Johnny Mayday

Like Ian said on the HP, Lexus spared nothing to make sure that the quality of its initial offerings were on par or superior to anything the Europeans had to offer. And even after 15 years, that quality is shining through... Pardon me, I think I'm going to head to Craigslist, ha ha.

Johnhav430

They spared a quality power window switch setup (it has felt cheap from day one)--seems to be right out of a Corolla. They spared concealing the wire that runs to the rain sensor. They spared hinging the undercover to allow access to the oil filter. They spared high quality foam to prevent sagging years down the road in the fronts. They spared quality door actuators and tilt telescope motors that could last the life of the vehicle. They didn't use park sensors that could last the life of the vehicle. I love my car, but I like to be realistic as well....

Johnny Mayday

Duly noted! Thanks man. I understand that changing the starter motor is a hell of a job too, as you have to take a ton of stuff to get to it.

KraziAzn

LX470 or 100 Series Land Cruiser. Built to last till the end of time.

Johnhav430

imho, the Germans do the opposite. Everything is hefty and feels high quality, but a 2017 Mercedes can leave the owner dead on the side of the road. Different way of thinking.

The window switches surprised me as we use them daily. I think our switches are literally out of a Corolla, not trying to be funny, literally. GM does some of that too where a Malibu has the same controls as an Escalade.

texan_176

iTrader: (5)

They went el cheapo on the door arm rests on the 3rd gen LS. Unless you have a CL or UL model you do not get stitched leather. Prior to 2001 every LS has this as standard. It's a very minor detail but it just takes the car up a notch to have it. CL and UL trims should have had the leather on the console and dash as exclusive to them but all models should have kept the tradition alive with leather on the doors.

Johnhav430

One of those feel things....you can get up to the $50-$60 price range for wireless keyboards and mice, and they feel cheap as all ****. Probably the mfgs. don't care, nor do many people. Even an "any old" keyboard that came with a pc from 2005 is way more solid than a wireless one. Even today, the so-called Lenovo ThinkPads do have nice keyboards, while many HPs cheap out. If anything, with the Germans, the 3 series takes components from a 7, not the other way around...I dunno why this never meant anything to Japanese. As mentioned, I drove a 2018 Maxima and my knee would push the door panel in, it literally flexed. Germans care about this stuff down to entry level VWs....

jayclapp

I don't get the complaint on the window switches. Mine are very precise and easy to use. A slight pull upward or push downward cause the window to move as long as you hold the switch. Consequently, it is easy to move the window in small increment if you wish. If you pull or push to the extreme position, the window will automatically go all the way to the up or down position. I don't get a "cheap" feel in these switches at all, rather quite the opposite for me.

tallcaguy

Agree. My LS is the best car I've ever owned. Unmatched ride quality and world class finish. Rock solid drivetrain and bulletproof in many ways. However, add side mirrors to the list. The CD player. Anything Mark Levinson (amp, cheap paper speakers that can't be replaced w/ aftermarket). Great just not indestructible (no car is). Depends on the owner and use.

Like the idea of hinging the undercover (or removable plate) for access to oil filter. Someone used tin snips to hack an opening on my '01.

Johnhav430

Honestly, I would rather have a A8 or S550. I actually keep wanting to get a 2011 S550. My buddy keeps telling me do it, he thinks there will be so many funny stories I'll be sending him of breaking down, fixing things, etc! I literally saw a seemingly brand new one on Monday being towed. One of the founders of our firm got one in Jan 2014 and I remember it was undriveable with < 100 miles on the odometer. My bro's friend has a S550 co. car and he calls it a piece of garbage. Being stranded angers the owner to say the least. With all this being said, I want one!! lol

Getting the LS430 in 10/16, and having nothing go wrong except the left corner park assist sensors is not all that surprising. Having never been stranded is not surprising either. Averaging 19.x mpg driving to work, when my Maxima did 21.x, I thought the delta would be bigger, so that is a pleasant surprise. I wholeheartedly admit the LS430 is a wiser choice when a person wants to buy a used flagship out of CPO. Is it settling for something less than the best? Yes. Is it a good settling? Yes. Overall, it's hard to go wrong with a LS430!

tallcaguy

I just think about the typical 5k/yr in repair costs and reliability problems. I did German. The parts prices were obscene. If you get an Audi or MB, can share stories in here altho we might say something like "you were warned". Despite my nit picking, my LS is the best car I've ever owned. It's great to own a car that my Lexus Service Advisor says is the best car Lexus has ever made. If you had to replace a 430, is there anything as good? Sorry but it's not the 460.

Johnhav430

I've found the German parts market to be transparent and bountiful, and often much cheaper than Lexus/Toyota (look at the brake sensor wires), control arms, etc. With German, you have 3 choices, OE/OEM/aftermarket. You don't have the guessing on if the OEM is the same as the OE, it is (like the Aisin v. Lexus timing belt kits, people get Lexus sometimes because they are worried or unsure if Aisin is any good). Parts are plentiful, and for what one cannot DIY, the indies are like 5 to 1 vs. Japanese indies, due to competition.

At the same time, if you can't get to work, all bets are off! I have this weird feeling I will own an S class, used, at some point. However, the LS430 makes it so that it doesn't have to be for a very long time...

texan_176

iTrader: (5)

I really did not grow up around high end German cars. My dad always had Buick or Cadillac so when I got out of school I initially wanted to buy a German car because I had seen junked ones from the 70s and 80s. The quality looked stunning with how thick the leather was, how they mirror polished tiny screws that held on the plate for the door latches, the grade of plastics, etc. I owned all Honda and Toyota stuff as student but those were inexpensive cars to begin with; reliable but not fancy. Then I saw the horrors that people I knew were having with Mercedes/BMW. I will probably never buy one made after 1991 when they made the last W126 Mercedes Benz and for BMW probably the E36 is the newest I would go. My boss bought a 2012 BMW M6 new and it has been a nightmare. With only 38K miles it had to have the fuel system rebuilt, both seat motors failed, the driver door power window motor went out, the cats have been changed twice, and most recently they dropped the subframe to replace the entire engine harness because it would throw a CEL light and give the code for bad oxygen sensors. The dealer changed the sensors twice and it would still throw the code so they kept the car 3 weeks and did the harness. The tire pressure light randomly comes on and the dealer can't fix it. The car is a POS in my opinion and I would be pissed off if I spent that kind of money on it. Owning it out of the warranty period you would need to budget $5K a year minimum on repairs. They depreciate like crazy for this reason. Oh, and the engineering is not what it used to be. BMW uses electric water pumps made of plastic with plastic impellers (which dissolve) in many models. They also did away with the dip stick for engine oil and leave that job to a sensor. So a $50 sensor working properly is what you depend on to not destroy a $5,000 engine; incredibly stupid of them to do that.

Johnhav430

I drove my 335i to work today, wow, it's actually the only car in our stable that handles like it does, Pilot Super Sports also are no joke. I ordered it without Nav, no backup cam, it's a stick, so you could say it has less electronics than the LS430. I don't think I'm the exception, I think I am the story that gets ignored because it's boring. In owning it 11.5 years, nothing really went wrong except the failure of the ABS system at age 9 (again yes $4,200 at dealer but I diy'd for < $500 incl. software and tools). It's been 11.5 years. So things now that break would be sorta more normal, even my Maxima had exhaust fail at 12, lower rad collapse at 9, evap system at 4, all kinds of egr and emissions at 15. I don't exactly love risk, but I want to open the apartment door once in a while and venture out down the hall. To summarily dismiss German cars is the easy way out.

There's a reason btw for the electric water pump. My car has heat in the winter, for about 40 min, with the engine off, so that the driver does not need to consume gasoline. It also has no draw off the crankshaft. The above post makes the electric water pump sound like it's a cheap-out? It actually costs more. Oil sensor, yeah again a more costly way to measure the oil level. Then again, the engine doesn't consume any, so what's there to measure? It's not like I'm checking the LS430 weekly.

I'd rather have an American, a Japanese, and a German car, which we do. The first is gonna stay out of the stable going forward, by far the highest cost of ownership, and the poorest design (lately the dirty 12V power that burns out all the bulbs is very annoying--it may have been only $9 in front, but the rears are $50 each for the sockets--and this was a problem from 2003 to 2011).

tradosauru

You must have got a lemon. All my stuff works in my 2005 LS430 at 150,000 miles.