larger calipers on LS460L touring
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From: CA
larger calipers on LS460L touring
I didn't bother getting the touring package on my car when I bought it because my car had air suspension and I thought the only difference was the wheels (I already planned to get bigger wheels). I realized the touring has bigger brakes now, and I'm curious if all I need to do is to get larger rotors in order to get the touring package brake setup.
pls advise if I have the same calipers and I just need to change the rotors, or if there's more to it.
thanks
pls advise if I have the same calipers and I just need to change the rotors, or if there's more to it.
thanks
the calipers on the touring are the same as normal i believe, the rotors are bigger. but what i don't know is if the touring has a different hub/bracket design thus the calipers are sitting further away from the center of the hub?
i remember there are a few lexus tech here maybe they can chime in?
i remember there are a few lexus tech here maybe they can chime in?
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
The calipers are larger, more pistons. The brake pads are ceramic. The rotors are larger and the tire and wheel is larger with a lower profile. The brakes are phenomenal.
I have that option on my car. I believe when the factory referrers to the touring package is more than just the air suspension, it's also the tire and brake package. I had it special ordered. They also refer to it as a California car because the only tires it comes with are summer. I have not checked in a year but when last checked no all seasons were made for that rim.
I have that option on my car. I believe when the factory referrers to the touring package is more than just the air suspension, it's also the tire and brake package. I had it special ordered. They also refer to it as a California car because the only tires it comes with are summer. I have not checked in a year but when last checked no all seasons were made for that rim.
The calipers are larger, more pistons. The brake pads are ceramic. The rotors are larger and the tire and wheel is larger with a lower profile. The brakes are phenomenal.
I have that option on my car. I believe when the factory referrers to the touring package is more than just the air suspension, it's also the tire and brake package. I had it special ordered. They also refer to it as a California car because the only tires it comes with are summer. I have not checked in a year but when last checked no all seasons were made for that rim.
I have that option on my car. I believe when the factory referrers to the touring package is more than just the air suspension, it's also the tire and brake package. I had it special ordered. They also refer to it as a California car because the only tires it comes with are summer. I have not checked in a year but when last checked no all seasons were made for that rim.
Brakes
Brakes Four-wheel power-assisted disc brakes [9]
Anti-lock Braking (ABS) Four-sensor, four-channel
Braking Assist Brake Assist [10]
Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD)
Discs, Front (in) 13.1-in ventilated, power assisted [9]
14.1-in ventilated, power assisted [9] (with available Touring Package)
Optional
Discs, Rear (in) 12.4-in ventilated, power assisted [9]
13.2-in ventilated, power assisted [9] (with available Touring Package)
Optional
spec from lexus. there is nothing about caliper pistons being different
Brakes Four-wheel power-assisted disc brakes [9]
Anti-lock Braking (ABS) Four-sensor, four-channel
Braking Assist Brake Assist [10]
Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD)
Discs, Front (in) 13.1-in ventilated, power assisted [9]
14.1-in ventilated, power assisted [9] (with available Touring Package)
Optional
Discs, Rear (in) 12.4-in ventilated, power assisted [9]
13.2-in ventilated, power assisted [9] (with available Touring Package)
Optional
spec from lexus. there is nothing about caliper pistons being different
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 26
From: Sakon Nakhon
Also, I have the 19" wheels, and the tires are Bridgestone EL42 All-Seasons. Ceramic pads? 
Dunno 'bout dat...
Dunno 'bout dat...
From Tirerack's Website: The Turanza EL42 is a Grand Touring All-Season tire designed for sports sedans, sports coupes and selected SUVs. It was developed to blend some of the looks and handling of a performance tire with the low noise and ride comfort associated with a passenger tire, as well as provide year round traction, even in light snow.
On the outside, the Turanza EL42 features a symmetric tread design with lateral and circumferential tread grooves aligned to evacuate water out from under the tire's footprint to enhance wet traction and reduce hydroplaning. The resulting rectangular tread blocks are siped to provide additional snow biting edges and are combined with an all-season tread compound to provide traction on dry, wet and light snow-covered roads. Internally, the Turanza EL42 features twin steel belts reinforced by spirally wrapped nylon to stabilize the tread area and enhance treadwear, handling and high-speed capability. The Turanza EL42 features a polyester cord body to provide a smooth ride.
On the outside, the Turanza EL42 features a symmetric tread design with lateral and circumferential tread grooves aligned to evacuate water out from under the tire's footprint to enhance wet traction and reduce hydroplaning. The resulting rectangular tread blocks are siped to provide additional snow biting edges and are combined with an all-season tread compound to provide traction on dry, wet and light snow-covered roads. Internally, the Turanza EL42 features twin steel belts reinforced by spirally wrapped nylon to stabilize the tread area and enhance treadwear, handling and high-speed capability. The Turanza EL42 features a polyester cord body to provide a smooth ride.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
Do you have a 600? our wheels are different. Again when my car came out in 07 they did not have all seasons, they may have now. Like i said I have not looked into this in about a year or so.
Yes, I have the package with ceramic pads. There is a TSIB for the clunk in rev when you step on the brakes. It give a different part number for ceramic pads.
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Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
i questioned you when you first posted, but you didn't reply. your info aren't correct as far as i know. the caliper for both brakes are 4 pistons, you do not have 6 pistons brakes on your touring package. if you have pics of your caliper pistons, please post. i have looked at normal and touring brakes (on the car) side by side, their caliper size look the same
If you logically think about it you say the touring package you think has larger rotors. You can't run the same calipers...1 it will not fit. 2 you would not gain anything with the same caliper on a larger rotor. The rotor is larger to accommodate a larger caliper.
I kept in tune with this option because I wanted it to perform on par with the BMW I just traded in for it. In my opinion that is the weak point with Lexus and has been reported in every test report, the stock brakes and suspension.
Last edited by garyr; Jan 19, 2009 at 05:40 PM.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 26
From: Sakon Nakhon
Do you have a 600? our wheels are different. Again when my car came out in 07 they did not have all seasons, they may have now. Like i said I have not looked into this in about a year or so.
Yes, I have the package with ceramic pads. There is a TSIB for the clunk in rev when you step on the brakes. It give a different part number for ceramic pads.
Yes, I have the package with ceramic pads. There is a TSIB for the clunk in rev when you step on the brakes. It give a different part number for ceramic pads.
Last edited by Johnny; Jan 20, 2009 at 09:08 AM.
I never knew I was questioned ... but I'll try and give you the answer. I will take a picture of my caliper tomorrow and post it. I definitely remember when I ordered this package it has larger brakes. Larger rotors, larger calipers with ceramic pads.
If you logically think about it you say the touring package you think has larger rotors. You can't run the same calipers...1 it will not fit. 2 you would not gain anything with the same caliper on a larger rotor. The rotor is larger to accommodate a larger caliper.
I kept in tune with this option because I wanted it to perform on par with the BMW I just traded in for it. In my opinion that is the weak point with Lexus and has been reported in every test report, the stock brakes and suspension.
If you logically think about it you say the touring package you think has larger rotors. You can't run the same calipers...1 it will not fit. 2 you would not gain anything with the same caliper on a larger rotor. The rotor is larger to accommodate a larger caliper.
I kept in tune with this option because I wanted it to perform on par with the BMW I just traded in for it. In my opinion that is the weak point with Lexus and has been reported in every test report, the stock brakes and suspension.
just think of a spinning disc, would it be easier for you to stop it by grabbing the outside of it, or using the same force and press very close to the center? the answer is trivial.
even if the calipers are sitting at the exact same location, larger rotor can still help performance, coz' it has more area and thus distribute and dissipate heat faster, which is one of the main enemies of braking.
i said the calipers are the same, but not necessarily the bracket or the hub design. those are factors that decide how far out the calipers are. looking at brake companies like brembo, ap racing, stoptech, endless, project u, they only have that many caliper designs out there, but they have applications for so many designs. it's all done by the magic of bracket design, deciding the location of the caliper including distance away from hub
if you take picture of the caliper, take off the wheel and also remove the pads, and take picture of the inside of the caliper where it shows the number of pistons. that will give us the answer. i still believe it's 4 pot, 2 on each side of the caliper
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
I know your passonite about this post but I'm not going to take off my tire and capliers. Your lucky you got me out at 17 degrees to take the time and take these and post theese photos.....I'm very busy dude. Maybe someone with a stock or non optioned 460 can take a picture of there brake caliper and post it. Barnaby not you....I belive the 600 have these brakes as standard. rominl, if I remeber you don't own this car to take a picture of yours right?
I put a call into the Lex shop forman, great guy and asked him if he could explane the difference in calipers. When he gets back to me I will post his reply.
it's not entirely correct. the rotors are larger that's for sure, but the caliper can be the same and it will improve performance. braking power is a matter of rotational torque, which is force x distance. even with the same caliper (force), if the distance is longer (further away from center), the amount of tq applied is larger.
just think of a spinning disc, would it be easier for you to stop it by grabbing the outside of it, or using the same force and press very close to the center? the answer is trivial.
even if the calipers are sitting at the exact same location, larger rotor can still help performance, coz' it has more area and thus distribute and dissipate heat faster, which is one of the main enemies of braking.
just think of a spinning disc, would it be easier for you to stop it by grabbing the outside of it, or using the same force and press very close to the center? the answer is trivial.
even if the calipers are sitting at the exact same location, larger rotor can still help performance, coz' it has more area and thus distribute and dissipate heat faster, which is one of the main enemies of braking.
Tire and wheel 2007 LS460L Touring-summer tires.
Best I can do, close up of the caliper...sorry for the dirty wheels..
The calipers I have are over 14 inches long probably 15 something.
Barnaby, I hope these are the same as yours that way I can get A/S tires.
lol well, without going there, we won't know for sure right? maybe the foreman can give us more inside as well, that'd be a good reference point. i sold my car long ago already, otherwise i can also take some pics
and come on, i thought you'd have a heated garage!
and come on, i thought you'd have a heated garage!
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
I think if someone would grab there camera phone and take a quick pic you will clearly see the size
difference. Mike in TX you out there?? If someone wants to email me the picture I will post it, just PM me and I'll give you my email address. Yes, the shop foreman usually answers my emails in a few days or so. I'm also scheduled to go to the dealer in a week for the fuel rail recall so I'll get more info there and get some pics.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 26
From: Sakon Nakhon
These OEM brake pads are for the 460:
I could not find any reference to the 460L, or the 600, or if there is any difference between each others' pads. Nor could I determine if the material is organic or ceramic. I intend to visit a dealer this week to check on the oil filter for the 600. I'll bring my camera along, get part numbers and take pics of the pads and the calipers, if there are any available.
Lexus OEM Front Brake Pads, designed to minimize brake squeal, are ventilated disc brakes that help to reduce brake fade and dissipate heat effectively. The generously sized front brakes (13.1in.) enhance driver steering control during hard or emergency braking. Lexus front brakes are recommended to be replaced when there is 3mm left on the brake pad. It is also recommended that the Shim Kit and Fit Kit are replaced at the same time as the Front Brake Pads.
The Lexus fitting kit is the brake hardware used to provide proper fitment with individual brake pads to the caliper and bracket. Brake fit kits are usually replaced at the time of brake pad replacement but are considered to be optional based on wear and inspection. The fit kit is a key component to the braking system.
I could not find any reference to the 460L, or the 600, or if there is any difference between each others' pads. Nor could I determine if the material is organic or ceramic. I intend to visit a dealer this week to check on the oil filter for the 600. I'll bring my camera along, get part numbers and take pics of the pads and the calipers, if there are any available.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: NJ
Barnaby this is the TSIB about the brake pad squeal. It applies to the 460's http://www.lambros.net/tsib/2007LS/L-BR005-06.pdf
You don't replace the pads on the touring model so they did not list part numbers but you can see the reference to high friction pads used on the touring package.
I had the TISB done and they replaced my pads with a new design I was told. So I just dug up the repair order and this should be the part number 08887-80609 their is another part number check this one 04465-0W110
The 08887 part number my just be a caliper, I just now read the work order, never read it when I had it done but the poor work up shows they may have changed one caliper as well.
You don't replace the pads on the touring model so they did not list part numbers but you can see the reference to high friction pads used on the touring package.
I had the TISB done and they replaced my pads with a new design I was told. So I just dug up the repair order and this should be the part number 08887-80609 their is another part number check this one 04465-0W110
The 08887 part number my just be a caliper, I just now read the work order, never read it when I had it done but the poor work up shows they may have changed one caliper as well.