to spend hundreds updating it. Does a non- Navi unit still have a rear view camera? Our 2010 RX 350 has a small rear view camera built into the mirror. I would very much like the rear view camera and parking sensors,
  6. We have bought several RX models used over the years for my wife to drive, they have been very good to us. We buy them used, she doesn't put many miles on them. I however do about 18-20k miles per year. Hoping for the same reliability.

Anything else to consider?
Thanks in advance and thanks for all the accumulated info so far!
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Old 10-17-17, 01:47 PM   #2
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Trunk room. My L460L has the fridge in the trunk. My advice, avoid the fridge if you want more space. It's a feature that I would not use much (still have not after about 8 months with the car) and it takes a MAJOR chunk of the trunk... So bad we don't take my LS any more on big trips any more, My old LS430 had about the same size trunk with out the fridge and it was a very good size.

Navi- It works in a pinch but, even at $169.99 for a software upgrade (cheaper than the LS430) it's just not worth it compared to Waze or a 3rd party program with real time community traffic (Waze rocks). The downfall is, if you don't get the navi, you don't get the ML audio option or some other features. As far as I know, the NON-NAVI system does not have a rear view camera. Personally I even the Navi system is so so, I think the dash looks so much nicer than the Non-navi systems. Of course that is my thoughts.

Keep in mind with the ML system, there are plenty of problems but, most users have not had an issue, and for someone who has heard both (took a Non-Navi system, with no ML system for a test drive), No question the ML system is a better sounding system and it would be a STANDARD on any LS I would buy. I would never look at a LS with out the ML system.

Last edited by DavidinCT; 10-17-17 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-17-17, 02:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudo769 View Post
  1. I have a budget of about $22k. It would be great to stay less than $17k. I started looking at 2007's, and you can find them out there with less than 100k miles on them in that 18k and below range. I have educated myself on options to help see what each one has. I also started looking at newer ones up to 2010 with possibly more miles. If you had to choose, would you consider an older one with more options at a lower price or a newer one with as many or more miles and possibly fewer options? The updates and fixes that were rolled out in 2010 is worth the extra money, just look for one that came in the second half of 2010 or later.
  2. How is the rear seat and trnk room? If I had to haul my golf foursome around would a couple 200 LB men fit comfortably in the back? Will 4 sets of clubs fit in the trunk? The SWB will work fine, but go for the LWB if backseat legroom is important to you. I have the L and love it, everyone wants to take my car when it's time for lunch.
  3. How are these in the snow? I know they are rear drive. An added bonus is that the Regal is going south and my son won't need the winter wheels and tires. My research so far indicates that the same set of wheels and tires will fit on at least the 2007 models, with 18 inch tires. You can get them in AWD as well.
  4. Sound system- at first I was considering the ML system as a must have. However I have been reading horror stories about the amplifier failing and there goes the have not experienced problems with the amp? How about the hard drive? Is the sound really that much better? There are bigger problems than the ML amp that you need to be wary about, such as the early control arms, brake actuators, and other items with active TSBs. Keep reading, but don't let the few stories about the ML amp scare you away, I love mine and have had no problems.
  5. NAV- It seems that most models come with this. I am perfectly comfortable and used to Waze or Google for NAV due to real time nature. I don't want to spend hundreds updating it. Does a non- Navi unit still have a rear view camera? Our 2010 RX 350 has a small rear view camera built into the mirror. I would very much like the rear view camera and parking sensors, You might have a hard time finding non-nav units to be honest. But as was said, without it you lose the backup cam.
  6. We have bought several RX models used over the years for my wife to drive, they have been very good to us. We buy them used, she doesn't put many miles on them. I however do about 18-20k miles per year. Hoping for the same reliability. It's a Toyota.

Anything else to consider? Look for one without the air suspension if you aren't too keen on dropping big money to fix it when struts eventually fail, and AWD models have many parts for which the aftermarket is scarce requiring you to spend OEM prices
My thoughts above, good luck in your search
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Old 10-17-17, 03:34 PM   #4
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Trunk space was a huge concern for me, going from an LS 430 to LS 460. The LS 430 trunk is something like 20.2 cu. ft. and the LS 460 is 18.0 cu. ft., exactly 10% less. However, the 460 trunk is an inch or so taller than the 430 and so it allowed me to orient luggage vertically and fit the same amount of suitcases as the 430. I am not sure about golf clubs as I don't golf. One time I was getting gas behind a 600hL and the owner was kind enough to pop the trunk for me. The combination of reclining rear seat, rear AC unit, and hybrid batteries left him just enough room for a single set of golf clubs.

If you want maximum trunk space then find one without the rear seat upgrades/rear AC/reac cooler box. 2007-2009 MY (model year) allowed (new) buyers to custom select rear seat upgrades separate from the rear 2nd AC unit. That meant you could get heated and cooled rear seats without sacrificing as much trunk space (normally the rear seat are just heated, but not cooled). Beginning in 2010, Lexus repackaged the options and forced you to get the rear AC unit, chill box, and rear seat upgrades altogether, something like a $14K option. Unsurprisingly, not too many buyers selected that option and that is why you don't see too many "Ultra Luxury" 2010-2012 models.

Also, keep in mind that Lexus redesigned some things and provided 30% additional trunk space in the 2009+ models. Although late-2010 is the best year in terms of control arm reliability, I feel 2009 is actually the best year if you want rear seat upgrades while still preserving trunk space. Please refer to the following threads below for more information and best of luck on your search. Take your time and be patient. Don't settle, the right one will come around. I would have had tremendous buyer's remorse if not for the members on this forum looking out for me and keeping me grounded.

If you get the long-wheelbase 460L version, with five additional inches of rear legroom, then your rear golf buddies can have plenty of room to stretch out and just carry their golf bag between their legs. The L is ridiculously spacious in the back.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...30-larger.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...practical.html

Last edited by FatherTo1; 10-17-17 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 10-18-17, 08:13 AM   #5
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If your ideal budget is $17k, I don't see any way you can get a 2010 or newer (which is what I would recommend as one other member points out). If you look for 2007-2009, I would look closely at the repair history for control arms, brake actuator, and have a close look & feel of the interior door panels (for the sticky and cracking issue). A PPI (pre purchase inspection) can help to see if the control arms have been replaced by someone other than Toyota/Lexus if they don't show up as being replaced under Lexus service history. It looks like you are new here, so would recommend you sign up for the Lexus Drivers Site which allows you to search VIN's and see the car's entire service history at a Lexus or Toyota dealership (no charge).

If you stretch your budget to $22k you can likely find a 2010- to get it at that price it will come with slightly higher miles (probably 75k-90k miles). Ideally you go for one that's stamped as being built April/May or later as the second half of production that year seems to have minimized the likelihood of some issues mentioned above. I would not be concerned whatsoever buying a 460 with 100k miles or more as long as it has been well maintained. I drove my 400 and 430 to roughly 250k miles each. The 460 engine seems to be of similar build quality.

For interior room, the SWB has absolutely sufficient rear leg room for your golfing buddies. The interior space of the "L" (what I have) is just incredible as it adds 5 more inches of rear leg room. However, L's are hard to find, and even harder to find without air suspension (which will fail at some point and is expensive to repair). So I would personally just find the best car you can get within your budget and not set your sights exclusively on an "L". And on the golf clubs- 4 sets won't be an issue.
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Old 10-18-17, 08:48 AM   #6
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Here's a 2010 for sale for $16,500 with 126k miles. Not bad!

Edit - apparently you can't see the link unless you belong to this group on facebook. Oh well.

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Old 10-18-17, 09:01 AM   #7
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My 2010 SWB has the Comfort Plus package that includes climate-controlled and individually-powered rear seats. There was no loss of trunk space. I think FatherTo1 might have been referring to the 2010 LWB version, which has some different packages and configurations.

For 4 adult passengers, you should have plenty of legroom in the SWB. A LWB has, of course, even more space. I'm not sure how many sets of golf clubs could fit in my trunk, but it's very spacious.

i like the additional features in the 2010 model, including Bluetooth audio (music) streaming, auto slide-back driver's sear, integrated side mirror turn signals, etc, which is why I shopped 2010-2012 over 2007-2009.
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Old 10-18-17, 03:21 PM   #8
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Definitely the newer car. The only option I wouldn't want to live without in the '07-'12 LS would be Mark Levinson (and nav, but hardly any were sold without nav).
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Old 10-18-17, 03:27 PM   #9
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One other tidbit on the ML Amp: it seems that was one of the things they addressed during the 2010 model refresh as failure does not seem nearly as common in later models as it is in 07-09 models.
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Old 10-18-17, 06:10 PM   #10
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FWIW, my ML system in my 08 has been absolutely problem-free for the 4 years I've owned it. I play my system LOUD regularly (over 50) and it's never burped, farted or crapped the bed. Whatever you do, GET THE ML!!
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Old 10-19-17, 05:13 AM   #11
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I think 213374U gave a great advice. Add to what he said, since you plan on putting high miles, I would stay away from 2007/8 models. No matter how great the service history was, design flaws can't be fixed by regular service. They need repair. If you are a DIYer, may be an option.


RX and LS are two different cars. LS is more involved and high maintenance (cost vice) compare to RX.
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Old 10-19-17, 07:28 AM   #12
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Just the kind of feedback i was looking for! Going to look at a late cycle 2007 today, only 68k on the clock. Owner purchased it new and all the records are at the dealer that we bought our other one. It was his 'summer' car, so he claims it has never been in the snow. Seems to have all options except for air suspension, ML stereo, self parking, rear memory seats that are cooled. Garage kept and he is only asking 16,500, which is clean trade value on NADA. Seems like a no brainer as comparable low mileage examples are going close to 20,000 around here at dealers. I figure if I can trade up to a later model in time but in the meantime be into this one for less than my ideal budget. Hopefully it's everything he says it is, the pictures and records line up so far.
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Old 10-19-17, 07:54 AM   #13
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4 people is no problem, backseat passengers are very comfortable. Not sure about 4 sets of clubs though. My set fits fine but the trunk gets narrower towards the front of the car. ML is a must have, big difference in sound.

These cars are terrible in the snow. Dedicated snow tires are a must.
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Old 10-19-17, 10:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudo769 View Post
Going to look at a late cycle 2007 today, only 68k on the clock. Owner purchased it new .....he is only asking 16,500
Sounds like a good deal! Be sure to post up some pics and get the VIN so you can run it through the Lexus Drivers site to get the full service history.
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Old 10-19-17, 04:26 PM   #15
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The 07-12 LS used values have tanked in the last year for some reason. Keep looking in Craigslist and Autotrader.com/Cars.com. I've seen them under $10k for what looks like decent cars. Do try to find a 2010 or later if you can.
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