I don't necessarily love the styling (I think the 745iL is much sleeker) but I love the value. Mercedes & BMW are not close in what you get for the price. I also love the service my dealer gives me. I always assume that any vehicle as complex as the top of the line models we are talking about will have some problems. The key then is how the problems are dealt with.

 

It's the most expensive lexus I bought so far and it has the most problems. Hopefully no more problems pop up:
1. Tranmission/fuel pump recalls.
2. Oxygen sensor died.
3. AC compressor.
4. Brakes make some crazy noises. They replaced them 2 times already.

 

As a long-time admirer of the LS430, I have to say I'm amazed by what I'm reading. It is comforting to see that most people's service departments have taken care of them (or so it appears), but still I would've never expected to see compressors, brakes, mirrors, etc. as issues. Wow...

I remember reading about the tranny/fuel pump recall, and if I remember correctly, it sounded like something very simple that had to do with the park linkage and not with the actual operation of the gearbox. This is not ideal, of course, but it can happen to any manufacturer, and at least Lexus took care of it. Weren't they also giving some sort of "Lexus card" to people with $ to spend at the dealer?

I do have to agree with all of you that the other issues are annoying, unusual, and should not be present in a vehicle like this. So, don't think I'm being an apologist for Lexus on this one... The thing is, I think of Acura with its transmission issues on the TL and the many years it took them to issue a recall (not to mention the crappy way that they treat their customers). I also think of Mercedes with the sludge issues on the ML ('98-'00, because of extended oil drain intervals with dino oil) and how they poorly dealt with the issue until they finally decided to make Mobil 1 synthetic the recommended oil. All of a sudden, Lexus seems to outshine the competition all over again. I know that all mfrs have good and bad dealers, but I think you would agree that some mfrs have a much stronger commitment to customer service than others.

I do hope someone at Lexus is listening to you guys, and hopefully you've been able to mention some of your issues on the surveys, because I would hate to see Lexus slip and get to the level of its underperforming competitors. According to "The Lexus Story", which I read from cover-to-cover, they had a similar situation in the mid-90s, with certain mechanical issues and company/dealer arrogance. This led to lower sales and much lower JD Power scores. If memory serves me right, I don't think they moved back to number 1 until the early 00s again. They listened back then when the brand was 5 years old, and I hope they do so again.

Sorry for the long post. I only joined the Lexus family a year ago, and it truly has been a much better experience than with any other car I've owned, and also better than that of friends and family with Mercedes and BMW vehicles.

Good luck to all of you resolving your issues. I can imagine how frustrating it feels.

 

I just can not refrain from responding to this thread. I purchased 2 cars , an SC430 and a LS430 witin three months last year. I will have to say that my experience with the dealer was absolutely atrocious and the experience with the SC was the same. To a lesser degree the LS has not been something that I would shout praises for the car from a mountain top. Frustration does not adequately describe my sentiments. The SC is long gone and the LS will soon fall into that same category. I will have to admit that the dealership serves good coffee and Lexus plus the dealer send pretty letters. If I wanted coffee I would have gone to a good coffee shop. If I wanted fantasy literature I would have read Harry Potter. The Ultimate Pursuit or Passionate of Perfection is merely a catchy phrase created by their ad agency. My summary of the experience with Lexus is that it sucks.

 

I know that we have talked about poor dealership experiences before Lou. I think that it is hit or miss with dealerships ... some good, some atrocious. I was wondering what your Mercedes experience has been like?
The LS430 is not nearly as bulletproof as I thought it was supposed to be, but I still love it and will keep it for some time.

FRed

 

I live in Sacramento and have dealt with the Von Housen group that was sold to a nationally sindicated group about a year ago. What is interesting is that with the Von Housen Group I vowed never to business with them again even though I had purchased 3 cars from them in 3 years. I know I am a slow learner. When I got the bum's rush from Lexus of Sacramento with the SC 430 I reluctantly went back not knowing of the change in ownership. The experience was night and day; the arrogance of the sales group was gone, the "Wizzard" who did the price negotiation from behind closed doors was accessible, in fact the closed doors and wall from which he operated was removed. When I took my SL55 in for the 1,000 check up the service was impecable. (Much to the dismay of the Mercedes bashers on this forum that is the only time it has been in for any type of service in 9 months of ownership)

What is truly amazing is almost all of the same people who were there before were still there except for the sales manager and the general manager. It is all a matter of philosophy and culture that makes or breaks customer service and committment. Based on my most recent experiences I will certainly purchase another Mercedes from them. Likewise because of my treatment by Lexus in Sacramento I will not buy a Lexus as long as I am here.

I own my own business and preach customer service to all of my employees constantly. As I learned a long time ago its is easy to gain a new customer and next to impossible to recapture a lost one.

 

"It is easy to gain a customer,and next to impossible to recapture a lost one" lkirchner, when you said that it desribed what I feel like is missing at a number of Lexus dealers. I have had 2 experiences at different dealerships. 1st was here in Va Beach and 2nd was in Silver Spring,Md (Darcars). Both were not good experiences for me, even though the Va Beach one started of positive it ended negatively. They don't in my opinion belive the positive part of what you said about customers. Unfortunately, I see that all customers aren't treated the same due to some positive and negative remarks on this Thread. Its safe to say its not always the dealers fault, at times customers can be jerks. I'll admit i have been a jerk at times. Still nothing can keep things from getting out of hand at such a great car company like lexus than great customer service. It makes those nagging issues with your car seem not as bad when your treated like its not your fault the maker of the car made a mistake. At times i feel ashamed to even call when my car has an issue, man isn't that crazy, feeling like a kid who just got in trouble at school when my car has an issue, i'm 32 for crying out loud ! (GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME AND IF I LOSE MY LEXUS AND MY HOUSE HE STILL WILL BE. HE BROUGHT ME UP FROM DOWN AND CAN DO IT AGAIN! HOLD YOUR HEAD UP GULF COASTUSA! )

 

1: The right side mirror doesn’t close entirely sometimes, we have it on automatic. Fixed twice under warrantee, problem under control so far.
2: The A/C unit would smell weird (humid sand) at the start = so we changed the whole a/c unit last month, problem solved.
3: Automatic door closers (driver and rear right passenger) would make a very low whistling sound (fixed twice, under warantee)
4: The rear sunshade went up from one side and not the other. (But I think that was my mothers fault, she puts her scarf back there sometimes) fixed under warrantee.

Those minor problems occurred over 4 years, that’s excellent .

daryll40, I don’t agree with you in that the LS430 sells mainly because it’s reliable. It sells because it’s an AMAZING and INCREDIBLE car… we’ve had ours for 4 years now, and I still smile every time I see it (because I know what this car is capable of )
I just love the details in this car… it feels like every inch in this car was designed to do something. The LS’s interior has a solution to everything that might annoy you.
It drives incredibly, it’s very smooth, soft over bumps, quiet and ultra comfortable. It’s also very powerful, and yea I know alota cars today are faster (m45, gs430, 7series, s500, is350 etc) but with 0-60 ranging from 6.3 to 6.5 seconds, it’s hardly slow.. trust me the LS moves and you feel it in your stomach (quietly, without all the fuss). Oh and of course, I love that muted growl that comes somewhere from the front when you floor it lol, and after a few seconds you look down at the speedometer and realize: ohoho wow wow **** im doing 140km/hr = 86 miles/hr and this car is still whispering and vibration-free. And this, that was a once in a lifetime experience, my dad did 210 km/hr = 130 miles/hr for about 2+ minutes and it was the same story; whispering and vibration-free, Now THAT is what I call ENGENERING. What’s even more interesting, is that I was sitting in the back with my legs slightly stretched and one foot over the other, all calm , looking out the window at nothing but the desert. (weird, since I usually scream like a little girl when someone goes fast, j/k, but not really)
It is one of the safest cars out there if I were ever to get involved in a crash (my dad did once with a camaro, and no he wasn’t doing 130miles, just around 40; outa nowhere camaro guy wanted to do a left u-turn while he was on the 3rd lane/right, Saudi style, so my dad tailed him 180) after that, his respect for the LS grew even more. It handles great ( yes I know that most cars in the competition handle slightly better, but for every day driving the LS is excellent, so are the brakes)
I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. For me, having 4 small problems wont get me going to a merc or bmw dealer the next time I purchase a car. Sure a 90-99MY ls400 owners could say, never had a single problem, and I hear a lot of that but then again the ls430 has waay more stuff, so the probability of having problems is increased. But would you rather have an ls400 or a ls430? As far as I know, most of the cars from the competition have more problems, so if you’re concerned about lexus reliability, then you would probably go nuts if u purchased a bmw, mb, audi, or even infiniti.

 

My experience at DarCars (Silver Spring, MD) was atrocious. Never been treated like that by any business before. Would never recommend that dealership. The nearest dealership to me is in Lewistown Pennsylvania, and this also was a terrible experience. It seems that if you don't buy your car from Lash Lexus in Lewistown PA, they are not even interested in providing service. They even had the nerve to bill me for something that I didn't agree to and then forge my signature on the bill. I was subsequently sent a letter from the owner of the dealership, who stated that he did not want me to return to his dealership because I had called the Better Business Bureau about the incident.

Currently I have found an excellent dealership, albeit 2 hours away, that is providing the service that my car needs.

It really isn't the fact that things go wrong with the car, it's how the issues are dealt with. I love my car, but I probably will look at another brand next time as I don't have a good dealer nearby. It just isn't worth the hassle. BTW my wife's 2003 ML350 has never had a problem, only gets serviced once a year and the dealership is very professional, so bashing Mercedes is something I certainly won't do.

With respect to value, Lexus has the most. A comparable S430 with all the features costs much more and the 7-series is not my cup of tea (Too much bling etc).

My guess is the variation in dealership experiences shapes our opinions of Lexus as a brand and it's reliability. Currently dealerships are batting .333 with me

Fred

 

in fact it has hired the Gallup organization to poll existing owners on a random basis and not just when they have purchased or had service. What do they measure? Customer engagement towards Lexus the Brand and your Lexus Dealership. If there is symmetry between the two parts of the survey then it is a good sign that your feelings are consistent with your dealer relationship. If the dealer score is low then the dealer will get dented in their overall rating and they will be notified. If you leave Lexus and go to another brand then you get another survey designed to find out why. Lexus even surveyed other luxury brands owners to find out how they faired in comparison. They found out a lot. Lexus is without question the highest rated brand in customer engagement and customer loyalty. It is not even close...

The 2004 Model year was pivotal for the LS430. It had over 20 improvements and was a "refresh" in the front look of the car. It has a six speed transmission with a sequential shift slot. This transmission was recalled because a tab that was supposed to stop the driver from taking it out of Park without their foot on the brake could shear off and fall into the transmission and foul up the works if someone forced it out of Park. This happened to two cars and Lexus decided to replace all of the existing transmissions with a new design. Sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease as transmission replacement is not common to Lexus history. This is the reason the Consumer's reports lowered the rating. JD Power surveys have the LS430 as the best Sedan in the world for fewest problems in Initial Quality for six years in a row. The only car to rank higher is the SC430 coupe/convertible which is made in the same factory in Tahara, Japan. That factory has the highest rating of any factory in the World today by JD Power and has a Platinum rating.

The 2004 model had improvements in acceleration, 5.9 seconds 0-60 vs 6.3 seconds the previous year. They added a limited slip differential to help keep it straight when accelerating on wet pavement. The coolant interval for maintenance was extended to 100,000 miles from 30,000 miles. The "WS" transmission fluid flows better at extreme temperatures and doesn't need replacement, hence no dipstick. I have never heard of an engine failure in an LS430, SC430, GS430 etc. but there must be someone that has. It doesn't pollute and has a ULEV rating. Lexus has never had a customer pay a gas guzzler tax because they are very fuel efficient. I have heard of Porsche's with blown engines at 1,000 miles. 500 SL's with blown transmissions at 1,000 miles. "S" Class Mercedes that just stopped running in the middle of the highway without warning. Just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. BTW, I worked for Mercedes for 6 years...

Rock

 

Most on this site who haven't had bad experiences can't relate to those of us like me and diesel11 and others who have. Darcars is a very unethical dealership top to bottom, my point is this, i called Lexus corporate and know at least 5 others with complaints who called corporate offices. They say at corporate they can't tell franchises how to deal with my complaint or other Lexus customers. In my opinion this is a cop out. Lexus corporate doesn't care about the customer, they care only about getting paid when the franchised dealer sends them there check for the cars they sold. That is the end of there liability. Outside of recalled parts they don't seem to care. I think most people are still allowing Lexus to get away with problems with the cars because of the hassle of putting in a complaint. I usta be a none complainer until my girlfriend made me see the light. In a nutshell what im saying is,(example) we shouldn't care about a cure for cancer when we get it, we should care when the other guy has it. That guy or girl could be us. Just like i have some issues with service and reliability and you may not now, but its no reason to say that people like me and diesel11 are wrong for stating that we do. I thought this was a site for consumers, not dealership owners, some of you talk as if you have stock in lexus. Remember we are the sheep, Lexus is the wolf why do we support the wolf eating the sheep. Darcars and Va Beach Lexus depend on us not taking a stand and we don't take one. Its time we look at truth Lexus is slipping when they have to lie to sell me a car and tell me if i buy from another dealer they won't do my service thats flat out wrong. If you go to McDonalds and buy a burger thats uncooked, does that reflect on just that McDonalds, or do you think, what is McDonalds doing serving me bad food. Great companies give great customer service. Man, Mercedes in Hampton, Va picks you up from your home for your service, you don't even have to drive your car to the dealer for service and they leave the loaner with you. After service is done they do the same in returning your car. Lexus in my opinion has a long way to go, i have dealt with both car companies. 2 different Mercedes dealers and 2 different Lexus dealers, and whats the chance that both Benz dealers treated me with respect for my $80,000 and $48,000 purchases. And lexus treated me poorly with the 5 purchases from them . After i get rid of this LS430 no more lexus' ,2 for 2 bad experieces from different Lexus dealerships is enough. Quality wise Mercedes is behind Lexus but I'd rather not be lied to and deal with a company that has honor and dignity. No disrespect to those who choose Lexus over Benz i respect your choice but the darkness will come to light with Lexus . I after today will say no more of my past displeasure until a new incident occurs, one has but I won't post it, im tired of Lexus' GREED. THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST. (GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME)

 

Diesel11 there (Lexus ) batting .000 with me. I understand the things we buy aren't supposed to be perfect, nothing in this world is, but like me and you have both said its the treatment that makes it worse or better. I have had bad meals, but good service by waiters and still gave a big tip. I won't blame the waiter for the cook. The people at dealership don't make the cars they sell them.So the dealer is the face of the car company to the consumer.Peolpe have become more savy as to overall treatment and price of there purchases. We never in most cases ever see the people who make Lexus'. Please Lexus check the attitude of these dealerships you allow to sell you product, before you get exposed by Dateline NBC!!!!!!!! We all know there always looking for a story.(GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME)

 

had the rear air suspension shock replaced...

 

Sometimes people on these forums only read a small portion of a thread and then they give their 'detailed' opinion after.

usermel and I were not saying that the LS430 is un-reliable. We were saying that it is not bulletproof and that the real issue was the treatment (or lack there of) by the dealers. Lexus has a real problem in this area... here are my thoughts why:

1. The cars are fairly problem free, so when you have a real problem with the dealership, it stands out by contrast.
2. Lexus' cars pretty much sell themselves and some of the dealerships have realized they don't have to try very hard anymore. The guys at GM and Ford have to try harder, because their product isn't as good.
3. After dealing with Lexus USA on 2 separate occasions, I do fully concur with Usermel. Their main objective is to 'handle' you, but they don't really care. Their objective is to sell cars to their dealerships and they don't want to be too hard on them. Honestly in my dealings with Lexus USA I do believe (especially with the Silver Spring dealership) that they helped resolve the situation. However, that situation was primarily resolved by me calling the dealership every single day for 2 weeks.
4. I am aware of 2 people (myself and one of my colleagues) who have been 'kicked out' of the Lash Lexus dealership in Lewistown, PA.... by a type-writer written letter, because we simply made complaints. My guess is that Lexus has thought of ways to get themselves out of Lewistown but that it isn't that easy for them. Who still writes letters with a type-writer anymore???
5. Lexus customers are somewhat more difficult. I know I can be. Very few situations in life are truly black and white, but if Lexus wants to sell expensive cars, they better get used to this.


There are some worrisome posts on this forum that sound like they are from people who work for Lexus in some regard. They are reasonably obvious.

Lastly, I would like to mention my MB dealership. We have a 2003 ML350. Never a problem. The dealership is very couteous. Our salesman was top-notch. I am aware that many people with our ML 350 have had big problems with the vehicle and their dealerships. I sometimes wonder if the people on the Mercedes forums are crazy when they describe their problems and experiences with the dealerships. I suspect that this is what people who have only had good dealership expeiences think of usermel and me.

Just my 2 cents
Fred

 

and have an axe to grind. That being said they have valid opinions and experiences. Are these very common? I doubt it. Dealerships vary greatly in their management styles and histories. It takes quite a bit of wrangling for a dealership to write off a customer but in today's enviroment of consumer satisfaction surveys I can see that the Pa. dealer is trying to cut their losses. Our dealership has pick up and delivery service with a Lexus loaner but that is not enough these days. Most dealerships have a person that attends to any issues that arise from a service visit. I would not be able to do that job for the General Manager's salary. The regional offices have a customer relations department and then there is Torrance, California which is the epicenter or Lexus USA. To say that the people at Lexus don't really care is mindreading at its extreme. To make generalizations about a large Corporation's mentality is sketchy at best. I'm sure Usermel and Diesel11 feel slighted and they are venting here on this forum which is free speech at its finest. Lexus is the big bad Wolf and we are the three little Pigs or sheep? The examples given about product problems are pretty minor and maybe they were exacerbated by poor treatment by the dealership personnel. The situations are specific and not a national trend. I have sympathy yet Lexus will continue to grow and prosper because they are always trying to improve. In fifteen years they have left Mercedes out of contention and now have only BMW to compete against in sales volume here in the US. The new product offerings are aimed directly at Bavaria even in the brochures. They must be doing something right.....

Rock