2014 LS460L Lease?
05-17-17, 01:18 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by R Z
I'm not one to do a lease or what I affectionately call a fleece. You have nothing to show when you've made your last payment, if you go over your miles you pay more, and if you damage the car you pay to repair. Still all that money spent and nothing to show at the end of the term. With a purchased LS you have two options: 1. You can pay it off and use it on trade on your next vehicle or 2. Keep the car and enjoy life without a car payment.
That's just my opinion.
That's just my opinion.
Nobody asked whether leasing was smart, all he did was ask if that particular deal was a good deal or not. You make decisions for you, we can make decisions for us.
Sorry to snap at you but it's really a huge problem here and it's annoying as hell.
05-17-17, 03:39 PM
#17
I'm not one to do a lease or what I affectionately call a fleece. You have nothing to show when you've made your last payment, if you go over your miles you pay more, and if you damage the car you pay to repair. Still all that money spent and nothing to show at the end of the term. With a purchased LS you have two options: 1. You can pay it off and use it on trade on your next vehicle or 2. Keep the car and enjoy life without a car payment.
That's just my opinion.
That's just my opinion.
I love cars, but I don't love them THAT much lol
To the OP I agree with the previous guys, I would try to forget about that itch and just enjoy your 08 600 , especially since its under warrantee.
Youd be surprised how a new set of wheels or a few part changes can make you fall in love with the car again.....id try that first before doing anything too drastic lol
Please don't. We're all smart enough to make our own financial decisions. Any thread that discusses a lease always descends into people trying to preach to those of us who lease how wrong we are.
Nobody asked whether leasing was smart, all he did was ask if that particular deal was a good deal or not. You make decisions for you, we can make decisions for us.
Sorry to snap at you but it's really a huge problem here and it's annoying as hell.
Nobody asked whether leasing was smart, all he did was ask if that particular deal was a good deal or not. You make decisions for you, we can make decisions for us.
Sorry to snap at you but it's really a huge problem here and it's annoying as hell.
05-17-17, 04:00 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
It's fine that it's not for you, nobody is trying to convince you that it should be. If you want to buy cars, used or new and pay them off and keep them that's great. The issue whenever there's a thread where someone asks a question about leasing this happens, somebody comes in and off topic derides leasing by calling it "fleecing" (you didn't make that by the way R Z you've read Dave Ramsey books) and trying to otherwise say those of us who lease are stupid or uninformed or whatever. Its patronizing, rude and off topic.
Perhaps those of us who do lease or are interested in leasing, or people who have questions about a specific lease deal would like to discuss that without having it devolve into this ....every....damn....time.
When you guys post threads talking about buying old cars and negotiating deals, we don't post saying "you know you could lease a new one it'd be a lot smarter" do we? I don't understand buying a 5-10 year old car like an LS for $20-30k, I think that's silly and Not something I can wrap my head around but that's me, not you. Pay us the same courtesy is all I'm saying.
Perhaps those of us who do lease or are interested in leasing, or people who have questions about a specific lease deal would like to discuss that without having it devolve into this ....every....damn....time.
When you guys post threads talking about buying old cars and negotiating deals, we don't post saying "you know you could lease a new one it'd be a lot smarter" do we? I don't understand buying a 5-10 year old car like an LS for $20-30k, I think that's silly and Not something I can wrap my head around but that's me, not you. Pay us the same courtesy is all I'm saying.
Last edited by SW17LS; 05-17-17 at 04:03 PM.
05-17-17, 05:35 PM
#19
Ditto. OP, check the leases on a new one and see what the difference is.
05-17-17, 05:39 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
There for a very little bit LFS had some decent leases on used ones, 3 year old LS460s for like $699, GS's for like $350, etc. But they clearly weren't making on those what they thought they would so they stopped being so aggressive.
Issue is the money factors on the CPO leases are extremely poor
Issue is the money factors on the CPO leases are extremely poor
05-17-17, 07:59 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the responses! I tend to agree that leasing can actually be a pretty great alternative to buying in many cases, especially for business owners who can deduct the full lease cost. I've leased like 20+ cars over the past 15 years (many low cost leases for my kids, like Hyundai Elantra's for $119 per month with zero down). I do also agree, though, that the current Lexus CPO Leases are pretty terrible right now, due to the very high money factor.
For my particular current dilemma, I've decided if I do wish to proceed with swapping out my 2008 LS600hL with the 2014 LS460L, I'd definitely be better off buying than leasing. Now I just have to decide if it's the right time for me to make this sort of move. The price on the 460L is down to $62,500, and my trade-in offer is up to $21,300, to things are moving in the right direction. I see lots of pros to owning a virtually new Ultra-Luxury LS460L AWD with every conceivable option. On the other hand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my LS600, and precluding an unexpected hybrid battery failure, I'll get another 3 years of repair-free driving out of it.
Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions. This is a great forum!
For my particular current dilemma, I've decided if I do wish to proceed with swapping out my 2008 LS600hL with the 2014 LS460L, I'd definitely be better off buying than leasing. Now I just have to decide if it's the right time for me to make this sort of move. The price on the 460L is down to $62,500, and my trade-in offer is up to $21,300, to things are moving in the right direction. I see lots of pros to owning a virtually new Ultra-Luxury LS460L AWD with every conceivable option. On the other hand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my LS600, and precluding an unexpected hybrid battery failure, I'll get another 3 years of repair-free driving out of it.
Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions. This is a great forum!
05-17-17, 08:21 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Personally? I'd do it and I'll lay out why.
1. This is an unusual LS460L. You don't see cars with this level of equipment every day, this car was certainly a special order car as dealers do not stock them like this. If you want that level of equipment, it may be years until you find a local car like this, or you may not ever. Remember...that in 14, 15, 16 & 17 they sold very few LS units, something like 3-7k a year total. The VAST majority of those are LS460s like mine, very few were L's and of those few, VERY few were equipped like this one. Seriously, this may be one of only 2 or 3 2014 models equipped this way in the whole country. This one is colors you like, incredibly low miles. IMHO this is a no brainer...I would consider even getting out of MY LS460 for this car at that price. If I had your LS600hL, I'd have done the deal no question.
2. The 2013+ is in fact a big upgrade. Material differences inside you are insulated from because you have a 600, but materials are a big step up, the seats are much better, the car is more solid, stiffer, smoother and quieter. From a tech perspective its huge, you get the updated nav with traffic, BT audio streaming and phone app integration. Its a much more modern car in a more modern package, despite being essentially the same car.
3. Your hybrid is an unknown quantity. Yes you have a warranty, but the car is up there in age and miles, and we know people have had issues with hybrid components and their expense is huge, especially on what will be in 3 years a 12 year old steeply depreciated car. The 2014 will give you a lot more than 3 more years of trouble free driving, and the LS at this stage is so well sorted out, this is a car you could easily put 150k miles on and not even think twice about. Your 600 would be a car I would not keep out of warranty. This however I would.
4. Yes 13-17 460 prices may take a hit, but your 600 is going to take an equal hit, if not steeper as it gets older and buyers get more and more nervous about the hybrid system. So if this is a car at some point you want, then now or later, the delta between your car and this car isn't going to change, and like I said you may *never* find a car like this particular car again. In 3 years, your 600 struggles to be a $10k car In would venture to say, and this is going to be ~ 40k...and it will have way more miles like I said if something similar can even be found.
Seriously...do it.
1. This is an unusual LS460L. You don't see cars with this level of equipment every day, this car was certainly a special order car as dealers do not stock them like this. If you want that level of equipment, it may be years until you find a local car like this, or you may not ever. Remember...that in 14, 15, 16 & 17 they sold very few LS units, something like 3-7k a year total. The VAST majority of those are LS460s like mine, very few were L's and of those few, VERY few were equipped like this one. Seriously, this may be one of only 2 or 3 2014 models equipped this way in the whole country. This one is colors you like, incredibly low miles. IMHO this is a no brainer...I would consider even getting out of MY LS460 for this car at that price. If I had your LS600hL, I'd have done the deal no question.
2. The 2013+ is in fact a big upgrade. Material differences inside you are insulated from because you have a 600, but materials are a big step up, the seats are much better, the car is more solid, stiffer, smoother and quieter. From a tech perspective its huge, you get the updated nav with traffic, BT audio streaming and phone app integration. Its a much more modern car in a more modern package, despite being essentially the same car.
3. Your hybrid is an unknown quantity. Yes you have a warranty, but the car is up there in age and miles, and we know people have had issues with hybrid components and their expense is huge, especially on what will be in 3 years a 12 year old steeply depreciated car. The 2014 will give you a lot more than 3 more years of trouble free driving, and the LS at this stage is so well sorted out, this is a car you could easily put 150k miles on and not even think twice about. Your 600 would be a car I would not keep out of warranty. This however I would.
4. Yes 13-17 460 prices may take a hit, but your 600 is going to take an equal hit, if not steeper as it gets older and buyers get more and more nervous about the hybrid system. So if this is a car at some point you want, then now or later, the delta between your car and this car isn't going to change, and like I said you may *never* find a car like this particular car again. In 3 years, your 600 struggles to be a $10k car In would venture to say, and this is going to be ~ 40k...and it will have way more miles like I said if something similar can even be found.
Seriously...do it.
05-18-17, 06:13 AM
#23
If you really want it, I would offer $58K ($56K KBB private owner-excellent condition + $2K for certified) and probably go to $59K. Don't trade in you LS600, you will get way more if you sell privately... I think you can easily get $25K for it... Unless tax reduction for the trade can make up the difference... Dealer will turn around and sell your LS600 for $28K after an oil change and you will kick yourself seeing it disappear off the lot in couple of days...
05-18-17, 07:47 AM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
If I may add an alternative - knowing your trade value is $21,3k (and when I look on autotrader most LS600h's are going in the high $20s without a warranty), ASSUMING your VSA is transferrable, list it on Autotrader for...say $28k. If it sells, that allows you to move on the 2014. If it doesn't, hang onto it =).
As a side note, someone had posted on here that a dealer in VA was looking to sell a new 2016 F-Sport LS460 for $68k...of course without a lot of these options but a budget of the $60s does give you a lot of options for a LS460...
As a side note, someone had posted on here that a dealer in VA was looking to sell a new 2016 F-Sport LS460 for $68k...of course without a lot of these options but a budget of the $60s does give you a lot of options for a LS460...
05-18-17, 07:50 AM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
Personally? I'd do it and I'll lay out why.
1. This is an unusual LS460L. You don't see cars with this level of equipment every day, this car was certainly a special order car as dealers do not stock them like this. If you want that level of equipment, it may be years until you find a local car like this, or you may not ever. Remember...that in 14, 15, 16 & 17 they sold very few LS units, something like 3-7k a year total. The VAST majority of those are LS460s like mine, very few were L's and of those few, VERY few were equipped like this one. Seriously, this may be one of only 2 or 3 2014 models equipped this way in the whole country. This one is colors you like, incredibly low miles. IMHO this is a no brainer...I would consider even getting out of MY LS460 for this car at that price. If I had your LS600hL, I'd have done the deal no question.
2. The 2013+ is in fact a big upgrade. Material differences inside you are insulated from because you have a 600, but materials are a big step up, the seats are much better, the car is more solid, stiffer, smoother and quieter. From a tech perspective its huge, you get the updated nav with traffic, BT audio streaming and phone app integration. Its a much more modern car in a more modern package, despite being essentially the same car.
3. Your hybrid is an unknown quantity. Yes you have a warranty, but the car is up there in age and miles, and we know people have had issues with hybrid components and their expense is huge, especially on what will be in 3 years a 12 year old steeply depreciated car. The 2014 will give you a lot more than 3 more years of trouble free driving, and the LS at this stage is so well sorted out, this is a car you could easily put 150k miles on and not even think twice about. Your 600 would be a car I would not keep out of warranty. This however I would.
4. Yes 13-17 460 prices may take a hit, but your 600 is going to take an equal hit, if not steeper as it gets older and buyers get more and more nervous about the hybrid system. So if this is a car at some point you want, then now or later, the delta between your car and this car isn't going to change, and like I said you may *never* find a car like this particular car again. In 3 years, your 600 struggles to be a $10k car In would venture to say, and this is going to be ~ 40k...and it will have way more miles like I said if something similar can even be found.
Seriously...do it.
1. This is an unusual LS460L. You don't see cars with this level of equipment every day, this car was certainly a special order car as dealers do not stock them like this. If you want that level of equipment, it may be years until you find a local car like this, or you may not ever. Remember...that in 14, 15, 16 & 17 they sold very few LS units, something like 3-7k a year total. The VAST majority of those are LS460s like mine, very few were L's and of those few, VERY few were equipped like this one. Seriously, this may be one of only 2 or 3 2014 models equipped this way in the whole country. This one is colors you like, incredibly low miles. IMHO this is a no brainer...I would consider even getting out of MY LS460 for this car at that price. If I had your LS600hL, I'd have done the deal no question.
2. The 2013+ is in fact a big upgrade. Material differences inside you are insulated from because you have a 600, but materials are a big step up, the seats are much better, the car is more solid, stiffer, smoother and quieter. From a tech perspective its huge, you get the updated nav with traffic, BT audio streaming and phone app integration. Its a much more modern car in a more modern package, despite being essentially the same car.
3. Your hybrid is an unknown quantity. Yes you have a warranty, but the car is up there in age and miles, and we know people have had issues with hybrid components and their expense is huge, especially on what will be in 3 years a 12 year old steeply depreciated car. The 2014 will give you a lot more than 3 more years of trouble free driving, and the LS at this stage is so well sorted out, this is a car you could easily put 150k miles on and not even think twice about. Your 600 would be a car I would not keep out of warranty. This however I would.
4. Yes 13-17 460 prices may take a hit, but your 600 is going to take an equal hit, if not steeper as it gets older and buyers get more and more nervous about the hybrid system. So if this is a car at some point you want, then now or later, the delta between your car and this car isn't going to change, and like I said you may *never* find a car like this particular car again. In 3 years, your 600 struggles to be a $10k car In would venture to say, and this is going to be ~ 40k...and it will have way more miles like I said if something similar can even be found.
Seriously...do it.
The price for the car seemed pretty high at first, but researching the "big 3" valuation sites shows the following:
KBB: $59,500
NADA: $62,775
Edmunds: $74,849 (wow...)
I do get a 5.5% sales tax benefit (on $21,300, total saved of $1170) if I trade my car in, so to sell it outright, I'd need to get more than $22,500 to make it worthwhile.
With the 7-8K miles per year I put on my LS, I could drive the 2014 for a LOT of years and the miles would still be very low. I definitely plan to trade my LS600 in at some point before the warranty expires... Decisions, decisions...
Thanks to all for the opinions!
05-18-17, 08:01 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
You make a good argument... It really is a "unicorn car" from all of my research, and I'm sure it was special ordered by the original purchaser, and he/she simply checked every single available box for options.
The price for the car seemed pretty high at first, but researching the "big 3" valuation sites shows the following:
KBB: $59,500
NADA: $62,775
Edmunds: $74,849 (wow...)
I do get a 5.5% sales tax benefit (on $21,300, total saved of $1170) if I trade my car in, so to sell it outright, I'd need to get more than $22,500 to make it worthwhile.
With the 7-8K miles per year I put on my LS, I could drive the 2014 for a LOT of years and the miles would still be very low. I definitely plan to trade my LS600 in at some point before the warranty expires... Decisions, decisions...
Thanks to all for the opinions!
The price for the car seemed pretty high at first, but researching the "big 3" valuation sites shows the following:
KBB: $59,500
NADA: $62,775
Edmunds: $74,849 (wow...)
I do get a 5.5% sales tax benefit (on $21,300, total saved of $1170) if I trade my car in, so to sell it outright, I'd need to get more than $22,500 to make it worthwhile.
With the 7-8K miles per year I put on my LS, I could drive the 2014 for a LOT of years and the miles would still be very low. I definitely plan to trade my LS600 in at some point before the warranty expires... Decisions, decisions...
Thanks to all for the opinions!
If I may add an alternative - knowing your trade value is $21,3k (and when I look on autotrader most LS600h's are going in the high $20s without a warranty), ASSUMING your VSA is transferrable, list it on Autotrader for...say $28k. If it sells, that allows you to move on the 2014. If it doesn't, hang onto it =).
As a side note, someone had posted on here that a dealer in VA was looking to sell a new 2016 F-Sport LS460 for $68k...of course without a lot of these options but a budget of the $60s does give you a lot of options for a LS460...
There is no doubt in my mind that for a price of $65k or so there is no better LS460L to be had than this one.
05-18-17, 12:05 PM
#28
I think Toyota hybrid batteries have proved themselves over the last 20 years. Sure, there are rare failures but they are the exception rather than the rule. We have a 2005 Prius with the original battery (12 years old) showing no signs of ill health. Same with our 2010 Prius. So if that is your main concern, I wouldn't let it weigh too heavy on your decision.
05-19-17, 02:23 PM
#29
It's fine that it's not for you, nobody is trying to convince you that it should be. If you want to buy cars, used or new and pay them off and keep them that's great. The issue whenever there's a thread where someone asks a question about leasing this happens, somebody comes in and off topic derides leasing by calling it "fleecing" (you didn't make that by the way R Z you've read Dave Ramsey books) and trying to otherwise say those of us who lease are stupid or uninformed or whatever. Its patronizing, rude and off topic.
Perhaps those of us who do lease or are interested in leasing, or people who have questions about a specific lease deal would like to discuss that without having it devolve into this ....every....damn....time.
When you guys post threads talking about buying old cars and negotiating deals, we don't post saying "you know you could lease a new one it'd be a lot smarter" do we? I don't understand buying a 5-10 year old car like an LS for $20-30k, I think that's silly and Not something I can wrap my head around but that's me, not you. Pay us the same courtesy is all I'm saying.
Perhaps those of us who do lease or are interested in leasing, or people who have questions about a specific lease deal would like to discuss that without having it devolve into this ....every....damn....time.
When you guys post threads talking about buying old cars and negotiating deals, we don't post saying "you know you could lease a new one it'd be a lot smarter" do we? I don't understand buying a 5-10 year old car like an LS for $20-30k, I think that's silly and Not something I can wrap my head around but that's me, not you. Pay us the same courtesy is all I'm saying.
You now think buying quality used cars for good deals is "silly" ?
Last edited by Nospinzone; 05-19-17 at 02:46 PM. Reason: too personal
05-19-17, 02:40 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
As I've suggested to you before, if you don't want to read what I post put me on your ignore list. I'm quite confident that the bulk of the folks in the LS forum appreciate my input, if you don't...ignore away.
The issue is that this has happened here for a long time, its not just this one post. Whenever people post a question about leasing somebody always comes along and tries to run down leasing or patronize the people who lease by posting sound bites from anti-leasing financial gurus. Its tiresome, and it keeps those of us that do lease from having meaningful discussions about leasing. Whenever we try and discuss a specific deal, etc it devolves into a back and forth about whether one should lease or not, which is off of the topic.
I personally think its silly to spend $25,000 on a car as old and high mileage as an LS460 would be to reach that price, yes. I think at that age one's money is better spent on a newer car of lesser caliber. I put my money where my mouth is, I had two ES sedans in my life that I bought new vs used LS's because the LS wasn't within my reach at the time. I only posted that in response to what was said about leasing being silly. If I posted my thoughts in every thread where people here discussed deals on old LS460s that would be as patronizing and off topic as it is to bring this discussion to the point where its about leasing vs buying. His question was about that particular deal, not leasing in general.
The reason I feel that way about the used LS460s is the potential for repairs. I see people buying LS460s that are already 8-10 years old, getting financing and IMHO thats foolish, its too old a car to be procuring that way I think. People expect them to be as reliable and inexpensive to repair as any other $25k car and thats not realistic. What you hate to see happen is somebody driving one and have a big repair they have to fork money over for on a car they're still making payments on. Thats why you'll notice when people ask about buying one that old vs a newer car I do post and point out that they should be prepared for repairs.
I'm not a used car guy, which is okay as long as I don't constantly post off topic in threads where people are discussing valuing and purchasing used cars admonishing them for doing so. Its the same with leasing, you and others may not be leasing guys, and thats okay just don't post off topic in threads where people are discussing leasing admonishing us for doing so.
The issue is that this has happened here for a long time, its not just this one post. Whenever people post a question about leasing somebody always comes along and tries to run down leasing or patronize the people who lease by posting sound bites from anti-leasing financial gurus. Its tiresome, and it keeps those of us that do lease from having meaningful discussions about leasing. Whenever we try and discuss a specific deal, etc it devolves into a back and forth about whether one should lease or not, which is off of the topic.
I personally think its silly to spend $25,000 on a car as old and high mileage as an LS460 would be to reach that price, yes. I think at that age one's money is better spent on a newer car of lesser caliber. I put my money where my mouth is, I had two ES sedans in my life that I bought new vs used LS's because the LS wasn't within my reach at the time. I only posted that in response to what was said about leasing being silly. If I posted my thoughts in every thread where people here discussed deals on old LS460s that would be as patronizing and off topic as it is to bring this discussion to the point where its about leasing vs buying. His question was about that particular deal, not leasing in general.
The reason I feel that way about the used LS460s is the potential for repairs. I see people buying LS460s that are already 8-10 years old, getting financing and IMHO thats foolish, its too old a car to be procuring that way I think. People expect them to be as reliable and inexpensive to repair as any other $25k car and thats not realistic. What you hate to see happen is somebody driving one and have a big repair they have to fork money over for on a car they're still making payments on. Thats why you'll notice when people ask about buying one that old vs a newer car I do post and point out that they should be prepared for repairs.
I'm not a used car guy, which is okay as long as I don't constantly post off topic in threads where people are discussing valuing and purchasing used cars admonishing them for doing so. Its the same with leasing, you and others may not be leasing guys, and thats okay just don't post off topic in threads where people are discussing leasing admonishing us for doing so.
Last edited by SW17LS; 05-19-17 at 03:03 PM. Reason: edited quote
