midwest2

Hello all,

I have a 96 LS400 with 145K miles on the car. In the last month or so I have had an intermittent problem when trying to start the car. At times it will turn over, weakly, for about 1 second and then the starter stops---there is no clicking associated with this. When this occurs I turn the ignition off and then restart the car, at that time the starter spins like normal and the car fires right up. At other times I turn the key and get nothing, no audible click. When this happens I still have dash lights. Once again cycling the key fixes the problem.

Being that my battery was 5-6 yrs old I replaced it even thought it checked out OK. That was yesterday and the problem happened again this morning, weak turn-over, then ignition off and back on and then perfect spinning starter.

At this point I assume I have either a ground problem or a bad starter. Can a starter spin poorly and then work perfect a few seconds later? What would be the most suspect ground point to check? I did turn on my lights and then start the car to see if the headlights dimmed excessively while the starter was spinning--they did not. Any advice from the pros here is greatly appreciated. I have a spare car so I might try the starter myself and hit the egr pipe while the intake is off.


96 LS400 145K
2003 LS430 135K
2000 LX470 124K

2GSKaizen

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like your starter solenoid, or possibly the brushes in the starter are starting to go out. Those brushes arc every time you turn your starter on, and gradually wear out just like points in an old distributor ignition system. Check both + and - connections on the battery for good connection. I would also check the positive wire connection at the starter (large wire) and the smaller wire that goes to the solenoid of the starter. If those are good I would most certainly suspect the starter itself. I do believe this starter is a pain because its located in the V of the engine valley under the intake. One of the LS guys would have better instructions on how to gain access to the starter. I just got my first GS with the V-8 and haven't had to deal with that yet.

midwest2

After a more in-depth search, it looks like bad news. DAMN..................The battery is new and the connections are prestine. I need to check my grounds.

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

when mine acted like that I had to replace the solenoid, that was 2 years ago, no problems since.
I removed the intake, then the two bolts holding the starter motor on, then I could get to the solenoid easily: see photos

LScowboyLS

the job that Billy has photographed is a BEAR!

allow about 3 days of work!!

and make sure you replace the knock sensors while you are in there, sure wouldn't want to do that job twice, back to back!!

there are some grounds on the back of the engine (both sides), and a big one the runs from the A/C compressor to the wall below the battery, make sure bolt going into compressor ground is tight!

midwest2

New starter and EGR pipe is on the way from Sewell. However, this morning the car started but it is making a noise that sounds like the starter isn't fully disengaging from the ring gear. I have never heard of a starter doing that, but the noise is definetly coming from the rear of the engine. I am going to roll the dice that is the problem instead of some other horribly expensive issue. The car will be sitting until the parts arrive.

The local shop I use is charging $600 labor for the starter and egr pipe r/r.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

3 days of work to replace a starter???

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

just looked it up and bill time on a starter R&R is 3.5-5hours for a 96 LS400...
definitely not a 3day job...

midwest2

It would probably take me 3 days to do it! Interestingly I spoke to one of the mechanics at the shop where I am taking it. He was actually working on a GM Northstar starter that has the same starter set-up as the LS400. He said he can have a Northstar starter out in 30 min, I guess he has done a bunch of them. He made the point that some traditionally mounted starters can require as much work to r/r than one in the valley. He wasn't real concerned with the LS400 layout.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

lol, i was actually going to mention the same motor. Once you know the tricks, they are super quick to do.

these types of starter jobs are pretty easy to do, you just have to work through things logically and methodically.
having the right tools also makes a huge difference in how long it takes to do the job but 3 days to replace a starter means you were crushing beers and watching a lot of TV while "working" on the car... or at least as far as the wife is concerned...

even so, starter labor rate at most shops would be around $300 +/- $50

midwest2

I was happy, now I feel like I'm getting ripped off! What is your opinion of the noise I tried to explain? It is from the back of the engine and can only be a few things.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

I don't know what it costs to replace the EGR tube. Just call and ask before you assume you are getting ripped off.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

I was just over at my friends shop and his older version of AllData said its a 6.8hr job to R&R the starter on a 96... His system is usually pretty accurate which changes the labor cost total to much closer to what you were quoted.

Still, 3 days is extreme.
1.5days seems reasonable if you are fixing and cleaning a lot of little other things while you are in there.

mikes7ke

iTrader: (1)

I wad something on lextreme something about some guys making holes and relocating the starter mounting belts to make the job less difficult next time. If they're going through that much trouble preparing for the next time, well that says a lot to me.

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

my EGR tube was about 2-3 hours from the bottom, had to remove RH Cat to do it. starter was about 5 hours, including some rest time....