deanshark

Ya might have read, last week, my car (93 LS 126k) was running good then a drone noise and no power. I limped it home feeling like 4 cylinders. It completely stopped running 3 feet from my driveway. Checked everything like spark, fuel, cam and crank sensors, everything turned out good. Then, for some reason, I figured I'd check the timing marks. Guess what, they don't line up. The crank and left (drivers) cam pulley lines up. The right cam pulley mark is back 6 teeth. The belt still looks good, only 14k miles on belt, idlers, and tensioner. WTF?? I don't get it, any ideas on how this could have happened?
Another t-belt job??? I did it last winter when it was cold out.
TIA

randal

On the + side, you have a non-interference engine so no damage. You ARE talking about the timing marks on the pulleys and not the belt, right? The cams should line up every 2 revolutions of the crank. I do not see how it could have jumped that much unless the tensioner is bad (you pulled the pin of course? sorry gotta ask).
Was the water pump changed at the same time as the belt? A frozen pump bearing could wreak all sorts of havoc on the TB.

deanshark

To answer your questions; Yea + side, I bought this b/c it's non-interference. Yes I'm looking at the timing marks on the pulleys. Like I said, it is 14k miles old so yes I pulled the pin on the tensioner. (last year) Yes the water pump was changed when I did the belt.

I looked at it some more last night and I can see some oil inside the #2 timing cover so, I think, some oil got on the belt and it slipped. But that would mean the cam pulley would have went almost one full turn. I guess I'm pulling this engine apart again. Last time I didn't change the cam seals b/c it looked ok. Are they hard to change, where's the best place to get them? I'm doing this in 20* weather, brrrrr. Gotta love New England

willhickey

iTrader: (1)

cam sears are easy if your doing the timing belt, how are the rotors? mine busted and got lodged in the timing belt... id check those if I was you, it took me forever to figure out

deanshark

I'm sure the rotors are good but they will be coming off anyway when I pull the t-belt so I'll check them. I might just get new ones anyway, they have 14k miles so what the hell. I already got new plug wires, for free. I need to get a new t-belt b/c this one has oil on it. I don't think I need the idlers and tensioner or water pump. I can't believe, b/c I didn't change $15 worth of seals last year, that I have to do this again. I didn't realize the cam and crank seals should have been changed or I deffenately would have done them while everything was out. Usually I change everything I can to new so something like this doesn't happen. I keep calling myself an idiot but, ***** happens. At least changing it this time won't take so much labor but it will take longer b/c it's so friggin cold. (teens and 20s) Oh well.

randal

I do not see how a bit of oil getting on the belt would cause it to slip. There are some pretty big teeth on those sprockets and lots of tension (if your tensioner is working properly). What I am trying to say is that when you further investigate, you may want to carefully look for the cause. It not likely due to some oil leaking. Perhaps the one cam pulley keying is off/loose?

I sure hope you have a heated garage to do this work. This is no job to be doing outside on a cold, January, New England day! brrrrr.

Did you use Toyota parts when you did the belt?

deanshark

I will check everything VERY carefully when it is off but I am pretty sure it is just due to the oil getting on the belt. But thanx for the thought.
No, I do not have a heated, or even unheated, garage to do this work. The sun doesn't even shine on my parking spot. Last year I did this job outside in Dec., in the sun, but it was alot warmer then it's gonna be this week or next.
No I didn't use an OEM t-belt, this time I will. After doing more reading (throughout this past year) I found out that the aftermarket belts are known to slip like this even w/o oil on them. So I am even more convinced this is b/c of the oil. When I was checking for spark and everything the cam was spinning at normal speed. Both were same speed.

randal

I sure do not envy you at all in this weather. Maybe you can at least get her out of the wind. I have heard of guys putting a large tarp over the front of the car to work on it. Kinda cozy. Some heavy Carhartts and you are good to go!

You may find with non-OEM parts, that the teeth are partially sheared off or damaged. Or your tensioner failed. I hope you take some pics of the old belt and let us know what you find. Best wishes!!

deanshark

Well, I took the t-belt off today. ( It was warm today, 25*) The belt looked fine, no missing teeth or any damage, just oil on it. I pulled the cam pulleys and the seals are leaking a little. Pulled the crank pulley and thought, holy cow why didn't this thing slip sooner. It was leaking so bad it's unreal. So I'm pretty sure that was the problem. The idlers still spin freely and the tensioner is all the way out so I'm pretty sure that's working fine. I just need to figure out how I'm gonna compress it w/o a vise. They all only have 14k miles on them. I'm not gonna change the water pump b/c it's new and was working fine. What brand T-belt does everyone recomend? I went cheap last time, not again. Also I can't seem to find part #s for the cam and crank seals on Lexus sites, anyone know?
On a side note, I'm gonna relax a few days b/c we're getting 10 inches of snow tonight and the next few days are low single digits. I can work if it's in the 20s, maybe next week.

IS3_FTW

iTrader: (3)

If you can find part #s, you can go here for cheap OEM parts

www.1sttoyotaparts.com

twofanman

Try these. Prices are at Sewell.

Camshaft seal - 90311-38036 Lexus OEM Oil (For Camshaft Setting) Seal $7.60

Crankshaft seal (@ oil pump) - 90311-A0001 Lexus OEM Seal (For Oil Pump) $7.53

deanshark

I can't believe it's been a month and a half since I drove my car. I got new idlers b/c one was leaking the bearing grease. (warranty) I ordered the belt, tensioner, and seals from a popular dealer from this site, I wont mention a name b/c they are WELL recomended and this is my 1st problem with them. Anyway, I sent payment, plus 3 phone calls, and haven't gotten the parts for 3 weeks now. So I placed an order yesterday, this time from Rockauto, and they are coming tomorrow so I should have this done over the weekend. It's supposed to be up to 30* and finally NO snow. After further investigation I found the tensioner wasn't out far enough, (no clue on how that could have happened) and the belt looked like some of the threads in it were stretched. (Idk) I guess I might have been wrong thinking oil made the belt slip, unless oil weakened the belt and stretched. I'll update more when I'm done.

deanshark

DONE. I finished it up today, we had some 50* weather the past 2 days. Out of the month and a half it was sitting I think the total work time was only about 12 hours. (taking my time) I did waste a couple hours, I tore it back down a little to make sure I had the rotors on the right way. After I did all that I realized they can only fit on 1 way. It started right up with a 1 second crank of the key. The thing smoked like crazy though, I nearly **** my pants thinking the head gasket was blown or something. (No smell to the smoke) After letting it idle for about 10 min, turned it off for about 15 min, fired it back up, took it for a ride and no more smoke. It might have been from the PS pump, which I need to change before I blow another alternator. When I first took off the tranny felt like it wouldn't shift to 3rd and I had no brakes, I think the vacuum had to build up b/c everything is fine now. It feels nice knowing I can go out and start it up and not have to call someone for a ride, I hate doing that. Now my blood pressure can start going back down.

twofanman

Congrats deanshark! You’re now swimming with the fishes again That first startup after major work is always a nail biter for me. Did you ever settle on a probable cause for the belt slip?

deanshark

Thanks man, right now I feel like I'm "sleepin" with the fishes. Regarding the cause of the slip, it was 1 of 3 things. (or all 3) 1. The tensioner was out of spec. It wasn't out far enough. (Don't ask me how that could have happened) 2. There was oil on the belt from the cam and/or crank seals. 3. CHEAP aftermarket belt. Like I mentioned before, it looked like the threads in the belt were stretched. I think the oil on the belt weakened it and stretched it I really don't know. The 1 thing I do know is I'll NEVER buy another aftermarket belt again.
It feels so different driving now b/c I'm used to my son's POS Corolla the past 2 months.