2004 LS430, 1 Owner, Asking 18K
07-10-14, 09:33 AM
#1
2004 LS430, 1 Owner, Asking 18K
Hi there,
I have a CT200 (hate it). I miss my sold 1997 VIP LS400. Was going to buy a LS460L, but wife hates the new car. Says it looks like Accord/Hyundai
and wants the older body which she says looks more "Stately." Well hard to find the older body with lower miles....
I found a local LS430 original owner, 2004 model. 50K miles. Owner is 84 years old and can't drive anymore.
It has the parking assist, but has no nav. Has heated/cooled seats. Thus I believe Premium package. So definitely not an UL.
Car is in excellent condition. 10 year service history at Lexus of Santa Monica. No paint work, no scratches. Color isn't great (silver exterior silver interior) but I can live with it.
Car was driven 37K miles from 2004-2008. And driven only 13K miles since 2008, but have been continuously serviced.
MAJOR MAINTENANCE:
Car has new breaks/rotors done at 49K miles.
New Michelin tires.
Servo motors also replaced at same time.
Both luggage stays failed internally and replaced at same time.
Both front lower control arms replaced.
QUESTIONS:
What are your thoughts on price at 18K asking price?
Per the maintenance on Lexus website, car was almost over maintained. I wonder if the dealership just changed stuff for the sake of it.
There are mentions of (in the website log) "handled by yelllow team and handled by red team" which I am not sure what it means.
I have a CT200 (hate it). I miss my sold 1997 VIP LS400. Was going to buy a LS460L, but wife hates the new car. Says it looks like Accord/Hyundai
and wants the older body which she says looks more "Stately." Well hard to find the older body with lower miles.... I found a local LS430 original owner, 2004 model. 50K miles. Owner is 84 years old and can't drive anymore.
It has the parking assist, but has no nav. Has heated/cooled seats. Thus I believe Premium package. So definitely not an UL.
Car is in excellent condition. 10 year service history at Lexus of Santa Monica. No paint work, no scratches. Color isn't great (silver exterior silver interior) but I can live with it.
Car was driven 37K miles from 2004-2008. And driven only 13K miles since 2008, but have been continuously serviced.
MAJOR MAINTENANCE:
Car has new breaks/rotors done at 49K miles.
New Michelin tires.
Servo motors also replaced at same time.
Both luggage stays failed internally and replaced at same time.
Both front lower control arms replaced.
QUESTIONS:
What are your thoughts on price at 18K asking price?
Per the maintenance on Lexus website, car was almost over maintained. I wonder if the dealership just changed stuff for the sake of it.
There are mentions of (in the website log) "handled by yelllow team and handled by red team" which I am not sure what it means.
07-10-14, 11:38 AM
#2
Moderator
Sounds like a great car - especially with such low miles if that means there is also very low wear and tear on it. If it was garaged it should be in near mint condition. Although you may have to refinish/paint the bumpers because old people tend to bang them up.
Only caveat I would think about - A 2004 in 2014 means TB on the car is 10 years old. I personally would change the TB at 10+ years simply due to age. My LS is a 2006 and I will likely change the TB sometime before 2017 even tho I won't have 90k yet. You may want to offer the seller 18k minus what ever his normal Lexus service writer says the TB/WP services will cost. That should be easy for the seller to understand because Lexus says the TB should be replaced at 7 years even with lo miles.
Only caveat I would think about - A 2004 in 2014 means TB on the car is 10 years old. I personally would change the TB at 10+ years simply due to age. My LS is a 2006 and I will likely change the TB sometime before 2017 even tho I won't have 90k yet. You may want to offer the seller 18k minus what ever his normal Lexus service writer says the TB/WP services will cost. That should be easy for the seller to understand because Lexus says the TB should be replaced at 7 years even with lo miles.
07-10-14, 11:52 AM
#3
Bumpers have no scratches on it surprisingly.
However she did break the antennae and the glass on the driver side mirror, both of which were replaced by the local Lexus dealership.
I havne't been able to test drive it, as she is wheel chair bound, and wants her son there for me to take out the car. I looked it over. 3 car big garage=1 car.
I have an appointment with her son on Saturday morning to drive.
Of course it is a "low option" LS, but it isn't a huge deal for me. I want to dump my CT200h at any cost and get back into a LS.
For my last LS, I did the TB/Water pump at a CL Vendor locally. I bought all the parts OEM online, and his shop did the work. I did it at 127K miles and 10 year for that LS.
Couple of my concerns are:
1) why was luggage tray fail
2) why lower control arms fail -or did dealer lie to old woman? (they did the brakes both rotors and pads at 18k miles, 38k miles, and 50k miles)--so I know the dealer has been taking advantage of her.
3) I know the 2004 had the tranny recall. Lexus Service online doesn't show anyhting about the recall done, thus wondering if it fell outside of the recall.
However she did break the antennae and the glass on the driver side mirror, both of which were replaced by the local Lexus dealership.
I havne't been able to test drive it, as she is wheel chair bound, and wants her son there for me to take out the car. I looked it over. 3 car big garage=1 car.
I have an appointment with her son on Saturday morning to drive.
Of course it is a "low option" LS, but it isn't a huge deal for me. I want to dump my CT200h at any cost and get back into a LS.
For my last LS, I did the TB/Water pump at a CL Vendor locally. I bought all the parts OEM online, and his shop did the work. I did it at 127K miles and 10 year for that LS.
Couple of my concerns are:
1) why was luggage tray fail
2) why lower control arms fail -or did dealer lie to old woman? (they did the brakes both rotors and pads at 18k miles, 38k miles, and 50k miles)--so I know the dealer has been taking advantage of her.
3) I know the 2004 had the tranny recall. Lexus Service online doesn't show anyhting about the recall done, thus wondering if it fell outside of the recall.
07-10-14, 12:29 PM
#5
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18 is way to much for 04 base model. You can get one at auction for about 10-11, shouldn't pay more than 12 - 13. Keep looking there are a lot of good deals. You can get a nice 06 for probably 15-16. I've been looking for a while and I noticed that private sellers are listing their cars higher than dealers. They go by KBB value which means nothing in the real world. Audi of Greenwich just had an 06 CL one owner with 72k they finally sold at 14953 originally listed at 18900.
07-10-14, 12:50 PM
#6
Moderator
Pads and rotors that often is not normal at all. It could be driver related - some weird drivers keep foot lighlty on brakes while driving - doing this quickly fries pads and the rotors. Or it could be simple greedy service writer on an unsuspecting old person...hope not.
The combination of lower control arms and the brake/rotor work could point to high speed vibration issues that may have been worked on without actually knowing the cause of the problem.
In terms of the cost - one owner cars that have not been thru the auctions and multiple dealers are way better cars on average and are worth significantly more to a discerning used car buyer. If you really want a pristine example the dealer is usually not a good source. But if the "average" decent condition used LS430 works for you than by all means take advantage of lower cost cars that have been thru the car auction process...just check to make sure all parts are still attached and more than one key remains.
I am also a serious fan of the Premium content LS. When I am buying a luxury 10 yo car the last thing I want in it is the obsolete 2004 Lexus NAV system and the laughably out of date grainy screen in the car. I personally would pay more for a high quality pristine LS430 without the crappy DVD hardware based NAV and screen. But certainly other smart folks feel differently about this and they want and value that fine DVD based 10 yo NAV system ...I think they are crazy : )
The combination of lower control arms and the brake/rotor work could point to high speed vibration issues that may have been worked on without actually knowing the cause of the problem.
In terms of the cost - one owner cars that have not been thru the auctions and multiple dealers are way better cars on average and are worth significantly more to a discerning used car buyer. If you really want a pristine example the dealer is usually not a good source. But if the "average" decent condition used LS430 works for you than by all means take advantage of lower cost cars that have been thru the car auction process...just check to make sure all parts are still attached and more than one key remains.
I am also a serious fan of the Premium content LS. When I am buying a luxury 10 yo car the last thing I want in it is the obsolete 2004 Lexus NAV system and the laughably out of date grainy screen in the car. I personally would pay more for a high quality pristine LS430 without the crappy DVD hardware based NAV and screen. But certainly other smart folks feel differently about this and they want and value that fine DVD based 10 yo NAV system ...I think they are crazy : )
Last edited by Jabberwock; 07-10-14 at 12:55 PM.
07-10-14, 01:17 PM
#7
Brake pads and rotors THREE times as well as control arms and motor mounts in 50K miles? Being driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday?! Sounds fishy. I'd definitely want to understand that issue (whether it was the driver resting their foot on the brake, the dealer taking advange BTW doubt it, or some problem that is warping the rotors etc). The control arms and motor mounts might have been a shot in the dark at fixing some other problem that is still there. Will be hard to tell if the problem is still there since the latest brake pad / rotor replacement was only 1K miles ago.
No idea what to think of 'servo motors' going out as I don't know what system that is.
My 03 UL has had ONE set of brakes, still on original OEM rotors, original motor mounts in 85K miles. No 'servo motors' (whatever that is), control arms and bushings are just fine. I did, however, have to take apart the telescoping wheel and regrease the gears due to a loud groaning noise coming when the wheel would telescope. This is common on this model and may be why they replaced the motors. Re-greasing the gears fixed the noise for me.
Bottom line is that I'd be wary of the frequent brake replacement as well as the fact that 18K seems high anyway. If it was one-owner with nothing but normal, documented maintenance that might warrant a higher price but this car is not that.
No idea what to think of 'servo motors' going out as I don't know what system that is.
My 03 UL has had ONE set of brakes, still on original OEM rotors, original motor mounts in 85K miles. No 'servo motors' (whatever that is), control arms and bushings are just fine. I did, however, have to take apart the telescoping wheel and regrease the gears due to a loud groaning noise coming when the wheel would telescope. This is common on this model and may be why they replaced the motors. Re-greasing the gears fixed the noise for me.
Bottom line is that I'd be wary of the frequent brake replacement as well as the fact that 18K seems high anyway. If it was one-owner with nothing but normal, documented maintenance that might warrant a higher price but this car is not that.
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07-10-14, 01:38 PM
#8
18k is high in my opinion.. I paid less for my 2004 model and it had less miles on it and had more options and was a clean two owner car with records from Lexus...
I'd say wait for another car or hold out for a lower price.
I'd say wait for another car or hold out for a lower price.
07-10-14, 01:39 PM
#9
18 is way to much for 04 base model. You can get one at auction for about 10-11, shouldn't pay more than 12 - 13. Keep looking there are a lot of good deals. You can get a nice 06 for probably 15-16. I've been looking for a while and I noticed that private sellers are listing their cars higher than dealers. They go by KBB value which means nothing in the real world. Audi of Greenwich just had an 06 CL one owner with 72k they finally sold at 14953 originally listed at 18900.
I know Audi of Greenwich really well. Bought my Lotus new at Lotus of Greenwich and drove it cross country. Also bought a Miata at Rockville, MD at Dacars Volvo
07-10-14, 01:42 PM
#10
Pads and rotors that often is not normal at all. It could be driver related - some weird drivers keep foot lighlty on brakes while driving - doing this quickly fries pads and the rotors. Or it could be simple greedy service writer on an unsuspecting old person...hope not.
The combination of lower control arms and the brake/rotor work could point to high speed vibration issues that may have been worked on without actually knowing the cause of the problem.
In terms of the cost - one owner cars that have not been thru the auctions and multiple dealers are way better cars on average and are worth significantly more to a discerning used car buyer. If you really want a pristine example the dealer is usually not a good source. But if the "average" decent condition used LS430 works for you than by all means take advantage of lower cost cars that have been thru the car auction process...just check to make sure all parts are still attached and more than one key remains.
I am also a serious fan of the Premium content LS. When I am buying a luxury 10 yo car the last thing I want in it is the obsolete 2004 Lexus NAV system and the laughably out of date grainy screen in the car. I personally would pay more for a high quality pristine LS430 without the crappy DVD hardware based NAV and screen. But certainly other smart folks feel differently about this and they want and value that fine DVD based 10 yo NAV system ...I think they are crazy : )
The combination of lower control arms and the brake/rotor work could point to high speed vibration issues that may have been worked on without actually knowing the cause of the problem.
In terms of the cost - one owner cars that have not been thru the auctions and multiple dealers are way better cars on average and are worth significantly more to a discerning used car buyer. If you really want a pristine example the dealer is usually not a good source. But if the "average" decent condition used LS430 works for you than by all means take advantage of lower cost cars that have been thru the car auction process...just check to make sure all parts are still attached and more than one key remains.
I am also a serious fan of the Premium content LS. When I am buying a luxury 10 yo car the last thing I want in it is the obsolete 2004 Lexus NAV system and the laughably out of date grainy screen in the car. I personally would pay more for a high quality pristine LS430 without the crappy DVD hardware based NAV and screen. But certainly other smart folks feel differently about this and they want and value that fine DVD based 10 yo NAV system ...I think they are crazy : )
My 2013CT200 has all the gizmos modern that the LS doesn't have.
I am really looking for another LS, that will take 30K miles a year, and not bat an eye. All I use is bluetooth, though some of the gizmos in the CT are cool (door touch unlock/lock), etc.
I am wiling to pay a premium on a 1 owner car, but if I am paying 4-5K as indicated previously, I am not sure its worth that.
I will do a test drive Saturday and see if there are any high speed issues--also if they will negotiate with cash in front of them (hardly doubt it, as Zillow has the house address listed in the mid 7 figures)
07-10-14, 01:48 PM
#11
Brake pads and rotors THREE times as well as control arms and motor mounts in 50K miles? Being driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday?! Sounds fishy. I'd definitely want to understand that issue (whether it was the driver resting their foot on the brake, the dealer taking advange BTW doubt it, or some problem that is warping the rotors etc). The control arms and motor mounts might have been a shot in the dark at fixing some other problem that is still there. Will be hard to tell if the problem is still there since the latest brake pad / rotor replacement was only 1K miles ago.
No idea what to think of 'servo motors' going out as I don't know what system that is.
My 03 UL has had ONE set of brakes, still on original OEM rotors, original motor mounts in 85K miles. No 'servo motors' (whatever that is), control arms and bushings are just fine. I did, however, have to take apart the telescoping wheel and regrease the gears due to a loud groaning noise coming when the wheel would telescope. This is common on this model and may be why they replaced the motors. Re-greasing the gears fixed the noise for me.
Bottom line is that I'd be wary of the frequent brake replacement as well as the fact that 18K seems high anyway. If it was one-owner with nothing but normal, documented maintenance that might warrant a higher price but this car is not that.
No idea what to think of 'servo motors' going out as I don't know what system that is.
My 03 UL has had ONE set of brakes, still on original OEM rotors, original motor mounts in 85K miles. No 'servo motors' (whatever that is), control arms and bushings are just fine. I did, however, have to take apart the telescoping wheel and regrease the gears due to a loud groaning noise coming when the wheel would telescope. This is common on this model and may be why they replaced the motors. Re-greasing the gears fixed the noise for me.
Bottom line is that I'd be wary of the frequent brake replacement as well as the fact that 18K seems high anyway. If it was one-owner with nothing but normal, documented maintenance that might warrant a higher price but this car is not that.
The funny thing is, 2K miles before they did the brake change, they noted "front and rear at 80%" and then bam brakes changed again....
Control Arms and MOtor mounts this early-doesn't make sense to me.
I just counted, the car has been to the dealer 23 separate times in the 50K miles. Each time there is 2-4 line items things. There is total of 68 entries
Ok ... I will research a bit more...
07-10-14, 02:06 PM
#12
I wouldn't worry about the frequent trips to the dealer, if it was up to them you would be there once a month being serviced and replacing things.
18k to me sounds okay considering the mileage, but I personally couldn't afford that so id be offering 14k and see what happens.
Don't be afraid to haggle, many times these people are well off and they just want the car gone so they don't have to worry about it.
18k to me sounds okay considering the mileage, but I personally couldn't afford that so id be offering 14k and see what happens.
Don't be afraid to haggle, many times these people are well off and they just want the car gone so they don't have to worry about it.
07-10-14, 02:20 PM
#13
I wouldn't worry about the frequent trips to the dealer, if it was up to them you would be there once a month being serviced and replacing things.
18k to me sounds okay considering the mileage, but I personally couldn't afford that so id be offering 14k and see what happens.
Don't be afraid to haggle, many times these people are well off and they just want the car gone so they don't have to worry about it.
18k to me sounds okay considering the mileage, but I personally couldn't afford that so id be offering 14k and see what happens.
Don't be afraid to haggle, many times these people are well off and they just want the car gone so they don't have to worry about it.
There are 7 notes about "offer 20% off to customer for customer retention" LOL
I have 3 other Lexus, and dealer never gives me coupons! I guess I don't go often enough LOL
07-10-14, 03:45 PM
#14
For reference, I bought my 06 PP with 47k miles last year for $19.5k driven by an elderly woman who went to a nursing home. Brakes were replaced around 35k. When I had the car inspected, they told me the LCA bushings need to be replaced. If the highway test drive goes well, I would jump on this deal. You may be paying a little more, but knowing that granny owned it is a bonus for me.
07-10-14, 04:10 PM
#15
For reference, I bought my 06 PP with 47k miles last year for $19.5k driven by an elderly woman who went to a nursing home. Brakes were replaced around 35k. When I had the car inspected, they told me the LCA bushings need to be replaced. If the highway test drive goes well, I would jump on this deal. You may be paying a little more, but knowing that granny owned it is a bonus for me.
Aside from vibration on the highway, anything else you recommend checking?
Appreciate the point of reference.