I have a starter replacement question for the group
12-12-13, 11:23 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I have a starter replacement question for the group
if there is a fire-related safety recall on the starter solenoid switch that fails on 95-97 LS400 models, and safety recalls never expire, then why are so many folks replacing their own starter contacts, when the Lexus dealership is apparently required by law to do this huge job at their expense?
recall information
recall information
12-12-13, 12:18 PM
#2
A recall is only good for ONE repair so if it was done in the past it is no longer valid. Recalls are also very specific to VINs. Usually the easiest way to find out if your car does have a recall would be to call Lexus customer service 1 (800) 255-3987 and they can tell you.
12-12-13, 12:20 PM
#3
if there is a fire-related safety recall on the starter solenoid switch that fails on 95-97 LS400 models, and safety recalls never expire, then why are so many folks replacing their own starter contacts, when the Lexus dealership is apparently required by law to do this huge job at their expense?
recall information
recall information
Yes. There is a limitation based on the age of the vehicle. In order to be eligible for a free remedy, the vehicle cannot be more than 10 years old on the date the defect or noncompliance is determined. Under the law, the age of the vehicle is calculated from the date of sale to the first purchaser.
12-12-13, 12:32 PM
#4
I work for a manufacturer and deal with lots of vehicles and our recalls do not expire, but yes recalls can by law expire after 10 years. Anything after 10 years is probably going to depend on the manufacturer and what the recall was for.
12-12-13, 02:37 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
according to the link PD provided, this is not clear at all - in the case of the first purchaser, the sale date was 1995, the "date the defect or noncompliance is determined" was 1998, that is 3 years, which is very much inside the 10 year window!
read this quote carefully:
read this quote carefully:
There is a limitation based on the age of the vehicle. In order to be eligible for a free remedy, the vehicle cannot be more than 10 years old on the date the defect or noncompliance is determined. Under the law, the age of the vehicle is calculated from the date of sale to the first purchaser. For example, if a defect is found in 2003 and a recall ordered, manufacturers are required to make the correction available at no charge only for vehicles purchased new in 1994 through 2003.
12-12-13, 02:58 PM
#7
Actually that is perfectly clear.
Basically what it is saying that if the defect happens to stretch back 10years through a product line, and assuming the car is owned by the original purchaser, then that person is entitled to a free repair. That said, if they found a safety defect to that same 1998 car today, it would be out of the 10year range, and unlikely owned by the original purchaser, so thus not eligable for the free repair. BUT, if that car had a model life until 2004, and the problem affected all cars in that range, then peopl who purchased the car 10years ago today and newer would still be covered.
Now as an example, the Pontiac Aztec could be purchase new, as much as 4 years after they stopped selling them. There were a few GM dealerships up here that had to auction them off for pennies on the dollar because even the wholesalers wouldn't buy them. So in this rare case you would be buying a 2004 car, but because you bought it in 2008, your warranty window would extend to 2018 where as someone who bought one in 2004 would only be covered to 2014.
The 10years backdated part is more for domestic cars which often run 4-8years with little to no revisions to the chassis or power train. Japanese car makers tend to do major updates or completely new cars every 2-5years so you aren't likely to see the same problem span a decades worth of cars.
Basically what it is saying that if the defect happens to stretch back 10years through a product line, and assuming the car is owned by the original purchaser, then that person is entitled to a free repair. That said, if they found a safety defect to that same 1998 car today, it would be out of the 10year range, and unlikely owned by the original purchaser, so thus not eligable for the free repair. BUT, if that car had a model life until 2004, and the problem affected all cars in that range, then peopl who purchased the car 10years ago today and newer would still be covered.
Now as an example, the Pontiac Aztec could be purchase new, as much as 4 years after they stopped selling them. There were a few GM dealerships up here that had to auction them off for pennies on the dollar because even the wholesalers wouldn't buy them. So in this rare case you would be buying a 2004 car, but because you bought it in 2008, your warranty window would extend to 2018 where as someone who bought one in 2004 would only be covered to 2014.
The 10years backdated part is more for domestic cars which often run 4-8years with little to no revisions to the chassis or power train. Japanese car makers tend to do major updates or completely new cars every 2-5years so you aren't likely to see the same problem span a decades worth of cars.
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12-12-13, 03:18 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
again, that is not what the rule is stating, there is a 3 year time span in my example, which is far less than 10
and another thing, I had a very old Honda (1979) which the seat belts wouldn't retract, and there had been a recall in 1981 (2 year span) - I went to the dealership in 2003 and complained, and they said, "No problem, that is covered under the "campaign" (recall) and they fixed my seat belts on a 24 year old car! (they explained that safety recalls never expire)
and another thing, I had a very old Honda (1979) which the seat belts wouldn't retract, and there had been a recall in 1981 (2 year span) - I went to the dealership in 2003 and complained, and they said, "No problem, that is covered under the "campaign" (recall) and they fixed my seat belts on a 24 year old car! (they explained that safety recalls never expire)
Last edited by LScowboyLS; 12-12-13 at 03:22 PM.
12-12-13, 04:08 PM
#9
If it is unclear, just call NHTSA and I'm sure they will clarify, also bet if you call a manufacturer they will tell you they do not expire. You will get the complete opposite answer.
12-12-13, 04:49 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
here is how the 10 year rule reads, if you stop and read it carefully.
for the sake of this example, let's say that the LS400 had been manufactured since 1985, and all LS400's were affected by the starter issue, the recall is announced in 1998, which because of the 10 year limitation, it means that cars built prior to the 1989 model year are not covered.
I see nothing about an expiration on how soon the owner must actually get the work done. The 10 year rule seems to be a limit on how many previous model years the manufacturer is liable for. Nor do I see anything about you needing to be the original owner of the car. This would explain why they were happy to fix my 24 year old Honda!
for the sake of this example, let's say that the LS400 had been manufactured since 1985, and all LS400's were affected by the starter issue, the recall is announced in 1998, which because of the 10 year limitation, it means that cars built prior to the 1989 model year are not covered.
I see nothing about an expiration on how soon the owner must actually get the work done. The 10 year rule seems to be a limit on how many previous model years the manufacturer is liable for. Nor do I see anything about you needing to be the original owner of the car. This would explain why they were happy to fix my 24 year old Honda!
12-12-13, 05:57 PM
#11
Of the 4 recall notices I have received over the years, they all had a limitation of 10years on them.
From the same link:
Limitations on recalls are set because of the "expected life time" of the problem area. If the recall is on a safety related item like seats, seat belts, steering wheels, brake pedals etc, then they can be valid for the lifetime of the car, assuming it was never fixed when the recall was first announced.
But for recalls on wearable parts, it is not a "get out of jail free card" that you can keep in your back pocket for when the part fails years down the road...
Also, the assumption you made in your first post is that nobody has had the recall done, and this is/could be the reason for the starter failures. Most people who buy a Lexus new, tend to own it for at the least 4years which means that the dealer would have contacted them directly about the recall and likely would have had it fixed... If the dealer serviced the car during the time of the recall, they would have gone ahead and done it the first service it was back at the dealer for. This is pretty much standard practice for dealers and recalls, and as someone who claims to have worked for the biggest lexus dealer in the state/country/world/whatever... This should be common knowledge.
I'm not sure about the US, but up here in Canada, if a car gets traded into a dealer, the dealer has to run a recall search and get all recalls fixed before they resell it or wholesale it. When I say dealer I mean Ford/Honda/Toyota/Lexus/etc.
While it's possible that some people could have the recall open on their cars, the dealer does not have to honour it based on the "reasonable amount of time" statement quoted above.
One other thing to consider is if the recall was done and or the starter was replaced at one point in the past 15years and you convince the dealer to do it. If they find non OEM parts or the correct parts in there, the. You're payng dealer labour and part rates!
From the same link:
What if I'm denied the right to have a recalled vehicle remedied at no charge?
If a dealer refuses to repair your vehicle in accordance with the recall letter you received from the manufacturer, you should immediately notify the manufacturer. In most cases, contractual agreements between a manufacturer and its dealers require all dealers to honor the recall and remedy defects at no extra charge – regardless of where the vehicle or equipment was originally purchased.
Under the law, if a vehicle recall has been initiated, consumers are entitled to the remedy without charge and within a reasonable time. In most cases, there will be a time lag between the date of the manufacturer’s decision that a recall is warranted or the agency’s final decision, and the date the remedy is available to consumers.
This time is provided to allow manufacturers to identify owners of vehicles or equipment included in the recall, develop remedial procedures, instruct dealers on how to repair the defect, distribute the parts necessary for repair or replacement to the dealerships, and send letters to consumers informing them how the recall campaign will be conducted. A dealer is not required by law to remedy a defect in a vehicle brought in for repair before this date.
Although consumers demanding immediate correction may feel they are not receiving satisfactory resolution of the problem, there is no legal recourse available at this stage – patience is the only alternative. In instances where a manufacturer needs extended time to develop a remedy, the agency may require the manufacturer to send an interim notice to consumers that contains any short-term actions that the consumer may take to lessen the likelihood that the defect will occur.
If a dealer refuses to repair your vehicle in accordance with the recall letter you received from the manufacturer, you should immediately notify the manufacturer. In most cases, contractual agreements between a manufacturer and its dealers require all dealers to honor the recall and remedy defects at no extra charge – regardless of where the vehicle or equipment was originally purchased.
Under the law, if a vehicle recall has been initiated, consumers are entitled to the remedy without charge and within a reasonable time. In most cases, there will be a time lag between the date of the manufacturer’s decision that a recall is warranted or the agency’s final decision, and the date the remedy is available to consumers.
This time is provided to allow manufacturers to identify owners of vehicles or equipment included in the recall, develop remedial procedures, instruct dealers on how to repair the defect, distribute the parts necessary for repair or replacement to the dealerships, and send letters to consumers informing them how the recall campaign will be conducted. A dealer is not required by law to remedy a defect in a vehicle brought in for repair before this date.
Although consumers demanding immediate correction may feel they are not receiving satisfactory resolution of the problem, there is no legal recourse available at this stage – patience is the only alternative. In instances where a manufacturer needs extended time to develop a remedy, the agency may require the manufacturer to send an interim notice to consumers that contains any short-term actions that the consumer may take to lessen the likelihood that the defect will occur.
But for recalls on wearable parts, it is not a "get out of jail free card" that you can keep in your back pocket for when the part fails years down the road...
Also, the assumption you made in your first post is that nobody has had the recall done, and this is/could be the reason for the starter failures. Most people who buy a Lexus new, tend to own it for at the least 4years which means that the dealer would have contacted them directly about the recall and likely would have had it fixed... If the dealer serviced the car during the time of the recall, they would have gone ahead and done it the first service it was back at the dealer for. This is pretty much standard practice for dealers and recalls, and as someone who claims to have worked for the biggest lexus dealer in the state/country/world/whatever... This should be common knowledge.
I'm not sure about the US, but up here in Canada, if a car gets traded into a dealer, the dealer has to run a recall search and get all recalls fixed before they resell it or wholesale it. When I say dealer I mean Ford/Honda/Toyota/Lexus/etc.
While it's possible that some people could have the recall open on their cars, the dealer does not have to honour it based on the "reasonable amount of time" statement quoted above.
One other thing to consider is if the recall was done and or the starter was replaced at one point in the past 15years and you convince the dealer to do it. If they find non OEM parts or the correct parts in there, the. You're payng dealer labour and part rates!
12-12-13, 07:06 PM
#12
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
One other thing to consider is if the recall was done and or the starter was replaced at one point in the past 15years and you convince the dealer to do it. If they find non OEM parts or the correct parts in there, the. You're payng dealer labour and part rates!
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