This I agreed, the TT 430 hp car makes a tons more torque at much lower rpm, so it does feels way more torquey then the NA 380 hp.

This I don't agreed at all. The 460 only feels marginally quicker then the 430, both being NA, the 460 only makes 47 lb-ft more that peak at 700 higher rpm. But the 460 weight 400~600 lbs more in curb weight depending on wheelbase. The 8-speeds made the biggest difference, but it only feels a hair quicker. The 0-60 mph time agreed with my butt feeling, the 460 is only a few tens quicker to 60 mph.

Definitely

 

AWD launch baby

Watch out street racer, that big barge can smoke you

 

Lexus Reveals the Bold New 2013 LS

 

Gotta go with some of the other Club Members, the front grill really isn't working on this car, the GS or the ES. I don't know why Lexus has to follow a common design theme. I just got my ES last year, and while it is not the most exciting car in the world, it is very smooth, and dependable, which is the reason I chose the ES over others, including the BMW. I will have to think long and hard before I consider another ES or other Lexus with this new look.

 

This grill restyling across the board is only a bit this side of Edsel-ugly. Whoever thought it up and approved it should be fired. It will NOT help sales. And this talk about what the LS is "supposed" to be is beside the point. There should be a V-8 option for the GS and ES. Not just some trim package to make it "handle" sportier.

As for V-6 vs V-8, give me a break! The claim that a V-6 can approach a V-8 is laughable. I don't care what the numbers are. Anyone who has owned a V-8 knows that in terms of natural power that doesn't need tricking out and in terms of smooth and silky elegance, comparing a V-6 to a V-8 downright offensive.

Sure, Lexus has an under-powered V-8 block they stick in the SUVs and the LS, but MB just came out with a fantastic new bi-turbo V-8, and both they and BMW have V-8 versions of most of their models. That Lexus can only answer these two with an uglified front-end meant to make it look like an Audi wannabe is tragic.

Given my experience with its wonderful quality and workmanship, if Lexus came out with a righteous V-8 sport sedan -- GS or ES -- then i'd snap it up in an instant. Too bad they seem to be going in this bogus direction.

 

other factors driving a v6 in flagships is taxation around the world is often based on engine size and cylinders, plus govt regs on economy/emissions.

i think it's a bigger niche than the niche for those who want a hotrod big sedan. one of the great things about a big luxurious sedan is isolation in traffic, and highway cruising comfort. you don't need gobs of power for either.

agreed.

i've read this before from you and i don't understand how it hurts lexus. acura's never been in that league (and is unlikely to ever be), and infiniti has never had any success with a high end sedan, so the 'problem' isn't new, and the situation is unlikely to change.

absolutely.

well as you wrote, there's a ton of different models, so the LS alone is basically competing with a dozen or so great models from europe.

given the prohibitive price of lexus in europe (i guess import tariffs is the issue?), it's very hard for lexus to compete there, and it's probably hard for toyota/lexus to justify a massive r&d effort to create a wide range of ls models. and as we know, bmw/mb/audi leverage their r&d budget because they also sell 'economy' versions of even 5/7/s/e/8/6/etc. in the uk, the 520d sells like hotcakes. my good friend over there has one and i've been in it a few times. it's pretty spartan but it surprisingly quick, and has great fuel economy.

 

How can the likes of Acura ever compete? I hope that brand goes under.

 

I don't think they will, have u seen the new nsx. That's not a bad look car for Acura.

 

I'm spoiled with my LS430.
To get the same size car, do I have to go long wheel base?
And have I really lost the touch screen, oscillating louver vents and rear window sun screen?

Am I off to S class?

 

well s class doesn't have oscillating vents and touch screen too right?

 

You seen the 2013 RLX? Complete ripoff of the LS 600 headlights. The NSX will be a great vehicle but it wont bring the brand up. Think of it as Nissan with their GTR

 

I am spoiled with my LS430 too.

Long wheel base just provide more rear seat leg room, the LS430 will always feels more spacious up top due to the boxy dimension. Which is what I love the most about the LS430 that no new car can provide (except the Phantom). So even though the LS430 looks a little dated now, it is still superior in many ways compare to the latest models.

Yes no more touch screen that I absolutely love. No more cool oscillating louver vents. Rear window sun screen is still there.

New S-Class is the same thing, you have to go back to the W140 S-Class to get a German LS430.

 

I test drove the Jag too I was't impressed ... I like the smoothness of the LS.