Here's a fun one. I installed the RR SC back in november of last year, it's been a hoot with a few hiccups heres and there but that's just what was expected out of a project car.

The issue: Have a low load knock on the engine, only happens at very light throttle, maintaining desired speed between 1.5k-2.5k rpm, throttle input between 1-5%. KFV ranges between -3.2 to -7.0 at times pulling my below 3 kclv down into the dirt. Push just a hair more than 5% throttle, KFV and KCLV gains -2.8-0.0 KCLV gains quickly. A/F ratio is proper for the low load .96-1.02 lambda on the wideband and TS. (I prefer to use lambda btw) and near 14.4-14.8 AFR. A couple times at WOT I could have swore I heard a squeal from the engine, not quite belt squeal seemed more like a high pitch whistle, odd but always let off the throttle immediately, happened twice so far, difficult to replicate, might just be hearing things. Changed the oil before a big cruise with all the F guys here in CO on a saturday, washed the car drove like a grandpa 20 miles and parked it.
Come sunday morning start up car is making a typewriter kind of tick, not the normal driver side tick that has been covered 300 times on CL but seemed to be coming from the passenger side cam area? Thinking perhaps engine didn't get proper oil pressure to the top of the engine I held the RPMs at 3k for about 15 seconds in park then took a hot lap around the block, tick quieted down after a few miles, KFV readout tamed down and KC wasn't being heavily affected. Hunch: Suspected a improperly installed oil filter resulting in low oil pressure, amsoil oil filter sat loosly on the oil filter housing spindle and seemed oversized, compared to the mobile one that fits tight and slips fully onto the spindle.

Suspicious of potential engine failure I decided to compress and check my oil filter media from the previous 5k miles, bingo, media has a light metal dusting on the material best described as a dusting of glitter, no huge pieces but definitely has a shimmer in the sunlight. Some of the larger are about the size of a .05 pencil lead tip. To guess i would say about a grain of rice worth of shavings If I could shake it all out and compress it tightly back into a metal peice. The metallic flakes are magnetic and bright silver.
Rafi at RR sent me a heavily reduced timing tune below 3k as a test to see if it is still pulling gobs of timing, yes. So much so, car was nearly undrivable after the test drive and knock reduced more timing. So it could be theoretically ruled out as a mechanical issue.

Engine: Stock motor 2009 80k mi, sc installed at 70k
e40 fuel
Full RR Kit with intercooler dual BOV's, Rotrex C38 with smaller pulley to compensate for altitude (5200ft),
stock injectors
stock fuel pump
water meth injection
one step colder NGK plugs.

Tuning: Been doing constant changes with RR on the tune, trying to get it dialed in properly at altitude. Ran out of fueling on the top end so added water meth injection (1500cc) to compensate without needing to go with larger injectors, fuel pump, and surge tank. The water/meth seems to confuse the fueling map and leaves a heavy lean spot (1.20 lambda) between 4-5.5k but only at half throttle accelerations, merging or passing. WOT does great just a small hiccup of lean not ideal but not a huge deal. Ive avoided the RPM range as much as possible to avoid accelerated cylinder temps when only using half throttle. Have since gotten remaps for the issue and it is running less lean than previously before

Things I've checked/notes:
No misfires
No CELS
SC bracket is tight, bolts etc, no rubbing
Cold compression check 85 degrees F 160-168 psi ranging from all cylinders, altitude compensation factor for 5300 feet 1.143, adjusted (calculated) psi for sealevel 182-192 psi
No boost leaks
No vacuum leaks to BOV's or manifold nipple
Headers are not touching the subframe, driver side has very small clearance (1/4") to the motor mount compared to the passenger side (1") No visible rubbing marks seen on the bore scope
Air filter is clean, not suspecting MAF at this time
Water meth does not leak
Gen 2 RR AOS is only 6 months old not suspecting any vacuum leaks
Bank 1 and Bank 2 are running similar AFR's on TS

Any ideas? I'm leaning towards these potentials, ringland failure, rod bearings, throttle body issue, dirty or stuck injectors, intake cam phaser (lobux hunch), water/meth pooling or seepage.
I would love to gather some of your guys' thoughts!

It's difficult to hear but can be heard intermittently, and very difficult to isolate where it is coming from with all the engine noise.

 

What hoses and fittings are on your air oil seperator? Are they the click style, or the new hose kit?

what is a KFV reading, and what does it mean? Trying to help and learn at the same time.

 

AOS fittings are the push type compression fittings with the kit, I've had a leak on the first gen AOS with those that caused similar issues, I've added it to my list of things to double check.
KFV- Knock Feedback Value, a numerical readout of knock sensor activity

 

Does that mean your pulling 3-7 degrees of timing due to knock?

 

Not exactly, if im not mistaken its more of a domino effect. I seen your post in the other thread asking for what KFV is, ill break it down. Here's how it works in therory, I might not be completely accurate, but have been monitoring these values with an obsession for years.

KFV is a readout of your knock sensors talking to the ECU. Baseline rest is -3.0 meaning no knock is detected. Under throttle the knock sensors open up and send feedback to the ECU to regulate ignition timing. The range from -2.8 to 0.0 is adding to KCLV, the range from -3.2 to -11 (Don't know how high it goes) will pull KCLV down. The KFV readout will will take your KCLV (knock correction learn value) up or down depending. Base line KCLV is 15.0 with an ECU reset. Its a good tool to use to see how healthy your engine is running. You have a below 3k rpm kclv and an above 3 kclv. Only way to check the above 3 kclv is monitoring with the engine above 3k rpm. KCLV values can range from 5.0 to 25.0 but have seen them as high as 26.2 or so. A healthy engine will run KCLV in the 20's.

KFV talks to KCLV which in turn talks to the ignition timing. If youre at the track with accelerated intake temps you run a higher risk of detonation and the ecu will pull timing to save the motor. Toyota obviously does a great job in doing so and quickly when knock is detected. Hopefully that clears it up for you a little bit.
.

 

Very thorough explanation. Thanks.

I suspect my engine is heat soaking and it pulls power. I also suspect my AITs are getting high while staging. I will monitor those readings and then switch to the oem intake and compare. Otherwise, my timing is really good and it runs great.

Maybe you can thoroughly check for any boost leaks, if you haven’t already. These cars are extremely finicky with timing. The metal in the oil isn’t a great sign, but I don’t have enough knowledge to say if the motor is significantly damaged.

Hopefully some of our more experienced members can chime in.

 

Awhile back when I had low KCLV numbers I was told that typically any IAT above 80 or so would probably result in your KCLV to drop. So IAT are pretty important. You'd be shocked how fast just idling on a warm day with no airflow can cause your IAT to climb to 110+.

 

Sorry to hijack but had a question regarding KCLV/KFV .

Does altitude affect your KCLV? Where i live, Im at 4200ft above sea level and can never seem to get my KCLV higher than 19.7(my KFV is always -3 and sometimes drops to -3.7, but rarely). I only use Mobil or Shell 91 octane (im in socal so thats all i have). All regular maintenance done up to 75k miles (waiting to do a transfluid swap soon). NA ISF w/Catback exhaust and HPS elbow w/AFE Dryflow filter.

 

From what we've gathered, absolutely. Try blending e85 with 91 octane, perhaps an e30 or e40 mix, that should bump up the octane to around 96, your car will love it.

 

I'm curious about this "tick" you developed on the passenger side cam area. Is it a constant rotational light "knock" sound? Is it more prominent at idle?

 

Thanks for your reply. I read online for every 1000ft an NA engine loses 3% horsepower. So i figured my lower KCLV was probably in conjunction with the altitude and crappy Cali 91 octane. Ill definitely try a fuel blend and go from there.

Hope you are able sort out the engine issues you are having. Very informative btw.

 

Your post says you are on 40% ethanol. You should have zero knock unless you IAT's are insane.

 

Right, makes me think it's picking up something mechanical.

What happens when you reset the ECU or install a new tune? Where is KCLV at immediately? Also, do you do 6th gear wide open pulls starting at ~1500RPM to set/increase the KCLV?

I'm assuming it didn't do this before the SC? Or maybe you didn't notice?

 

Reset or new tune goes right back to 15, high load pulls it will gain, but will knock on low load bringing it down into the 10's or less. Don't want to push it and advance the timing and further the issue. Tried to grab a video of the knock i'll post it in the original post and here

 

Just a thought but have you ever had the valley plate resealed? My brother in law is a service trainer for VW and when I was doing my valley plate he told me to make sure the knock sensors were properly torqued. The reason being is they are piezoelectric, meaning they produce voltage under pressure. So if not properly torqued the signal could be out of spec so to speak