2004 not keeping alignment, slight 'clunk' in parking lots, unrelated vibration?
07-03-18, 05:07 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
2004 not keeping alignment, slight 'clunk' in parking lots, unrelated vibration?
I hate to give you guys a novel again, but I feel a little back story will help to weed out some questions/suggestions that are likely to be made. I'll try to make it as brief as possible...
Pertinent to the timeline of events: I'm out of town on business a lot of the time so some of the shop visits described below were taken care of by my girlfriend who drives the car to work every day when I'm not home.
Car is a 2004 with sport suspension, 140k miles - I'm sure my brake vibration and alignment/suspension issues are unrelated, but the timeline and some details overlap so I'm not making two separate threads.
Mid-April - I came home to find that my sightly warped front brake rotors had gotten worse and I wanted to address them. I brought my car to a Les Schwab tire center to have just the front brake rotors re-surfaced (pads had plenty of meat on them still)... but the rotors were too thin and needed to be replaced. Not wanting to wait for OEM rotors to be mailed after ordering online like I normally do, I opted to pay them to replace the rotors on the spot (the first and only time that I've put a non-OEM part on my car). Braking was smooth as silk afterwards. I'm told they use Raybestos rotors.
End of April - I ordered a set of 4 Michelin Premiers from Costco when I was home getting the brake rotors replaced. I was out of town a few days later when they came in so I had my girlfriend handle the tire install at Costco, then immediately drive the car across the street to the same Les Schwab that replaced my rotors to have an alignment done. I came home randomly for a day about a week later and drove the car for a little bit. All was well... car drove straight and smooth, no issues to be reported.
Mid-June, (I've been home since and I'm the only one driving the car) I noticed the car is pulling to the right (if you let go of the wheel) and the steering wheel isn't centered (slightly to the left) when forcing it to drive straight on the highway - the car goes right when you center the wheel. In addition, I again have a noticeable vibration/pulsation when braking from highway speed. I asked my girlfriend how long the car has been doing this and was met with a blank stare... (She's the kind of person that could drive a car with 4 flat tires and not notice. She didn't even notice when my subwoofer completely stopped working a few months back lol).
June 25th - First I brought the car to a different indie shop with stellar reviews on Google and Yelp that I used a few months ago to replace an inner tie rod which the dealership missed on an inspection. Awesome guys at this place, definitely honest and knowledgeable. I have them re-align the car for $100 and double check the front suspension to see if there's any obvious reason why the alignment is so far out of whack after 2 months and only 1300 miles (girlfriend promises no large potholes were hit, and I believe her since none exist in our area). They can't find anything obviously wrong with the suspension and have no possible explanation as to why the left front toe was so far out. Aligned to within spec.
Last Wednesday June 27th - I brought the car to the Les Schwab that replaced my rotors and some kid brings my car into the bay to check it out while I stand outside the bay watching. He starts looking for anything else that could cause this vibration - first with the front wheels on, then takes the front wheels off. After a few minutes, he waves me in to look at a few things. He notes that there wasn't any play with the wheels on when pushing in the 12&6 or 3&9 positions. He claims that my front struts are leaking a little bit and need to be replaced soon... I looked at the struts and chuckled because they're definitely not leaking. While standing at the car, I check out the front brake pads - all 4 pads are evenly wearing and are of uniform thickness, none are dragging on the rotor. He spins the hubs with the wheels off and again with the wheels on, and notes that there is no play in them or bad sounds, but says that they spin "too freely" and that the wheels should stop spinning more quickly than they are. I end up taking the car without having the rotors resurfaced because he claims that my brake vibration could be caused by somewhat dirty brake fluid, wheel bearings spinning "too freely" and my "leaking" struts" lol. Clearly I need to bring this car to a different Les Schwab location and have someone competent work on the rotors.
The next day June 28th - I go to a different Les Schwab location and explain that my front rotors are warped and told him what the kid told me at their other location. The tech says "No problem, I'll take care of it". He checks out the car and doesn't find anything amiss with the suspension or anything else related to the vibration, but says the rotors are slightly warped and need to be resurfaced. An hour later, he tells me one rotor just needed one pass on the lathe to take the warp out, the other rotor required two passes on the lathe. Confident that I had solved my vibration issue, I left.
Within 5 minutes of leaving, I could still feel a slight vibration when braking from highway speed. Definitely a lot less noticeable than before, but still there - slight vibration in the steering wheel and slight pulsation in the brake pedal. Annoyed and frustrated, I didn't want to take another 1-2 hours out of my day going right back.
June 30th though present - My alignment is out again... in the exact same way it was out when I brought it to the indie shop on June 25th - pulls right and steering wheel isn't fully centered when going straight on the highway. I've also noticed a slight clunking sound when backing out of my parking spot at my apartment, and have heard it a handful of other times when maneuvering in parking lots in the last few days. From what I can gather, it happens when the car is rolling very slowly with steering wheel is turned all the way to lock. I haven't tested it enough to know if it only happens when I hit the brakes, or if it happens in forward as well as reverse.
Note:
TL;DR car won't keep an alignment and there's a slight clunking when turning in parking lots, have a brake vibration that won't go away even after having my brand new rotors resurfaced.
I have an appointment on Friday at the indie shop that did the alignment last week to see what they can figure out, I'm just trying to get some suggestions and hopefully a few things that I can check out for myself before bringing the car in.
Again, sorry for the novel
Pertinent to the timeline of events: I'm out of town on business a lot of the time so some of the shop visits described below were taken care of by my girlfriend who drives the car to work every day when I'm not home.
Car is a 2004 with sport suspension, 140k miles - I'm sure my brake vibration and alignment/suspension issues are unrelated, but the timeline and some details overlap so I'm not making two separate threads.
Mid-April - I came home to find that my sightly warped front brake rotors had gotten worse and I wanted to address them. I brought my car to a Les Schwab tire center to have just the front brake rotors re-surfaced (pads had plenty of meat on them still)... but the rotors were too thin and needed to be replaced. Not wanting to wait for OEM rotors to be mailed after ordering online like I normally do, I opted to pay them to replace the rotors on the spot (the first and only time that I've put a non-OEM part on my car). Braking was smooth as silk afterwards. I'm told they use Raybestos rotors.
End of April - I ordered a set of 4 Michelin Premiers from Costco when I was home getting the brake rotors replaced. I was out of town a few days later when they came in so I had my girlfriend handle the tire install at Costco, then immediately drive the car across the street to the same Les Schwab that replaced my rotors to have an alignment done. I came home randomly for a day about a week later and drove the car for a little bit. All was well... car drove straight and smooth, no issues to be reported.
Mid-June, (I've been home since and I'm the only one driving the car) I noticed the car is pulling to the right (if you let go of the wheel) and the steering wheel isn't centered (slightly to the left) when forcing it to drive straight on the highway - the car goes right when you center the wheel. In addition, I again have a noticeable vibration/pulsation when braking from highway speed. I asked my girlfriend how long the car has been doing this and was met with a blank stare... (She's the kind of person that could drive a car with 4 flat tires and not notice. She didn't even notice when my subwoofer completely stopped working a few months back lol).
June 25th - First I brought the car to a different indie shop with stellar reviews on Google and Yelp that I used a few months ago to replace an inner tie rod which the dealership missed on an inspection. Awesome guys at this place, definitely honest and knowledgeable. I have them re-align the car for $100 and double check the front suspension to see if there's any obvious reason why the alignment is so far out of whack after 2 months and only 1300 miles (girlfriend promises no large potholes were hit, and I believe her since none exist in our area). They can't find anything obviously wrong with the suspension and have no possible explanation as to why the left front toe was so far out. Aligned to within spec.
Last Wednesday June 27th - I brought the car to the Les Schwab that replaced my rotors and some kid brings my car into the bay to check it out while I stand outside the bay watching. He starts looking for anything else that could cause this vibration - first with the front wheels on, then takes the front wheels off. After a few minutes, he waves me in to look at a few things. He notes that there wasn't any play with the wheels on when pushing in the 12&6 or 3&9 positions. He claims that my front struts are leaking a little bit and need to be replaced soon... I looked at the struts and chuckled because they're definitely not leaking. While standing at the car, I check out the front brake pads - all 4 pads are evenly wearing and are of uniform thickness, none are dragging on the rotor. He spins the hubs with the wheels off and again with the wheels on, and notes that there is no play in them or bad sounds, but says that they spin "too freely" and that the wheels should stop spinning more quickly than they are. I end up taking the car without having the rotors resurfaced because he claims that my brake vibration could be caused by somewhat dirty brake fluid, wheel bearings spinning "too freely" and my "leaking" struts" lol. Clearly I need to bring this car to a different Les Schwab location and have someone competent work on the rotors.
The next day June 28th - I go to a different Les Schwab location and explain that my front rotors are warped and told him what the kid told me at their other location. The tech says "No problem, I'll take care of it". He checks out the car and doesn't find anything amiss with the suspension or anything else related to the vibration, but says the rotors are slightly warped and need to be resurfaced. An hour later, he tells me one rotor just needed one pass on the lathe to take the warp out, the other rotor required two passes on the lathe. Confident that I had solved my vibration issue, I left.
Within 5 minutes of leaving, I could still feel a slight vibration when braking from highway speed. Definitely a lot less noticeable than before, but still there - slight vibration in the steering wheel and slight pulsation in the brake pedal. Annoyed and frustrated, I didn't want to take another 1-2 hours out of my day going right back.
June 30th though present - My alignment is out again... in the exact same way it was out when I brought it to the indie shop on June 25th - pulls right and steering wheel isn't fully centered when going straight on the highway. I've also noticed a slight clunking sound when backing out of my parking spot at my apartment, and have heard it a handful of other times when maneuvering in parking lots in the last few days. From what I can gather, it happens when the car is rolling very slowly with steering wheel is turned all the way to lock. I haven't tested it enough to know if it only happens when I hit the brakes, or if it happens in forward as well as reverse.
Note:
- I have already replaced the LCA bushings, 3 tie rods, and RF wheel bearing/hub within the last 3 years with OEM parts.
- There is some free-play/looseness felt in the steering wheel when hitting small bumps at very low speeds while turning, but I've been feeling this for over a year due to a small amount of play in one of the U-joints in my steering shaft. I know 100% for sure this is the case as I can hear it when sitting still with the car running or turned off. Here's a video of exactly what I'm talking about which was recorded and posted by another member:
This has also been confirmed by the dealer.
- There are no noises or looseness when hitting speed bumps or any other bumps while driving.
- The car doesn't wander at any speed and tracks perfectly when the alignment is within spec.
TL;DR car won't keep an alignment and there's a slight clunking when turning in parking lots, have a brake vibration that won't go away even after having my brand new rotors resurfaced.
I have an appointment on Friday at the indie shop that did the alignment last week to see what they can figure out, I'm just trying to get some suggestions and hopefully a few things that I can check out for myself before bringing the car in.
Again, sorry for the novel
07-03-18, 07:16 PM
#2
There is some free-play/looseness felt in the steering wheel when hitting small bumps at very low speeds while turning - I had the same thing in my SC430, I replaced upper control arm (ball joint was in very bad condition) and outer tie rod (ball joint was loose). I also hear clunk when hitting a bump. That fix the problem. Steering was tight.
You probably already know this, jack up the car until tire is not touching the ground and see if there is any play by shaking it . Personally, I use a long pry bar, place it under the tire and can push the tire up and down with larger force than shaking with my hands. On my SC, I can re-create the clunking noise easily this way.
Hope this helps.
You probably already know this, jack up the car until tire is not touching the ground and see if there is any play by shaking it . Personally, I use a long pry bar, place it under the tire and can push the tire up and down with larger force than shaking with my hands. On my SC, I can re-create the clunking noise easily this way.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by BCT; 07-03-18 at 07:21 PM.
07-03-18, 08:47 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I know you probably had to stop for a snack break while reading my novel, and you probably lost track of where you were reading when you got back lol.
Watch that video if you didn't already. That is literally and exactly what my car does and sounds like. I can recreate it exactly like in the video 100% of the time.
Again, I don't hear any sounds from outside the car when hitting bumps. I really only feel the looseness in the steering wheel, and the only sound that I hear is coming from the steering wheel column itself and it sounds exactly what it sounds like in that video. The only time I can feel the looseness is when I hit a very small 'ripple' like a taller section of new pavement with a sharp lip, and only when hitting with one wheel at a time. An example where I can feel this 100% of the time is when I turn into the driveway of my apartment complex. It's a left turn, and the very bottom/entrance of the driveway is a slightly inclined ramp which has a small 1" deep depression that is jagged around the edges. It appears that some of the pavement has slightly collapsed into the ground underneath, and this depression is about 2-3 feet away from the actual road surface up the driveway. I drive over this at a 45 degree angle so only my left front tire hits it as I'm entering the driveway, and I feel it the sound that correlates to the sound in the video.
There is some free-play/looseness felt in the steering wheel when hitting small bumps at very low speeds while turning - I had the same thing in my SC430, I replaced upper control arm (ball joint was in very bad condition) and outer tie rod (ball joint was loose). I also hear clunk when hitting a bump. That fix the problem. Steering was tight.
You probably already know this, jack up the car until tire is not touching the ground and see if there is any play by shaking it . Personally, I use a long pry bar, place it under the tire and can push the tire up and down with larger force than shaking with my hands. On my SC, I can re-create the clunking noise easily this way.
You probably already know this, jack up the car until tire is not touching the ground and see if there is any play by shaking it . Personally, I use a long pry bar, place it under the tire and can push the tire up and down with larger force than shaking with my hands. On my SC, I can re-create the clunking noise easily this way.
There is some free-play/looseness felt in the steering wheel when hitting small bumps at very low speeds while turning, but I've been feeling this for over a year due to a small amount of play in one of the U-joints in my steering shaft. I know 100% for sure this is the case as I can hear it when sitting still with the car running or turned off. Here's a video of exactly what I'm talking about which was recorded and posted by another member: steering column/shaft freeplay This has also been confirmed by the dealer.
Again, I don't hear any sounds from outside the car when hitting bumps. I really only feel the looseness in the steering wheel, and the only sound that I hear is coming from the steering wheel column itself and it sounds exactly what it sounds like in that video. The only time I can feel the looseness is when I hit a very small 'ripple' like a taller section of new pavement with a sharp lip, and only when hitting with one wheel at a time. An example where I can feel this 100% of the time is when I turn into the driveway of my apartment complex. It's a left turn, and the very bottom/entrance of the driveway is a slightly inclined ramp which has a small 1" deep depression that is jagged around the edges. It appears that some of the pavement has slightly collapsed into the ground underneath, and this depression is about 2-3 feet away from the actual road surface up the driveway. I drive over this at a 45 degree angle so only my left front tire hits it as I'm entering the driveway, and I feel it the sound that correlates to the sound in the video.
Last edited by Mbodall; 07-03-18 at 08:52 PM.
07-03-18, 09:59 PM
#4
I recently found out my front upper control arm bushings was bad. It made my steering wheel slightly off and sometimes back to straight. It drive fine and straight still. Only bad bushing. It was hard for me to feel the slight play, but it was enough to mess with my steering wheel. I also replaced my rack & pinion bushings with poly.
07-03-18, 10:18 PM
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I recently found out my front upper control arm bushings was bad. It made my steering wheel slightly off and sometimes back to straight. It drive fine and straight still. Only bad bushing. It was hard for me to feel the slight play, but it was enough to mess with my steering wheel. I also replaced my rack & pinion bushings with poly.
07-03-18, 11:18 PM
#6
Car was in the air. Move the wheel at 3&9, 12&6 position. Even when moving it, it took me a while to see movement in the bushings. Had very slight movement. Once I remove the UCA. The bushing metal specss basically fell out
Last edited by k7q; 07-07-18 at 08:41 PM.
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Mbodall (07-03-18)
07-04-18, 08:24 AM
#7
Here are the steps I would recommend to take to fix the issue:
1) Rebalance all rims at a high quality alignment machine, preferably the one that apply road force.
2) Re-do alignment at a different shop - but also ask the technician to loose main bolts in front and rear suspension first to shake the car to rebalance the weights and sitting of bushings. After torquing everything back to spec (meaning to Service manual specs), proceed with toe and camber alignment.
3) If the alignment is all green and you don’t see play in ball joint by applying bar force, then alignment is done successfully.
4) Ask technician to use the tool to listen to potential clunks inside (!) the wheel hub if you have suspicion.
5) Need to verity if there is air in the brake system. Perform procedure to remove it as this step is crucial important for heavy vehicles like LS430.
6) Reset steering angle sensor and perform zero point calibration as a MUST (!). If previous alignment fixed the issue with steering wheel and if you perform zero calibration, your car will drive firm straight without loosenes.
Question. Did you hear noises when you rotate steering wheel in low speeds?
Update: saw the video. This has to be addressed first before doing alignment.
1) Rebalance all rims at a high quality alignment machine, preferably the one that apply road force.
2) Re-do alignment at a different shop - but also ask the technician to loose main bolts in front and rear suspension first to shake the car to rebalance the weights and sitting of bushings. After torquing everything back to spec (meaning to Service manual specs), proceed with toe and camber alignment.
3) If the alignment is all green and you don’t see play in ball joint by applying bar force, then alignment is done successfully.
4) Ask technician to use the tool to listen to potential clunks inside (!) the wheel hub if you have suspicion.
5) Need to verity if there is air in the brake system. Perform procedure to remove it as this step is crucial important for heavy vehicles like LS430.
6) Reset steering angle sensor and perform zero point calibration as a MUST (!). If previous alignment fixed the issue with steering wheel and if you perform zero calibration, your car will drive firm straight without loosenes.
Question. Did you hear noises when you rotate steering wheel in low speeds?
Update: saw the video. This has to be addressed first before doing alignment.
Last edited by ls430w140; 07-04-18 at 08:27 AM.
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07-04-18, 09:34 AM
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: CA
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I’m in the process of fixing some similar issues on my new to me 05 UL with 125k. My main complaint is when I hit a bump i get a shake in my steering wheel and a clunk from somewhere in the front end of the car. The shak is worse at higher speeds and larger bumps and causes some funky bump steer, it also feels like my alignment is not staying in one position but that is just a feeling with no alignment data yet. I’m also getting some slight shake under heavy breaking and around 55mph.
I check all of the joints for play and inspected boots and bushing and everything looks good with almost no noticeable play. But all the parts are original and this is a big heavy car so I’m going to replace just about everything!
The very first thing I replaced were the lower ball joints, to me this is the first item to wear and one of the worst to have fail!
This fixed my shake under braking (I thought it was warped rotors for sure!), got rid of most of my shake at 55 (I’m sure the tires are slightly out of balance but it’s so slight now I’m not worried) and tightened up some of the bump steer. But did not fix the clunk of steering shake.
Today I will be doing at least the upper control arms and rear lower bushings.
If this doesn’t fix the issues I’m going to do inner and outer tie rods and steering rack bushings next.
I truly think the main root of my biggest issues is the steering rack bushings! It makes the most sense and effects steering feel and alignment. But since there was an improvement from the lower ball joints which looked and felt ok spending the 3-4 hundred bucks to replace everything is a no brainer!
I’ll report back with my findings
I check all of the joints for play and inspected boots and bushing and everything looks good with almost no noticeable play. But all the parts are original and this is a big heavy car so I’m going to replace just about everything!
The very first thing I replaced were the lower ball joints, to me this is the first item to wear and one of the worst to have fail!
This fixed my shake under braking (I thought it was warped rotors for sure!), got rid of most of my shake at 55 (I’m sure the tires are slightly out of balance but it’s so slight now I’m not worried) and tightened up some of the bump steer. But did not fix the clunk of steering shake.
Today I will be doing at least the upper control arms and rear lower bushings.
If this doesn’t fix the issues I’m going to do inner and outer tie rods and steering rack bushings next.
I truly think the main root of my biggest issues is the steering rack bushings! It makes the most sense and effects steering feel and alignment. But since there was an improvement from the lower ball joints which looked and felt ok spending the 3-4 hundred bucks to replace everything is a no brainer!
I’ll report back with my findings
07-04-18, 06:53 PM
#9
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: CA
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After a quick test ride my clunk seems gone and the shake in the steering wheel seems better but still there. I’ll get it out more tomorrow to shake it down and see how it goes.
The job was straight forward, but the damn bolts for the upper control arm did not clear the oem air strut to allow the arm to be removed... I had to scramble and figure out how to disconnect the air line and drop the strut which sucked. But the is250 rear control arm bushings are super easy to deal with!
The job was straight forward, but the damn bolts for the upper control arm did not clear the oem air strut to allow the arm to be removed... I had to scramble and figure out how to disconnect the air line and drop the strut which sucked. But the is250 rear control arm bushings are super easy to deal with!
07-06-18, 05:13 PM
#10
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I’m in the process of fixing some similar issues on my new to me 05 UL with 125k. My main complaint is when I hit a bump i get a shake in my steering wheel and a clunk from somewhere in the front end of the car. The shak is worse at higher speeds and larger bumps and causes some funky bump steer, it also feels like my alignment is not staying in one position but that is just a feeling with no alignment data yet. I’m also getting some slight shake under heavy breaking and around 55mph.
I check all of the joints for play and inspected boots and bushing and everything looks good with almost no noticeable play. But all the parts are original and this is a big heavy car so I’m going to replace just about everything!
The very first thing I replaced were the lower ball joints, to me this is the first item to wear and one of the worst to have fail!
This fixed my shake under braking (I thought it was warped rotors for sure!), got rid of most of my shake at 55 (I’m sure the tires are slightly out of balance but it’s so slight now I’m not worried) and tightened up some of the bump steer. But did not fix the clunk of steering shake.
Today I will be doing at least the upper control arms and rear lower bushings.
If this doesn’t fix the issues I’m going to do inner and outer tie rods and steering rack bushings next.
I truly think the main root of my biggest issues is the steering rack bushings! It makes the most sense and effects steering feel and alignment. But since there was an improvement from the lower ball joints which looked and felt ok spending the 3-4 hundred bucks to replace everything is a no brainer!
I’ll report back with my findings
I check all of the joints for play and inspected boots and bushing and everything looks good with almost no noticeable play. But all the parts are original and this is a big heavy car so I’m going to replace just about everything!
The very first thing I replaced were the lower ball joints, to me this is the first item to wear and one of the worst to have fail!
This fixed my shake under braking (I thought it was warped rotors for sure!), got rid of most of my shake at 55 (I’m sure the tires are slightly out of balance but it’s so slight now I’m not worried) and tightened up some of the bump steer. But did not fix the clunk of steering shake.
Today I will be doing at least the upper control arms and rear lower bushings.
If this doesn’t fix the issues I’m going to do inner and outer tie rods and steering rack bushings next.
I truly think the main root of my biggest issues is the steering rack bushings! It makes the most sense and effects steering feel and alignment. But since there was an improvement from the lower ball joints which looked and felt ok spending the 3-4 hundred bucks to replace everything is a no brainer!
I’ll report back with my findings
07-07-18, 02:57 AM
#12
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Jump to post #5 in this thread- https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...aft-clunk.html
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10-26-09 06:47 PM