LS460 Wind Noise Fix (continued discussion)
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
Wind Noise
bc07
Thank you for clearing up about what broke off. I knew it was something but it fell into the door. I had put all that stuff back on before I started writing about what I did and I just surmised that it was some sort of locking device.
Your idea about the black sealant is excellent. I chose the clear (clear is really not clear, it is milky) because it is readily available but the color doesn't affect the properties and the black would definitely be better cosmetically if any shows around the edges.
I am glad you got good results. I am just so happy with my car now it is hard to quit crowing. Forgive me! It really is a relief to get past that. I wanted a Lexus and I wanted an LS460 but I was not going to be able to live that problem.
I am confident that others will soon report good results too.
Thanks again for helping us with this.
Jeff
Thank you for clearing up about what broke off. I knew it was something but it fell into the door. I had put all that stuff back on before I started writing about what I did and I just surmised that it was some sort of locking device.
Your idea about the black sealant is excellent. I chose the clear (clear is really not clear, it is milky) because it is readily available but the color doesn't affect the properties and the black would definitely be better cosmetically if any shows around the edges.
I am glad you got good results. I am just so happy with my car now it is hard to quit crowing. Forgive me! It really is a relief to get past that. I wanted a Lexus and I wanted an LS460 but I was not going to be able to live that problem.
I am confident that others will soon report good results too.
Thanks again for helping us with this.
Jeff
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 557
Likes: 2
From: Midwest
jmacraney, you are incredible to everyone but the arrogant Lexus Headquarters. I will let everyone know how it goes for me with this triangle fix. I may not be able to get this done until Tuesday or Wednesday of this week at the local Lexus dealer. I have all the detailed information from you printed out so that there will be NO misunderstanding as to exactly how the job is to be done. Everyone should keep in mind that I do not have a major wind noise problem. However, I have a feeling that my car will be even more quiet (little or no swishing sound) than it is now after this simple fix.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,067
Likes: 456
From: Pennsylvania
I hope that Lexus gets up to speed on this. I am not a do it yourselfer. And my car is "quiet enough" that I have not really worried about the little noise that I do hear...just assumed it was normal. That being said, once they are willing to do the jimacraney fix (and not give him credit, I am sure), I'll get it done to see if the car becomes even more quiet.
Somewhat tangentially related this this discussion....I can't tell you how many times I've gotten out of the car and have forgotten to shut the engine until it starts the warning dings start. Because I can't hear it running!
Somewhat tangentially related this this discussion....I can't tell you how many times I've gotten out of the car and have forgotten to shut the engine until it starts the warning dings start. Because I can't hear it running!
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 557
Likes: 2
From: Midwest
Here is the latest. I just got back from the dealer after the triangle fix procedure. Unfortunately, I still hear a swishing sound. It's hard to tell but, it may be slightly less than before. However, I am pretty sure that the exterior noise/sounds is less than before. The service manager, was going to go ahead and do the seal kit fix (whatever that is). The door panels need to come off for this procedure. I told him to hold off on it until I see what the triangle fix does first. Thus, I just made an appointment to bring it in next Monday to do the seal kit fix. The service manager explained to me that the window seals properly when fully closed with this fix. This may be my problem (mainly on the driver's side window). I noticed when driving home from the dealer that when I lower the window just a fraction (and I mean fraction) of an inch the swishing sound diminishes.
jmcraney, et all, is it possible that I have reduced exterior noise with the triangle fix, but still have the swishing wind sound? To me this might make sense since those holes inside the triangle cover are now sealed very well so that I get less exterior noise. But, my swishing sound at the top of the window may have had nothing to do with a "triangle problem". What do you think?
jmcraney, et all, is it possible that I have reduced exterior noise with the triangle fix, but still have the swishing wind sound? To me this might make sense since those holes inside the triangle cover are now sealed very well so that I get less exterior noise. But, my swishing sound at the top of the window may have had nothing to do with a "triangle problem". What do you think?
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
Wind Noise
PatsSoxFan,
Thank you for your report. I suggest that you drive your car for a few days and then before you have the next work done, give us another assessment of the changes, if any, that you have sensed. I will explain later.
Thank you for your report. I suggest that you drive your car for a few days and then before you have the next work done, give us another assessment of the changes, if any, that you have sensed. I will explain later.
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 467
Likes: 2
From: MD
PatsSoxFan,
What you are describing is a know issue and I can assure you that once TSIB is performed, lowering a window just a bit, will not change the swishing sound. If everything goes as well as anticipated, you should have no wind noise at all post the TSIB. Unfortunately, some of us, like me, are not as lucky. I have 460 LWB and have had all TSIB's and triangle fix performed and are still having the wind noise issue. Oh well, maybe it's time to move on.
What you are describing is a know issue and I can assure you that once TSIB is performed, lowering a window just a bit, will not change the swishing sound. If everything goes as well as anticipated, you should have no wind noise at all post the TSIB. Unfortunately, some of us, like me, are not as lucky. I have 460 LWB and have had all TSIB's and triangle fix performed and are still having the wind noise issue. Oh well, maybe it's time to move on.
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
There was an oversight in my original assessment in that I failed to detect and point out a large gap (.040) that could be a major leak source. The sealant bead pattern that I recommended covered that but only accidently and barely. If you failed to get the bead tall enough or it was forward of that .040 gap then you left that air source open. The sealant pattern recommendation picture that has REV A in the lower right corner takes care of this. I did not make that change until after your car was worked on. I apologize for the confusion.
If you have exhausted all other possibilities and still want to try something this is something to try. In one of the post, #54 above, I suggested using blue masking tape. You could give that a try. It is fairly easy to do and might give you some confidence that everything under the triangle-trim is completely sealed.
You didn't mention if your problem is bilateral. If it is just one side then you would only need to tape the offending side. If it is bilateral then I would tape both sides at the same time to get a fair assessment.
If you have exhausted all other possibilities and still want to try something this is something to try. In one of the post, #54 above, I suggested using blue masking tape. You could give that a try. It is fairly easy to do and might give you some confidence that everything under the triangle-trim is completely sealed.
You didn't mention if your problem is bilateral. If it is just one side then you would only need to tape the offending side. If it is bilateral then I would tape both sides at the same time to get a fair assessment.
Last edited by jmcraney; May 7, 2008 at 07:49 PM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 557
Likes: 2
From: Midwest
Here is an and update after driving the car for a couple days after the "triangle fix". On my post above, I indicated that I believed the car was more quiet from exterior noises. I now have no doubt that I indeed hear less exterior noises following the triangle fix. I hardly hear passing vehicles any more. That was not the case before. Thus, even though the triangle fix did not do any good for the swishing type sound on top of the window, it definitely helped with exterior noises. I talked to the service manager about this and he stated that it makes sense since those holes/gaps are now very well sealed from the exterior.
It is now obvious that my wind swishing sound had nothing to do with the triangle problem but very likely is related to the improper sealing up on top of the window. I am certain that this has happened over time. I don't believe, I was having this problem when the car was brand new back in late December. I am looking forward to fixing this little problem on Monday. Mike_TX, etc., I no longer think that this swishing type sound is normal and it is not necessarily caused by turbulence of rushing air. I think it is something that can be fixed as well.
dimapb, I really feel bad for you. At the very least, please make sure you follow jmcraney's advice to see if your dealer performed the triangle fix properly.
It is now obvious that my wind swishing sound had nothing to do with the triangle problem but very likely is related to the improper sealing up on top of the window. I am certain that this has happened over time. I don't believe, I was having this problem when the car was brand new back in late December. I am looking forward to fixing this little problem on Monday. Mike_TX, etc., I no longer think that this swishing type sound is normal and it is not necessarily caused by turbulence of rushing air. I think it is something that can be fixed as well.
dimapb, I really feel bad for you. At the very least, please make sure you follow jmcraney's advice to see if your dealer performed the triangle fix properly.
Last edited by PatsSoxfan; May 9, 2008 at 02:00 PM.
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Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 446
Likes: 1
From: Golden, CO
PatsSoxFan,
What you are describing is a know issue and I can assure you that once TSIB is performed, lowering a window just a bit, will not change the swishing sound. If everything goes as well as anticipated, you should have no wind noise at all post the TSIB. Unfortunately, some of us, like me, are not as lucky. I have 460 LWB and have had all TSIB's and triangle fix performed and are still having the wind noise issue. Oh well, maybe it's time to move on.
What you are describing is a know issue and I can assure you that once TSIB is performed, lowering a window just a bit, will not change the swishing sound. If everything goes as well as anticipated, you should have no wind noise at all post the TSIB. Unfortunately, some of us, like me, are not as lucky. I have 460 LWB and have had all TSIB's and triangle fix performed and are still having the wind noise issue. Oh well, maybe it's time to move on.
I took my '08 in Wednesday for the wind noise and the 1000 mile checkup.
They say they installed the noise 'kit' #6817150010 or 670994.
No big difference. Took it back two days later. While waiting I asked my salesman if he had another '08 I could drive for a comparo. He found one with 50 miles on it. Wife and I took a drive out on the 75 MPH freeway and both of us felt this car was definitely quieter than ours.
Went for rides with Service Manager and Lead tech... they said my car was quieter than the comparo car...yeah right.
They also said this noise began with the body change in '07. So they are obviously aware there is a problem. They never mentioned the triangle part issue.
Tech said the noise kit was all they could do. They said call customer svc, did so. While the gal taking the call was most courteous I got the feeling that when the 'hot dog' calls back it will be a '****** you very much' call.
Whit
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 467
Likes: 2
From: MD
I took my '08 in Wednesday for the wind noise and the 1000 mile checkup.
They say they installed the noise 'kit' #6817150010 or 670994.
No big difference. Took it back two days later. While waiting I asked my salesman if he had another '08 I could drive for a comparo. He found one with 50 miles on it. Wife and I took a drive out on the 75 MPH freeway and both of us felt this car was definitely quieter than ours.
Went for rides with Service Manager and Lead tech... they said my car was quieter than the comparo car...yeah right.
They also said this noise began with the body change in '07. So they are obviously aware there is a problem. They never mentioned the triangle part issue.
Tech said the noise kit was all they could do. They said call customer svc, did so. While the gal taking the call was most courteous I got the feeling that when the 'hot dog' calls back it will be a '****** you very much' call.
Whit
They say they installed the noise 'kit' #6817150010 or 670994.
No big difference. Took it back two days later. While waiting I asked my salesman if he had another '08 I could drive for a comparo. He found one with 50 miles on it. Wife and I took a drive out on the 75 MPH freeway and both of us felt this car was definitely quieter than ours.
Went for rides with Service Manager and Lead tech... they said my car was quieter than the comparo car...yeah right.
They also said this noise began with the body change in '07. So they are obviously aware there is a problem. They never mentioned the triangle part issue.
Tech said the noise kit was all they could do. They said call customer svc, did so. While the gal taking the call was most courteous I got the feeling that when the 'hot dog' calls back it will be a '****** you very much' call.
Whit
You have couple of options here...
1. You can request that Lexus FSR comes out to inspect your car and make additional repairs, if need be.
2. You can call back Customer Service and initiate a buy-back. Lexus is trying to keep it quite and therefore will repurchase your car.
I personally think you need to give your service department an opportunity to do all they can to improve the condition and once they have exhausted all options, you can pursue the buy-back option. My Service manager had no issues performing the triangle fix free of charge. He is willing to do anything to remedy the problem. Not sure if he was told by Lexus to do so, or just a nice guy, but we do have a pretty good SM - customer relationship.
Dmitry
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
Dmitry,
The first sealing directions that I posted were flawed. If it didn't produce any improvement or made things worse then I think it was because of my error and not because the technician didn't do it right.
I am almost certain that doing it like I suggested in the recommendation that has the REV A in the lower right corner will produce noticeable results.
If you used the sealant that I suggested it will not be very difficult to get off, clean up and redo. I suggest using a sharpened wooden paint stirrer stick as a cleanup tool or plastic caulk trimmer (funny looking little red thing). Neither of those things will scratch the chrome or plastic.
It only takes about 10 minutes to take it off, clean up and reseal it.
Jeff
The first sealing directions that I posted were flawed. If it didn't produce any improvement or made things worse then I think it was because of my error and not because the technician didn't do it right.
I am almost certain that doing it like I suggested in the recommendation that has the REV A in the lower right corner will produce noticeable results.
If you used the sealant that I suggested it will not be very difficult to get off, clean up and redo. I suggest using a sharpened wooden paint stirrer stick as a cleanup tool or plastic caulk trimmer (funny looking little red thing). Neither of those things will scratch the chrome or plastic.
It only takes about 10 minutes to take it off, clean up and reseal it.
Jeff
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
jmcraney, for those looking to do the triangular fix, which posts are the full set of directions? The first page of this thread can be edited to indicate the latest, most updated set of instructions. Thanks for your contributions!
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
PatsSoxfan,
If anyone is wondering about my cryptic request to give us a report after you were able to drive the car for a few days:
The reason I responded that way is because the first time I drove my car after I did the sealing, I was focused on wind noise and it was not a particularly windy day and I was not really sure that I had made a significant improvement. The second time I drove it after that I sensed that the improvement was quite good. After driving it several more times in more severe noise and wind environments I knew that the improvement was really stunning. It was not just the wind noise – the car was much quieter overall, even when it was sitting still or going 40 or 60. That didn’t come to me instantly the first time I drove it but it is apparent to me now every time I drive my car. I indicated several times my opinion about what provides that improvement but I still remain unsure as how what I did provides that great improvement. I wanted to wait and see if PatsSoxfan perceived that sort of improvement with out planting that seed in his mind and thus biasing his input.
You might give us another report in a few days after you have driven your car some more.
If anyone is wondering about my cryptic request to give us a report after you were able to drive the car for a few days:
The reason I responded that way is because the first time I drove my car after I did the sealing, I was focused on wind noise and it was not a particularly windy day and I was not really sure that I had made a significant improvement. The second time I drove it after that I sensed that the improvement was quite good. After driving it several more times in more severe noise and wind environments I knew that the improvement was really stunning. It was not just the wind noise – the car was much quieter overall, even when it was sitting still or going 40 or 60. That didn’t come to me instantly the first time I drove it but it is apparent to me now every time I drive my car. I indicated several times my opinion about what provides that improvement but I still remain unsure as how what I did provides that great improvement. I wanted to wait and see if PatsSoxfan perceived that sort of improvement with out planting that seed in his mind and thus biasing his input.
You might give us another report in a few days after you have driven your car some more.
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 310
From: TX
There are no retaining clips. That was my mistake, bco7 pointed that out in a previous reply. The back of the trim piece has 3 registration pins, one rectangular, one square and one round. The registration pins are used to insure that the piece is properly aligned before the mounting tape makes contact. Depending on how you pry it off you might break the round registration pin off. You will never be able to tell when you put it back on. bc07 also pointed that if you start prying from the side that is toward the rear you will probably have to reach under and sever the white mounting tape with something. And he also pointed out that using black sealant would be better. Nothing much shows but black would be better if you have it. Please use the sealing recommendations that are in the picture that has REV A in the lower right corner.
Last edited by jmcraney; May 10, 2008 at 02:00 PM.